The Instigator
samantha1957
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Truth_seeker
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

God?????

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Truth_seeker
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/1/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 764 times Debate No: 61150
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (26)
Votes (1)

 

samantha1957

Con

For years I believed what I was told about how "god" wants us to prosper and be successful and happy. All I had to do was read the "bible" go to "church" and believe it all. I did all of it plus more. I paid my tithes I went to church I prayed daily I got involved in church functions. You name it I did it all.. I went to weekend retreats everything possible.. I gave it my all.. and yet years upon years of praying and believing some of my prayers were for the same things.. I tried big and small prayers.. simple and complex.. I tried several ways of praying. . And yet nothing changed. Nothing happened... I didn't change my suffering my families suffering.. non of it.. how can I believe in a "god" that supposedly wants such great things for us and to live in peace while we are on earth when I've done every single thing I was told and nothing got better.. I spent the first 15 years of my life not even knowing there was a possibility that a "god" existed.. then spent the next 15 years believing with everything in me around me in side and out... I was happier more peaceful less stressed and more successful when I didn't know about "god".. since I learned of this I've sacrificed and lost so much.. things people time that I will never get back.. if in fact this "god" is real then why the hell am I forced to live a daily hell? They say all the spiritual battles are the lords and yet I feel as though its burdened and hardened my own heart going through it all.. I feel as though its all lies.. everything about "god" just so these so called churches full of judgemental people can take your money for them selves.. I do still find my self wanting to pray . Probably cause I spent half my life doing it.. its habbit now.. but nothing good ever comes from it.. I don't care about science or what the bible says.. all I care about is "results.. " so for all you people out there.. show me real results.. and tell me why I live in hell.. and why should I continue doing these things for a supposed heaven .. if I have to live every day in hell any way.. why not just do what ever the heck I want and depend souly on myself and not have to suffer cause of it.. I would have more money more family more friends.. more fun.. more time.. I would have everything the bible promises and yet not from believing lol just the opposite actually..
Share your thoughts on this ... I'm interested in seeing others view. . Thanks
Truth_seeker

Pro

First off, what you want to do is to reflect on what a relationship with God is and where you stand on. Whoever told you that all you had to do was go to church, read the Bible, tithe, go to retreats, etc. is wrong because that's not what makes you a Christian. The Bible doesn't say that being a Christian leads to prosperity. On the contrary, it leads to suffering. I as a Christian suffer every day, but I know that I am redeemed.

Romans 3:23-24

"23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

We are condemned because we have failed to keep God's law. We are saved and receive a change of heart by accepting Jesus and that makes us Christians

V. 25 -26

"25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

Ephesians 2:8

"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God."

Now you must realize that the purpose of prayer is so that God's power can work in your life. God brings suffering into your life so that you can see his glory. I illustrate with an example :

John 9:1-3

"Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

3 Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."

By the power of Jesus Christ, we are relieved of our suffering because their purpose is so that he can work in our lives.

1 Peter 3:12

"12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their prayers;
But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."

Jesus also said that we would suffer, but he gave us the power to endure.

John 16:33

"33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

Try praying that Jesus would change your life and invite him to be your lord and savior.
Debate Round No. 1
samantha1957

Con

1st off I want to say that this is my first time ever trying anything like this. So sorry if I don't live up to some peoples standards of what a debate should be..

2nd. Your argument is that the bible doesn't say anything about prosperity.. however your wrong!
Jeremiah 29:11
"For I know the ans I have for you." Declares the Lord. "Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Proverbs 16:3
Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed.

Isaiah 41:10
So do not fear, for I am with you, do not be dismayed for I am your God. I will Strengthen you and help you I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Deuteronomy 8:18
But remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth. And so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers as it is today.

And last but not least.
Mark 11:24
Therefore I tell you, what ever you ask for in prayer, and believe that you've received, and it will be yours.

See so many promises made. To help us to prosper us to hold us up and also to carry us when we are down. And yet nothing good came of being Christian.
Believe me I did it all. I believed with my entire being. I did everything the bible said. Every piece of advice I was given. All of it.

I prayed one prayer for over a decade. And still nothing. What I'm saying is that God is sitting up there with yes and no stamps and every time some one prays he chooses. Its all up to god. So if we suffer its because he has chosen not to help.

So how can I believe in a god like that. A god who doesn't keep his word to lift you up, to help, to prosper you. Because he's not real.

Anyone can try to build a relationship with him. I've been there. But it doesn't mean its real.
Truth_seeker

Pro

Jer. 29 is focused on how God brought his people back from captivity

Jer. 29:10-14

"10 For thus says the Lord: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place. 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will bring you back from your captivity; I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will bring you to the place from which I cause you to be carried away captive."

While yes it is true that God has plans to prosper us, we still must suffer before we experience his ultimate plan.

The Proverbs aren't absolute, they are general statements of how things are, but they don't always apply. For example, Prov. 16:7 "When people's lives please the LORD, even their enemies are at peace with them." This doesn't always apply to every situation.

The Bible also says that we are to pray according to his will 1 John 5:14

"And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us."

There's a difference between believing in what the Bible says and trusting in God to fulfill what he says.

I simply want you to ask yourself a few questions:

1) Have you trusted God with your life?

2) Have you confessed your sins to God and swore to never do them again?

3) Do you believe that he died for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day?

4) Have you given your life to Jesus by faith and not by works?

If the answer is no then you need to do it whenever you are ready. I hope what i said helps. If it didn't, PM me and we can talk about it more.
Debate Round No. 2
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
Yes, Samantha they do. But when I voter writes "balancing out points" as a reason for their vote it is invalid unless the debaters designed it as a standard in Round 1 opening statements. He felt sorry for you, and gave you sympathy points disguised as fair play, but it wasn't. Why did I give you Conduct? Because you responded to Pro with coherency in attempts to discredit his claims. You didn't get stupid with retaliations like Michelle does so often.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
I very seldom vote. I am on here to express an opinion and to stir thinking.
Posted by Imalwaysthesmartone 2 years ago
Imalwaysthesmartone
I don't have the points to vote and even if i did I'm not sure I would. You asked for opinions, here's mine. What you wrote as your opening sounded to me more like someone crying for help. Also someone who either has or is losing faith. I can't tell you what you should do but I can tell you what I did. My journey towards what I believe was a long one. Until I got serious about 20 years ago I had no clue. My suggestion start reading the Old Testament and try to read it without preconceived answers. This will take a while. Then start to ask questions and find the answers in the bible not the new testament just the old. You probably know where I'm going with this but you might actually find what your looking for without the contamination of the new testament.
Posted by samantha1957 2 years ago
samantha1957
Who decides whether or not a persons vote is adequate or not? Don't they have a right to vote for whom ever they choose? Is that not the point of this?
Posted by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
Truth_seeker
lol what's all this "balancing out points" stuff? When did people start doing this? Whatever happened to using the "report vote" feature?
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
Now why is my vote eliminated? I didn't pad points, but administered them fairly.
Posted by Osiris_Rosenthorne 2 years ago
Osiris_Rosenthorne
Sorry, but I don't know what smarter about life means? Is it smarter about the processes of life, or how to live a good life? Now, why would I care what a Hebrew word means? It has absolutely no baring on what such a deity is, any more than what you name your child defines him or her. In fact, you've really just reinforced what I've said about patriarchy. As for conceding to god, you've again just proven my point, you have accepted slavery, by choosing always to obey. As for Rousseau not impressing you, for some reason, I doubt he cares. He, unlike god, never wanted unending praise and obedience on the pain of death, and nor do I. We much prefer discourse in disagreement than giving out damnations.
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
"balancing out points"

Is this the job of other debaters? To award points to a debater because that person didn't flesh out their argument? Your action, sir, is akin to anyone who credits Pro with points for more convincing argument, someone must balance out the points in Con's favor.
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
Strong's linguistic analysis:
http://biblehub.com...

Young's Literal Translation
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Flawed understanding of the Bible leads to ridicule & disbelief of the Bible, and to God.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Samantha.Mary sat at the feet of Jesus and heard his word.Martha complained about much serving. Mary chose that better part. Martha could have set a bowl of beans if front of Jesus and told him, " if you want all these people to eat, you will have to do something with these beans. I am sitting at your feet and hear your word. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.". Feeding the 5000 with a kids lunch comes to mind. You seem to have gone to all these councilers instead of following in Jesus's footsteps in the word of God. There is only one person God sent to the earth to suffer, that is Jesus.And he suffered so you do not have to. Somewhere you missed it.Probably in your words you let death in. The word says life and death are in the power of the tongue.You are free to sit in your misery if you so choose, but you are also free to put on the whole armour of God. Which will quench ALL the fiery darts of the wicked.You have to choose between your feelings and God's word. They can't both be true.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
samantha1957Truth_seekerTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: SEE RFD. The Jeremiah 29:11 verse isn't about prosperity aka personal wealth. The Hebrew word erroneously translated prosperity is "shalom" and means peace, welfare, completeness. My point is: flawed translations of the Scriptures & misinterpretations of them are the leading cause for why people reject the Bible & why Christians become Atheists. Christianity has deceived the world. The Bible is an Israelite book, written primarily for Israelites & their descendents & converted Gentiles--not for the world. The disciples asked Jesus why does he speak to them in parables; he said "Because to you it has been given to know and understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven but to the world it has not." This single verse should make all so-called Christian "intellectual thinkers" wake up & acknowledge that Biblical topics are only for Israelites & converts, and its laws don't apply to anyone else UNTIL Jesus returns ON--the day of Salvation.