The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
CalinMarie
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Gods existence Proved in Creation of Atom and DNA

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
FollowerofChrist1955
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/24/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 996 times Debate No: 87185
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (33)
Votes (1)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Premise: That the existence of God heretofore being labeled a matter of opinion. In point of fact is not. But in fact requires mankind to willfully deny Him, thereby rightly showing themselves worthy to receive the due penalty for their error.

Premise: That God's creation of the fundamental elements DNA and The Atom which is and has given rise and encompasses the totality of Life's creation and being, from Earth to the minutest of creatures is self evident, and cannot be challenged at any level with regard to INTELLIGENT DESIGN, without the need of resorting to the ludicrous! Is Hard evidence of His existence!

Premise: That no justification exist which refutes a Super Intellect necessary for the creation of DNA and Atom, and that one must leave the realm of reason and enter into sheer ludicrous speculation to even attempt to suggest any Form of randomness in its application.

Premise: That each soul upon the Earth must review each premise from their own sound mind and reason- As God holds each person individually responsible to seek His face, and no eternal sources of man shall exonerate any one individual from the choice they and they alone make.

Premise: That a being able to create so advanced a molecule as the DNA/Atom, could most definitely AND easily CREATE other dimensions heretofore known as Heaven, Hell and the Lake of Fire!

Intelligently Honest observers of Science, can no longer ignore the facts of INTELLIGENT Design or the Beginnings of the Earth founded on Failed and Flawed reasoning which at best, merely REFUSES to acknowledge the existence of an intelligence greater there own! A choice that must be made by each individual soul for which each will be held accountable.

Premise: That no Scientic mind from creation to present can replicate from scratch either the DNA nor Atom. Although being presented the coding themselves from their creator. The undeniable Fact is the whole of our Scientific Knowledge continues to this day to use 2 bit coding (0's and 1's) because Man cannot create 3 dimensional 4 bit code, even when it has BEEN provided BY God WITHIN all of Life!

Premise:
Further Scientist to the present age continue to marvel at the indescribable complexity of the Atom which comprises the whole of the Earth and beyond AND YET, is NOT found or Considered to BE solid (tangible)!

States of matter describe the collective arrangement and properties of molecules or atoms. A single atom cannot be any of those because it is the base component of each. Atoms are comprised of small subatomic particles (which can be further divided), and these particles have mass - it is not necessarily true though to say that they are tangible. It's visually handy to say that protons, neutrons, and electrons are small spheres, but it is not true.

Is a building a single brick? A solid is the interaction of atoms; like a "crowd" is the interaction of people. The crowd isn't just one person, or ten people but many people interacting together.

What is one particular atom? What is one particular galaxy? It is many many things, and those things are many many things, so so so many things. These two questions are of equal complexity. Here is how

"An atom is .......... and ........... . (nucleus in the middle and electrons feeding towards it). "

"A galaxy is ....... and ........ . (black hole in the middle and stars feeding towards it)."

Does that mean you are like a Universe built of many baby galaxies (atoms)? Yes don't tell anyone though because it will only scare them.

Oxford Dictionaries: tan"gi"ble. ADJECTIVE
1.perceptible by touch: "the atmosphere of neglect and abandonment was almost tangible"
synonyms: touchable " palpable " material " physical " real "
substantial " corporeal " solid " concrete " visible " noticeable " actual " definite " clear " clear-cut " distinct " manifest " evident " unmistakable " perceptible " discernible

NOUN: (tangibles) 1.a thing that is perceptible by touch.

Premise: That no one of any position may argue this position from the DNA and Atom standpoint only and must resort to the opinions of scientist OUTSIDE these two elements-which at best is based on sheer speculation. Further that if looked at rationally serves only to point them BACK to the miraculous functions of the DNA strands encoding, originally designed by God.

Premise: That the whole of the theory of evolution not only avoids the question of intelligent design, but continues to this day, to sell a theory replete with contradiction, to the level that even the NAME: Theory of Evolution- is suggestive of an absence of real HARD Science, resorting instead, to abject falsehoods to sell itself. As of this writing Evolution remains theory as it is readily defined in the whole of English Dictionaries. Evolutionist can ONLY argue from OUTSIDE DNA/Atom existence. That way they can use more imagination.

Premise: there remains to this Day no news headline from present to antiquity that announced Evolution as a Fact of Science, continuing to refer to itself as Theory in ALL scientific circles and texts!

Charles Darwin, - Origin of Species, Chapter Difficulties
""To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I Freely Confess, Absurd In The Highest Degree."

Even Darwin's own admission FAILS to discourage the evolutionist of today: Citing nonsense without facts, fiction without Hard Scientific Evidence, attempting to use the microscopic as a decree of victory, yet the Dictionaries of today continue to place Evolution squarely in the category of Theory! Continuing the illusion that some skeleton (the fossil record was available in Darwin's Day) which resembles something else as proof positive of one species giving rise to another, and such nonsense as this. Time passing has only produced the discoveries of species for which man was not AWARE, and has never produced a single fossil that shows one species giving rise to another outside of absolute speculation. No new species are emerging only becoming extinct.

perhaps the best evidence of this is the foolishness of man evolving from apes, when Hard Science has already proven that Apes and Man cannot impregnate one another-WHY, because 2 different species cannot produce offspring- biology 101. And yet the entirety of the educational system remains undeterred proclaiming Human's came from apes? If we were from apes then the could concieve a breed of human/ape off-spring.... Right?
CalinMarie

Con

I will begin this debate by addressing all of your premises.
P1. That is simply a religious belief.
P2. That is called evolution and is scientifically proven.
P3. We have not learned exactly where they come from, however making discoveries in science does not come fast. We did not even learn about evolution or light until a few centuries ago. We can not leave reason, until it is proven there is no explanation for them existing.
P4. This is also a religious belief. I would get into detail if you prefer, however I will not until I am given evidence.
P5. Once again, there is no proof there is a god. This is another religious view.
If you are referring to creationism when you say "Inteligent design", you should know that it is proven with various examples (due to first argument, I will give examples in later debates.
Atoms and galaxies are not the same. Atoms are in everything though. We are made of atoms. Not galaxies.
I am skipping some premises, because they look repeated.
Your last paragraph is completely wrong. Apes and humans have not been mated in all possible ways, by the way so it may be possible (and possible will, considering we are 98-99% alike to them). I'll give you some examples of species made from different species: zonkeys, mules, etc.
Sorry for the short length of this paragraph. My next arguments will be more detailed and supported by more evidence.
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

P1. That is simply a religious belief.
My response: How did you come to that conclusion? If you"ve NOT sought Him yourself? The real truth then based on your own statement is you like the majority of humanity are IN FACT guilty as charged by God. Let all who read this know you stand condemned, proclaim Him nonexistent without looking for Him. So premise #1 IS TRUE, and I"m deeply sorry for you! Thankfully it is not too late, there is still time. How much, I don"t know.

P2. That is called evolution and is scientifically proven.
My response: http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov...
Quote" DNA, or deoxyribonucleic acid, is the hereditary material in humans and almost all other organisms. Nearly every cell in a person"s body has the same DNA. Most DNA is located in the cell nucleus (where it is called nuclear DNA), but a small amount of DNA can also be found in the mitochondria (where it is called mitochondrial DNA or mtDNA).

The information in DNA is stored as a code made up of four chemical bases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T). Human DNA consists of about 3 billion bases, and more than 99 percent of those bases are the same in all people. The order, or sequence, of these bases determines the information available for building and maintaining an organism, similar to the way in which letters of the alphabet appear in a certain order to form words and sentences.

DNA bases pair up with each other, A with T and C with G, to form units called base pairs. Each base is also attached to a sugar molecule and a phosphate molecule. Together, a base, sugar, and phosphate are called a nucleotide. Nucleotides are arranged in two long strands that form a spiral called a double helix. The structure of the double helix is somewhat like a ladder, with the base pairs forming the ladder"s rungs and the sugar and phosphate molecules forming the vertical sidepieces of the ladder.

An important property of DNA is that it can replicate, or make copies of itself. Each strand of DNA in the double helix can serve as a pattern for duplicating the sequence of bases. This is critical when cells divide because each new cell needs to have an exact copy of the DNA present in the old cell." End of quote

I went to the geneticist to determine WHAT it is and not what their interpretation of where it came from. Since it is MY SOUL on the line, I would prefer to make my own conclusions, based on available data not tainted by speculation. So based on just WHAT DNA is I can see, quite clearly that it is:

1.4 Bit Code- since The greatest minds of our time can only create 2 bit code as of this writing I can only assume based on available data that- DNA"s existence is REAL, and very OBVIOUSLY intelligent in its design or structure. Unless of course your suggesting that scientist need to prove their intelligent too? I do not mean that as a poke, just a statement I believe is indeed factual". Yes?

2.Based just upon factual data presented above- It would appear MORE rational, and certainly wiser to lean toward Gods existence rather than against. In consideration of course that THIS intelligence set WITHIN its Coding the ABILITY of its created organisms to adjust and conform its structure and maintenance thereby increasing its chances of survival.- in case you missed its implication- God placed within the DNA strand the organisms ability to evolve to its surrounding. Did you get that? CAN"T HAVE evolving WITHOUT Gods code!

P3. We have not learned exactly where they come from, however making discoveries in science does not come fast. We did not even learn about evolution or light until a few centuries ago. We cannot leave reason, until it is proven there is no explanation for them existing.

My response: Before we throw the baby out with the bath water let"s take a closer look at your response. So you admit man doesn"t know where DNA/Atoms come from, but believe it"s MORE reasonable to deny there IS a God, in the hopes (hope comes from God by the way, atheist HAVE no hope!) that at some time, someday, somewhere- Some theorist is going to give you HIS opinion of WHERE they come from? Hmmm". so what happens if you die in the meantime and because you simply choose to suppress the truth, cause you don"t feel like searching yourself, your just going to throw caution to the wind? Does this truly appear to be the best course of action?

https://js082.k12.sd.us...

Quote" Atoms are mostly empty space. If the nucleus of an atom had the diameter of a dime, the outer edge of the atom would be about 50 yards away.

If a proton were enlarged to the size of the head of a pin, the outer edge of the atom would be about 100 meters away.
And if the protons and neutrons were a centimeter in diameter;
Then the electrons would be less than the diameter of a hair; and
The entire atom's diameter would be greater than the length of 30 football fields!
If an atom were as large as a football stadium, the nucleus would be the size of a small ladybug crawling across the 50-yard line. In spite of this size difference, virtually an of the mass of an atom is concentrated in its nucleus. One electron, which has a negative charge, weighs only 1/1836 as much as the lightest of all nuclei, that of the hydrogen atom (proton).
In addition, all the particles (protons, neutrons, and electrons) are constantly in motion." unquote

WOW, talks about complex- suffice it to say- the atom is a miraculous creation. Since it is also intangible, meaning it cannot be touched by human hands independent of its combined self (large groups coming together and joined). It eists by itself as a single Atom but can combine with others to BECOME tangible to the creatures of creation, but in reality it by its structure remains MOSTLY EMPTY SPACE!

So get this, IF the atom was to return to its single state then the floor your standing on would cease to exist " did you get that? It would vanish? Okay IF God created it (Atom) which since no scientist can dispute that He didn"t, and you have not genuinely sought Him either. Could a being of such power not have also created a Heaven, Hell and Lake of Fire somewhere else, beyond our ability to see?

Matthew 23:33,34"
33"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell? 34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Revelation 20:15
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Your Right that you CAN wait for more theories to emerge, I"m just convinced for me it"s not the WISEST course of action!

P4. This is also a religious belief. I would get into detail if you prefer, however I will not until I am given evidence.
My response: It is you who must prove Him or disprove Him for yourself! You have a mind, you are intelligent, the data is readily available, stop reading their interpretations, you can make your own, since it"s your soul that hangs in the balance. I think the Judges say it best- ignorance of the law is no excuse. Still not too late though, time is up when we die or when Jesus comes back ". But that"s a whole different subject.

P5. Once again, there is no proof there is a god. This is another religious view.
A.Again being honest you don"t know because you haven"t SEARCHED with or even without
An open mind! So you cannot say that there is or isn"t evidence with any credibility. You simply cannot say something is untrue without and honest investigation from your own perspective. Understand that everyone IS going to be held accountable who through ignorance (lack of knowledge or Information), prejudice (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience: and declare God doesn't exist! That is misleading. The definitions are from oxford .

B.zonkeys, mules, etc., https://en.wikipedia.org...(genus)
"Equus (genus) Equus is a genus of mammals in the family Equidae, which includes horses, asses, and zebras. Within Equidae, Equus is the only recognized extant genus, comprising seven living species.

Hybrids
Equines species can crossbreed with each other. The most common hybrid is the mule, a cross between a male donkey and a female horse. With rare exceptions, these hybrids are sterile and cannot reproduce.[17] A related hybrid, a hinny, is a cross between a male horse and a female donkey.[18] Other hybrids include the zorse, a cross between a zebra and a horse[19] and a zedonk, a hybrid of a zebra and a donkey.[20] In areas where Gr"vy's zebras are sympatric with plains zebras, fertile hybrids do occur."

donkeyroo, now that would be something, a Humanzee, you"d go to jail yes, BUT you would be famous, you"d certainly go to Hell for messing with Gods creation. I must tell you of what happened to the 200 angels who corrupted humanity (causing the need for Flood) and the punishment that they received that was soooo harsh that even the angel Michael and all other angels we"re trembling. It"s fascinating "" but perhaps we can discuss that in comments section. It"s sitting on the edge of seat stuff!

Oh as for human ape compatibility : please stop at the facts, do not listen to individual interpretation, your smart you don"t need someone else to interpret the data ". It"s obvious.

https://answersingenesis.org...
CalinMarie

Con

P2: I am more than aware of how DNA works. "Unless of course your suggesting that scientist need to prove their intelligent too? I do not mean that as a poke, just a statement I believe is indeed factual". Yes?" First off, your wording is odd. It's hard to make out sometimes, but I am assuming that you're saying that I don't believe the scientists' work on DNA..?
2. Science is constantly improving all of the time, you cannot assume the answer is God whenever we do not know the answer to something. If Dickens in the late 1800s thought like that, the theory of evolution would've never been founded. Get what I am saying?
3. It is not an opinion if it is based on fact. It is a theory that one will come up with to find the source of atoms and DNA come from. You state "hope comes from God by the way, atheist HAVE no hope", does this mean we have no hope for anything? Because, as an atheist and knowing many other atheists, I know for certain that we have hope for many things...
*I have skipped a few, because many repeat the same ideals*
I do not respect the way you're writing this. It comes off pretty rude, by the way. Especially considering, the only "evidence" you have is bible quotes and how DNA and atoms work.
P5. You know nothing about me. I'm not going to give you my life story, but let's just say that I have gone through a lot of soul searching. I wasn't always an atheist.
For the last part, I do not make my own interpretations. I know by fact that a human and ape crossbreeding experiment has happened. It did not work the first time, but it was stopped by the government.
http://dangerousminds.net...

I do not have many words, but it is difficult to fight science and religion.
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

My apologies for my wording. The premise is not on the scientist Themselves, Intelligence or otherwise, the sole premise was and is that the complexity of the DNA strand undeniably suggest a power at work, far exceeding the intelligence of the scientific community as a whole. Expressly because our greatest minds cannot replicate nor create a DNA strand even with the use of our most sophisticated supercomputers. The debate specifically stated that the existence of God is evidenced in the super intelligent complexity of DNA and the Atoms. If you've NOT researched the existence of God through personal study and reflection, how can you submit a lucid argument. Please, tell me if you have researched YOURSELF whether God exists and have personal knowledge of the subject otherwise I will have to terminate this debate and resubmit in order to obtain an opponent who speaks from experienced study and reflection of the subject matter rather than total opinion?
CalinMarie

Con

Total opinion? All of your arguments are just bible quotes and bible beliefs. A little hypocritical, don't you think? I've been Catholic and Christian, I'm not biased. I have knowledge of DNA and atoms (vast amounts). I do not see why you want my to give you a religious life story or something, but if you want one- I'll give it to you. I was raised Catholic and then received the sacrament of confirmation. I was then a Christian who tried to connect with a God through prayer. I became an atheist in 8th grade. I've done a lot of soul searching to come to that conclusion. I didn't "disconnect" because I was against Him or anything of the sort. I left it, because the idea of a god sounds completely improbable. Scientists have tried to find where atoms have come from, but making major scientific discoveries take time. And, you need to have the patience. If you want a Catholic or Christian to debate you, you could've specified.
Sorry for the short and late response.
Debate Round No. 3
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

CalinMarie, please read this ..... and AFTER you blow steam, please read it again, don't look for insults cause there are none only truths you have as yet to understand or find. I care about your eternal soul, which is in danger whether you believe it or not. Remember despite how some of this sounds it is not insults, its simple observation that you yourself could see IF you wanted too?
in answer to length of time and shortness of response:
No problem, I"m not always able to get to computer, as other factors, must at times, take precedence.

I"m sorry, but facts are what facts are ".. you"ve NEVER been Catholic nor Christian! You see you can"t claim being something simply because you walked into a building. You may have indeed attended Sunday school services, and you may have attended Sunday school services for years ". That don"t MAKE you Catholic, nor Christian does it?. The cliche" is: to putting a pink bow on a sows ear don"t make it a poodle. I"m sorry that you walked away BEFORE you could honestly have sought God. He was there, you were simply NOT looking!

Matthew 13 describes people like you. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:"Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:""You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people"s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them."

Matthew 13:18 "Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

It falls to you to determine which of the verses IS you: You may exclude verse 23 because you do not BELIEVE in God, so that lets you out of 23. Again, it"s not to late to go back and search for Him again, but time IS running out fast! Not just for you, but for all sinners who have denied Christs atoning sacrifice.

AS to our debate? You cannot DISPROVE in any way that God did not create the DNA nor atom and even your own sources, that would be the scientists themselves agree on only one thing, Their existence shows intelligence, not randomness, complexity far exceeding their comprehension at present!

Deoxyribonucleic acid is a molecule that carries most of the genetic instructions (suggest intelligence INSTRUCTIONS) used in the development, functioning and reproduction of all known living organisms and many viruses.( not a direct quote) https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov.... I think that since you have to be a quantum physicist to UNDERSTAND the atomic structure of atoms, pretty much confirms its not random either. So in closing you cannot dispute ANY of my assertions with any kind of reputable facts, certainly not formulated by you, as you have yet to research on your own, and your scientist are still centuries from determining it for themselves either.

I appeal to you to go back and forget DNA/Atom, go back and research God. Your eternal soul is FAR more important than ANY debate topic. Start by asking God to show you that He exists ".. He will, if you ask earnestly!

God says you know He exists, by creation itself. I can attest to the sensations of something superior in the construct of everyday Life. During those times when my soul was at rest, when I held my daughter, or my son, when I looked at the beauty in the reflection of their eyes, as they held tightly to my fingers. I felt it again in my grand babies. I see God in the trees, the stars, the moon, the green grass, the tiny insects that crawl round about me. I see Him in the multitudes of beautiful flowers each spring, in the feeling of the cool breeze. I feel Him everyday as I go to and from work or relaxation, I know I exists because of Him. And IF I can feel Him IN CREATION as He said I could ...... I also know that the worse of the Bible is also true. Look around you you can see for yourself the spiraling out of control, the vast increase in meteors appearing in the night sky.

The earthquakes of enormous power being unleashed is areas that have never HAD earthquakes before. Increase in tornadoes,tsunamis, increase in violence ..... it's not getting better it is growing much, much worse and with each passing day you hear and see more signs of the times. God is not only real but has called an end to this world that has begun to sin continuously. It is found in the Book of Revelation, and although no one can say when, we have been given eyes with which to see, brains with which to consider, and senses which sound an internal alarm. As said before .... there IS time, but how much?
CalinMarie

Con

CalinMarie forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Does it NOT strike all who read these debates as peculiar that scientist after scientist are in full agreement of the sheer complexity, intelligent appearance in design of both the DNA and the Atoms compositions. Have even successfully determined that they ARE of a mathematical construct that can be calculated, but thus far are too sophisticated for the science of today to manipulate much less master? Yet, simply REFUSE to acknowledge the intelligence behind this mastery of mathematical genius?

Does it NOT strike you as particularly stranger that the vast majority of Human kind is SO desperate to believe that they are not going to BE PUNISHED that they will grasp at even the most absurd of explanations for life"s existence, in the hopes that science will be able to somehow absolve them of the debt they MUST pay?

God is the one who says, He has made Himself known to human kind and SHOWN His invisible qualities IN HIS CREATION! That is WHY you can not only see the DNA strands and the Atoms, but understand, their purpose AND their meaning. It is BECAUSE you can see these things and suppress the knowledge of Him for a lie ". You are being held accountable.

Is it NOT absolute madness, to disavow a Creator, so gracious that He provided you WITH the means with which to BE FORGIVEN! Christ died so YOU do not have too. God even ALLOWS YOU to call upon Him that He can show you His existence FOR yourself. I met God in 1980, He provided me with all the proof I will ever need, He demonstrated His sovereignty to me in that while I was yet a sinner, Christ died for me! This was not a matter of a person"s opinion, it was not even a matter of my opinion, He manifested Himself in ways I can never explain away, place to chance, set to dream states. Oh yes potential brothers and sisters ". God is VERY REAL! Don"t take my word, seek Him for yourself! But under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should you IGNORE Him ". The consequence of which ".. is horrifying and eternal!
CalinMarie

Con

I forfeit due to pro's religious bias (and religious ramblings).
(:
Debate Round No. 5
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
God has been proven to be Real and Evolution a Lie in Debate" The Proof that God exists IS Mans unique existence."
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Let all who read this know that God is Lord! No man escapes Him, His truth lives on in all of His creation,
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

The Final Judgment
"13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom (homosexuals) and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)" 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority.
Posted by CalinMarie 1 year ago
CalinMarie
I may not post another argument, because I find you irritational.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
You see your faith was built upon sand and not upon the rock. You lost faith because you placed conditions upon your love. God did not fail you? You failed Him! You based obedience on a feel good attitude, you placed it on everything going right in your life in order to believe.

God says: They hate you because they hated me first! They persecute you because they persecuted me first.
2 Tim 3:12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

John 15:20 Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

Acts 14:22
strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said.

2 Corinthians 4:9
persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.

Titus 2:12
It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,

You see CalinMarie, persecution is what refines our soul, tempering the will of the believer, quickening us to immeasurable hieghts of love and tolerance in the face of all adversity, to the Glory of God. We learn to BEND instead of BREAK.

You may have broken, BUT you do not have to REMAIN broken, God IS still there for you! Go back to the Cross, this may be nothing more than a growing process we ALL go through, I've a feeling that you are NOT Lost ...... only on a path of enlightenment, a path meant to quicken your growth to a more stable relationship with Christ. Christ never leaves His children, He stands firm and just waits for US .... to turn around where He waits to embrace you!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
I'm truly sorry CalinMarie .... I did NOT say that ..... God did.
Mathew13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
""You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15
For this people"s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them."[a]

Matthew 13:19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

You see CalinMarie a true believer who has submitted to Christ NEVER CAN LOSE FAITH! Because you cannot lose what you never had, and I'm sorry. BUT the good news is it's NOT too late.
Posted by CalinMarie 1 year ago
CalinMarie
How dare you say that just because I lost faith, I was never a Catholic or Christian in the first place. You know nothing about me, this has gone from a just debate to bashing and I don't think want to be a part of it.
I did accept God in my heart and I loved Him. I lost faith, because it is improbable for a God to have made the world when we have a remarkable and probably accurate theory on our beginning. Just because I am no longer a theist doesn't mean I've never been a Catholic or Christian. You know NOTHING about me and how devoted I was. All that happened was that I grew up and relied more on fact than faith.
With that, I will say screw you and good riddance.
Posted by CalinMarie 1 year ago
CalinMarie
I'm about to post my argument.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Allow me to apologize publicly to CalinMarie, my last post was reaction NOT response and as is a common failing among men, I had a knee jerk reaction. A reaction that was not appropriate. I ask forgiveness of her for my failure to step away and reflect upon her responses, instead of reacting. I was wrong, in my response and she did not deserve such a response. Again, I apologize for my insolence.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
I remember when I denied the existence of God. I had no proof of course as I did not seek Him, I like all men simply believed that He did not exist. Only now do I come to realize that to profess a thing as myth, or untrue, it falls too me to determine its truth or falseness, and to do that I must search the question out in sincerity, and truth, as my statement may mislead others. People come or avoid God for two purposes as is written in scripture. The Honest man comes by way of verse 21, while the dishonest and fearful, by way of verse 20!

20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.~ John 3:20-21
Posted by CalinMarie 1 year ago
CalinMarie
By it, I mean evolution in my first paragraph.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lord_megatron 1 year ago
lord_megatron
FollowerofChrist1955CalinMarieTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited