The Instigator
SamBuck
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
SockMan
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

God's existence

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
SamBuck
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/25/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 488 times Debate No: 49851
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

SamBuck

Con

My starting argument is to simply state that we may not know all of the information in the universe, but this doesn't mean a god may exist within the information that we don't know. We can see this because of the fact that the god of the bible induces certain paradoxes and unanswered questions which I believe to be unexplainable. I would like to hear an explanation for these impossibilities, and an argument about the impossibility of a godless universe.
SockMan

Pro

If it is logically possible for a necessary being (i.e. God) to exist, then it exists. Whatever one clearly and distinctly to be contained in the idea of something is true of that thing. It is clearly and distinctly perceptible that necessary existence is contained in the idea of God. For this reason, God must exist. One cannot conceive of a God in any context other than one of existence. Clearly, He must exist.
Debate Round No. 1
SamBuck

Con

Statement #1: We must recognize first that the observable universe is a very complex yet very simple thing. It is a massive amount of matter and energy. That's really all it is. However, complexity starts to develop when this matter starts to form into complex structures, such as human beings, stars, and infinite other things. But, at its beginning, the universe was nothing but a big large bit of matter and energy. Now let us compare the universe's simplicity or any monotheistic god's simplicity. God is seen in general as an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent being which created the universe and human life. (If this is not your perspective on what a god is then please inform me.) Would not a being which knows everything, is everywhere, and can do anything be considered as more complex than a random assortment of matter and energy? If a very complex god could be formed from nothing, then wouldn't a random assortment of matter and energy be possible, if not more likely, to develop rather than a sophisticated being which is literally so complex that it is beyond human comprehension? This may not be 100% proof against a god, but it does show that the likelihood that the observable universe came into being on it's own is higher than a god coming into being on his/her own.

Statement #2: Even if a god was existing, how would he know to create the universe, when there is literally nothing to know. There is nothing in existence at the time other than god himself, so this means that there are no facts in existence. If there are no facts, then even an omniscient being would be without knowledge, because there is nothing to know. So, how would a god have the knowledge to create a universe which there is no knowledge about? The answer is that he would not.

I don't want to be rambling on, so I'll save my other points and conclusions for later points in this debate. I wish my opponent much luck in this round.
SockMan

Pro

SockMan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
SamBuck

Con

Okay! I will let you post your argument which would have been on round 2 to be fair. Darn deadlines!
SockMan

Pro

People all over the world believe in God. They believe that a higher power watches over them and guides them, and that they will be rewarded when they die for living good lives on Earth 1. Religion of some kind is a constant in virtually every culture, and there is evidence of religious practice almost as far back as we have evidence for humanity. Faith is its own proof, and the willingness of people to make tremendous sacrifices for their beliefs, even dying for them, demonstrates that they must believe in something that is real.
Nature is marked by clear design. The complexity of the human body, of planets, stars, and galaxies, and even of bacteria attests to the existence of creative agency. It is impossible that such things as interdependent species could come to exist without the guidance of God 1. Likewise, certain organisms can be shown to be irreducibly complex, meaning that if one were to remove any part of such an organism, it could not function. This refutes the gradualist argument of evolution, since there is no selective pressure on the organism to change when it is functionless. For example, the bacterial flagellum, the "motor" that powers bacterial cells, loses all functionality if a single component is removed 2. Besides design, the only explanation of its development is blind chance, which seems less sensible, since in human experience nothing complex can come about without agency.
Debate Round No. 3
SamBuck

Con

Of course religion is a constant virtuality in human civilization! But so is agriculture, clothing, sports, currency, war, and a form of government. My point? My point is that even though religion may have occurred in different isolated areas in the world, it does not mean that religion is special. I think religion is so commonplace nowadays because in ancient times people had so many unanswered questions. What are stars? Many religions have to do with complex things which are inexplainable without certain scientific instruments. Vulcan, the Greek god of the forge, hammered at his volcano, and sent sparks flying into the air from his mountain. Chac, the Aztec rain god, would cry to make it rain. Ra, the Egyptian sun god, was the sun. In Native American tradition, spirits poked holes in a giant blanket in the sky to make stars. All these religions answered seemingly unanswerable questions at the time. A coincidence, or did it just seem like the only answer existence at the time? And we can see this pattern in our civilization, with the creation of the universe and the creation of life. All the facts point towards religion being created simply to answer questions. Who says we won't find answers to the questions it "answers" now?

Also, if I tell you that you're head is on fire, and I fully believe that your head is on fire, you would probably check. When you find that you are not in any way on fire, does the fact that I fully believe you are on fire make you on fire? No! And the fact that people believe in god that does not make him real!

If we didn't have the right stuff inside our bodies, of course we would die! And that's why we have evolved these organs! There is no "reason" they were out there.

Now can I hear your rebuttal to my arguments, or do you not have one?
SockMan

Pro

What I am trying to say is that god may or may not exist but there is substantial evidence towards showing god does exist. The probability of life beginning on Earth is tiny. The chemical composition of the planet had to be perfect for the development of life, as did its position of orbit around the sun, since if it had been slightly farther away it would have been too cold for life to develop, while it if had been slightly closer, it would have been too hot. Furthermore, the evolution of human beings, with free will and intelligence, was even less likely. Had the universal constants " e.g. gravity, strong and weak forces " been different, the Universe would have been very different, and might well have been unable to sustain life 1. Only through design could the Universe possibly be the way it is, conducive to life on Earth.
Debate Round No. 4
SamBuck

Con

SamBuck forfeited this round.
SockMan

Pro

SockMan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
Oh, this reminds me of another Gem from the team:
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
What gave God his Complexity, since Christians claim that Complexity is the work of a Creator, then what created God's complexity?????
Posted by Jackthemarine86 2 years ago
Jackthemarine86
Or because He does not explain himself or his actions in manner which is satisfactory to your understanding- He doesn't exist.
Posted by Jackthemarine86 2 years ago
Jackthemarine86
So let me see if I understand you correctly: Because a God who is complex enough to implement complexity in the universe doesn't prescribe to your view of what He should be - He doesn't exist.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
SamBuckSockManTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's arguments were not convincing, subjective assertions and assumptions. Con's reasoning was more valid.