Debate Rounds (5)
God is omnipresent which means God lacks the ability to leave a room. If God lacks the ability to leave a room then God doesn't have all powers (omnipotent) and if God is not omnipotent then God, isn't God.
Let's say for a second that God isn't omnipresent, and God is omnipotent then that'd make sense. Right? No, because if God has every power, God would be able to create an object that cannot be lifted up, then God cannot lift it. Therefore God cannot be omnipotent, therefore God is not God. But okay, lets say God can lift this object, because God can do anything and everything, then God cannot create an object that cannot be lifted because God can lift it. Therefore God is not omnipotent and if God isn't omnipotent, then God isn't God.
Now lets say God isn't omnipotent but God is omnipresent then, other than the fact that God cannot be God without being omnipotent, God would be a proton, a neutron, an electron, God would be a quark and a gluon. God would be all these things. But being all those things just makes God everything. God would have no ability to change what happens, God would lack the ability to see, smell, hear and sense, but, God would affect everyone's lives without being able to do anything, Being moved by others, but God would be everywhere.
However, saying that God is what makes up an atom doesn't cover it. If God is everywhere, God should be in a vacuum, but there is nothing in a vacuum and without being omnipotent God cannot be in a vacuum. Therefore God cannot be omnipresent and if God is not omnipresent, then God is not God.
I will make my round 1 argument by addressing your argument on omnipresent and omnipotent. To address your point on God being both omnipresent and omnipotent, that means that God is everywhere and can do anything. He is the sole Creator of the universe. Look at nature and it's complexity: do you really think the universe we live in, in all of it's complexity, could have been created WITHOUT divine intervention. Omnipresent does not mean he cannot leave a room; it means he is everywhere. God's unlimited power means he has the power to be everywhere. However, the only way us humans can fully comprehend omnipresent is if we could comprehend eternity. Sure, we know it means forever, but can you even begin to comprehend that? That is beyond size and time. Think of the concept of Him being omnipresent as Him being a omnipresent 3rd person narrator in a book, that book being our lives. He knows exactly what is going on, but that doesn't mean he is everywhere by human definition.
Also, God being omnipotent means that he can pick up that impossible to lift object he created. Human definitions of the impossible are not the same as His definition of the impossible. If that were the case, then He wouldn't be able to create the entire universe, so we wouldn't exist and wouldn't be having this argument right now. Also, to address the point of being in a vacuum: a vacuum is NOT something that has nothing in it: a vacuum has no AIR in it. If a vacuum had nothing in it, how are all the planets, stars, meteors, etc. in the vacuum of space?
Once again, good luck in this debate. Hopefully we can now move on to other topics other than omnipotent and omnipresent.
Now onto my argument. I would like to stay on the topic of God being omnipotent, if you don't mind. If God was able to create the universe and make everything in it, then does this mean God can change what 2+2=? That God can make 2+2=5? If God can do this then everything we understand about the universe implodes and the thing God created (the universe) has laws that can be altered and changed by God. If this is true, then maths (the tool humans use to understand everything), maths is a human creation, God didn't create it. This means that God actually created a universe without laws or rules, which means anything could happen. Yet not anything does happen. Everything follows these laws and when something doesn't follow it the rules have to be changed or we realize that a new rule has to be created. But everything we know follows these rules, and nothing that once did follow these rules now don't. Therefore if God can change the answer to 2+2, then why hasn't he?
I just have a few questions (I have never really understood these things so could you just explain. Me asking these things isn't be trying to be rude I am just curious)
Why does God only intervene with human life between the years 4000BC and 400AD?
Why is God male? Has anyone seen God to prove this?
If God were to tell people about God's existence, wouldn't God tell everyone on the planet rather than a small group that has to tell everyone? God would surely want everyone to know that God exists.
God said that Noah's ark was the only time God would flood the world, yet floods in countries all around the world are flooding and innocent people, children are being killed. Why is God flooding them if Noah's ark was the only time it would happen?
Why do hurricanes and earthquakes happen?
Now, onto your questions, which are very good and us Christians have asked ourselves, might I add:
1) God does not intervene with human life before 4000 BC because according to our beliefs the world did not exist then. He does in fact intervene in life after 400 AD, these instances are just not documented in the Bible. Jesus also said in the Great Commission that he would return one day, in a Second Coming of Christ. There are multiple stories of miracles that could only have happened with divine intervention, including cases of tumors simply disappearing.
2) God is actually neither male nor female. God created gender, therefore God does not have a gender. The reason we call God our "Father" and use the pronoun "He" is because that is the way the Bible was translate by King James. Also, Jesus was male. There are cases in the Bible where God exhibits motherly qualities as well, which I won't list because lack of room in this page.
3) Interesting point you brought up. If a booming voice were to come out of the sky saying, "Hey everyone I still exist," would you believe it? I wouldn't either. Thus, he has his servants spread his Word instead. Much easier to have us tell it rather than have half of humanity go crazy. Then again, He (or She) has a plan, so we really don't know why.
4) What God was saying there was that he would not send a mass flood to destroy his Creation again. Floods do happen still, but not any on the massive scale that occurred in Noah's time. Thus, the Flood is the only one God would ever send.
5) Here's a good answer from http://www.gotquestions.org... . Basically, natural disasters are the result of sin. Natural disasters occur because sin entered the world during the Fall of Man. I'm out of space now, I'll be back next round!
If God cannot change the laws of maths, surely that means God is not omnipotent. If God is not omnipotent doesn't that mean God is not God?
Back to the argument. Do you believe that the Earth (and possibly the universe) was created in 4000BC, even though scientists can date rocks back millions of years?
You say that natural disasters are God punishing sins, but so many innocent people die, surely the new born children who die haven't committed sins. Have they? If God wanted to punish those who sin, wouldn't he judge them individually? Wouldn't he kill individuals for sinning supposed to whole countries? Starvation in Africa is affecting children who haven't sinned. Those affected are innocent people drinking poisonous water because they don't have access to clean water.
I feel like if a booming voice announced it's self in a pool of clouds, cars started floating and buildings disintegrated and rebuilt themselves without anyone being injured would prove that God exists, I'd certainly believe that. If this happened all over the world simultaneously people would have to believe that God exists. I think if that happened everyone would convert to be a Christian and no one would sin again.
Again, I don't mean to offend anyone with my comments and I believe everyone is entitled to their own belief
The way I meant to phrase what I said on math is that it isn't that God can't change the laws of math, it's that He won't. He never strays from His perfection.
Again, God is like a third person omnipresent narrator that intervenes in the book, that book being us. Therefore, God is both inside AND outside of said hypothetical room, not one or the other. And before you say that violates the laws of physics, God is spiritual and divine, not physical.
I do, in fact, believe that the universe is around 6,000 years old. The biblical evidence is clear in this, and when you do the math, it comes out to 6,000 years. However, my beliefs do not reflect the beliefs of the entire Christian church.
Once again, I worded something wrong when talking about natural disasters. What I was trying to say is that disasters are not God punishing sins, they are a result of sin entering the world during the Fall. During Adam and Eve's time in the Garden of Eden, natural disasters didn't exist. When sin entered the world, that is when natural disasters began occurring. God would never destroy his Creation, as He promised Noah after the Flood.
Actually, no. In Revelation, the same thing happens that you describe. When that happens in the Bible, it says that MORE people turn away from God, not LESS. Satin is able to convince people to worship him when that stuff happens. Besides, God has always spread His Word through servants, all the way back to biblical times. If He knew that just telling everyone He exists would work, He would have done it by now, instead of waiting over 5,000 years.
Once again, I am trying to use the general consensus of the whole Christian faith to back up my argument, not my own views and beliefs.
RogueAthiest forfeited this round.
tar62800 forfeited this round.
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 8 months ago
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