Godel cant tells us what makes a maths statement truethus his theorem is meaningless.
Voting Style:  Open  Point System:  7 Point  
Started:  6/3/2014  Category:  Science  
Updated:  2 years ago  Status:  Post Voting Period  
Viewed:  810 times  Debate No:  56012 
Australia's leading erotic poet colin leslie dean points out Godel cant
tell us what makes a mathematical statement truethus his theorem is meaningless http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com... Godel says there are true statements which can be proven http://en.wikipedia.org... "Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. In particular, for any consistent, effectively generated formal theory that proves certain basic arithmetic *truths*, there is an arithmetical statementthat is *true*,[1] but not provable in the theory." note Godel says .".. there is an arithmetical statement that is *true.." but Godel cant tell us what makes a maths statement true Peter Smith the Cambridge expert on Godel says http://groups.google.com... . quote "G"del didn't rely on the notion of truth" thus godels incompleteness theorem is meaningless as Godel cant tell us what true statements are thus his theorem is meaningless I've previously debated this topic with my opponent, but not very well. I'll attempt tackle this again, hopefully with more clarity. My opponent claims that "Godel cant tells us what makes a maths statement truethus his theorem is meaningless." [sic] His argument, then, appears to be as follows: P1: A meaningful theorem must tell us what makes a maths statement true. P2: Gödel's theorem does not tell us what makes a maths statement true. C: Gödel's theorem is not meaningful. 

the debate is very simple
just tell us what Godel says makes a maths statement true if you cant then the term "true " in this statement is meaningless "...there is an arithmetical statement that is *true*..." thus his theorem is meaningless In the previous round I argued that Gödel proves there are true statements which cannot be proven by showing that neither a statement nor its negation is true. Since one or the other must be true, he proved that all mathematics using a small bit of number theory is incomplete. I argued that this result has had important impacts on philosophy in general, the philosophy of mathematics, and mathematics itself  having been called one of the most important results proved in the 20th century. My opponent has dropped all arguments. Definition of "True" My opponent now argues that truth as used by Gödel is ambiguous or undefined, and so his theorem is meaningless. But Gödel doesn't use truth differently than any other philosopher or mathematician. Fundamental laws of truth state that either a statement or its negation must be true and Gödel proved that for some mathematical statements neither the statement nor its negation can be proved. Thus he proved that there are some true mathematical statements which cannot be proven to be true. An example of such a statement is the continuum hypothesis, which can neither be proven nor disproven with the axioms of set theory. [4] I have shown that Gödel's theorem is accurate and there exists examples of its truth, and that it has meaningful applications to philosphy and mathematics; Gödel's theorem is meaningful  the reslution is negated. References: [4] http://en.wikipedia.org... 

I must win this debate for 1 reason
I maintain that Godels theorem is meaningless as he cant tell us what makes a maths statement true all con has to do to refute my claim and win is tell us what Godel says makes a maths statement true which he has not done thus thus my claim stands and I must win this debate my question to con was "just tell us what Godel says makes a maths statement true if you cant then the term "true " in this statement is meaningless "...there is an arithmetical statement that is *true*..." thus his theorem is meaningless" con has not said what Godels says makes a maths statement true thus my claim stands and I must win this debate Gödel's theorem should not be expected to define mathematical truth because he treats it no differently than any other mathematician. The idea that there are mathematical systems which are incomplete is hardly surprising; for example, Euclidean geometry without the parallel postulate cannot prove the vast majority of interesting geometric proofs true or false. What Gödel showed was that the incompleteness of mathematics extends far further than most mathematicians had thought, encompassing all systems which contain a bit of number theory. Alone, this is an interesting conclusion with implications for mathematical logic and the philosophy of mathematics. Gödel's theorem should not be expected to define mathematical truth because he treats it no differently than any other mathematician. The idea that there are mathematical systems which are incomplete is hardly surprising; for example, Euclidean geometry without the parallel postulate cannot prove the vast majority of interesting geometric proofs true or false. What Gödel showed was that the incompleteness of mathematics extends far further than most mathematicians had thought, encompassing all systems which contain a bit of number theory. Alone, this is an interesting conclusion with implications for mathematical logic and the philosophy of mathematics. But, as I have argued, Gödel's theorem also has meaningful applications to general philosophy, discussions of artificial intelligence, and one’s ability to know truth, and it is referenced by various philosophers and writers as I cited earlier. My opponent has dropped this argument. 
shakuntala  Enji  Tied  

Agreed with before the debate:      0 points  
Agreed with after the debate:      0 points  
Who had better conduct:      1 point  
Had better spelling and grammar:      1 point  
Made more convincing arguments:      3 points  
Used the most reliable sources:      2 points  
Total points awarded:  0  6 
Seems like an arbitrary "hoop" that has no impact on the significance of a theory.
Kinda like "well if godel can't eat 10 gallons of chocolate, then his theory is meaningless".
You see there is a reason in the last 50 years everyone has called Godel a genius, there is mathematical proof for it. If you would like I think there is a really easy essay on it, type Godels Theorem on academia.edu.