The Instigator
RandomTruth
Pro (for)
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The Contender
batewinner
Con (against)
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God's incompetence

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/3/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 742 times Debate No: 53983
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
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RandomTruth

Pro

Believers like to claim that God is perfect and all powerful but his actions belie that claim:

1. He is constantly getting humanity wrong. Adam & Eve, The Flood, Babel all show that he clearly has little understanding of what free will means and is constantly having to have do overs.

2. The three religions that he created clearly shows that he is poor at communicating his aims properly. From the 10 commandments onwards, he appears to not have his own rules about how he should be worshipped down pat. Even worse, his lack of clarity and his ambiguity has opened the doors to tens of thousands of denominations.

3. He also can't even keep his physical creations consistent, having to work around its limitations with special miracles and one-off events that cannot be explained and indeed are contradictory to known science. Surely better planning and more flexible specifications for the universe would have avoided these cheats.

In summary, God is incompetent in creating a universe that he doesn't have to bang into place and cheat, mis-managing his creation of humans from free-will to how we're supposed to appropriately worship him.

Thoughts?
batewinner

Con

you must not truly believe in god if your questioning what he does. what he does happens for a reason everybody has a spot in heaven but its up to us to fulfil that position and there fore if we don't take the time to go to mass were turning away from our faith is that something we want?
Debate Round No. 1
RandomTruth

Pro

| you must not truly believe in god if your questioning what he does.

I haven't questioned anything. I am drawing the conclusion on his documented actions - the very actions that we are asked to believe happened.

| what he does happens for a reason everybody has a spot in heaven but its up to us to fulfil that position and there fore if we don't take the time to go to mass were turning away from our faith is that something we want?

I am not saying that he doesn't have a reason. I am saying that he appears to be incompetent and requiring do-overs constantly.

Please address the OP, that these acts show a clear lack of planning, a clear lack of understanding of the consequences of free will and a serious misunderstanding of humans. Agree or disagree? If you don't know then please concede the debate.
batewinner

Con

batewinner forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
RandomTruth

Pro

Thank you for conceding the debate. I appreciate a quick conclusion to this -- sorry for the 5 rounds! 2 more to go!
batewinner

Con

batewinner forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
batewinner

Con

batewinner forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
RandomTruth

Pro

RandomTruth forfeited this round.
batewinner

Con

batewinner forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
LOL, examples of examples.
Most Christian arguments are like that, circular reasoning.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
If anybody wants a great example of Argument From ignorance Fallacy. (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam).

I could define such a Fallacy in one word: Christianity.
As the Bible is the best source of examples for Argument From Ignorance examples.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
The Bible does not tell anybody who wrote the tales:
Historians know that the Gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke nor John.
By the time Luke and John were written, none of the disciples were living.
Even some of the texts attributed to Paul/Saul are dubious.
It is also obvious from reading Genesis and Exodus that they were not written by Moses, Exodus describes Moses in third party mode, thus not written by himself.
God has nothing to do with the Bible, otherwise it wouldn't have so many contradictions, Chronological, Geological errors.
The Earth Is Not A Flat Disk with a Dome studded with Stars that will fall to Earth when the Dome is Shaken, which is even referenced in Revelations 16.

The Bible is too Ignorant of reality and Stupid to be the work of any God.
Posted by Longline 3 years ago
Longline
If you read the Bible it tells you who wrote the story , why didn't you take the time to read it yourself?
2timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17"so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

"The Authors are completely unknown,"

History itself does not deny the effect of the Bible and every character that are in it.
The story of the Bible does not contradict with any historical facts, in matter of fact the Bible is far more accurate than anything scientist have discover in the pass.

"The Bible God not only admitted extreme, Irrational Jealousy, but stated that it will murder and massacre humans because of this Jealousy,"

You know saying one thing is different, proving it and showing it from the Bible then I will believe you.

"during the Roman occupation and raping of women in the Hellenistic regions, women were claiming virgin births and some still make such claims today in Islamic societies for the same reason, to avoid punishment for having sex out of wedlock as even today."

The difference between these women you're talking about and Mary is that hers was predicted long before she even got pregnant and the name was given to her, the child was even describe in detail how he will look like and act like, even the child was predicted and all that he was going to do. everything that Jesus did was predicted long before he was even born how do you compare.

How can we be sure the Bible is true?

We know that the Bible is from God because it accurately foretells the future in detail.

No man can do that. (Joshua 23:14) Only Almighty God can accurately foresee mankind"s future."Read Isaiah 42:9; 46:10.

We would expect a book from God to be unique, and it is. Billions of copies of the Bible have been distributed in hundreds of languages. Though ancient, the Bible is in harmony
Posted by Longline 3 years ago
Longline
If you read the Bible it tells you who wrote the story , why didn't you take the time to read it yourself?
2timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17"so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

"The Authors are completely unknown,"

History itself does not deny the effect of the Bible and every character that are in it.
The story of the Bible does not contradict with any historical facts, in matter of fact the Bible is far more accurate than anything scientist have discover in the pass.

"The Bible God not only admitted extreme, Irrational Jealousy, but stated that it will murder and massacre humans because of this Jealousy,"

You know saying one thing is different, proving it and showing it from the Bible then I will believe you.

"during the Roman occupation and raping of women in the Hellenistic regions, women were claiming virgin births and some still make such claims today in Islamic societies for the same reason, to avoid punishment for having sex out of wedlock as even today."

The difference between these women you're talking about and Mary is that hers was predicted long before she even got pregnant and the name was given to her, the child was even describe in detail how he will look like and act like, even the child was predicted and all that he was going to do. everything that Jesus did was predicted long before he was even born how do you compare.

How can we be sure the Bible is true?

We know that the Bible is from God because it accurately foretells the future in detail.

No man can do that. (Joshua 23:14) Only Almighty God can accurately foresee mankind"s future."Read Isaiah 42:9; 46:10.

We would expect a book from God to be unique, and it is. Billions of copies of the Bible have been distributed in hundreds of languages. Though ancient, the Bible is in harmony
Posted by Longline 3 years ago
Longline
If you read the Bible it tells you who wrote the story , why didn't you take the time to read it yourself?
2timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17"so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

"The Authors are completely unknown,"

History itself does not deny the effect of the Bible and every character that are in it.
The story of the Bible does not contradict with any historical facts, in matter of fact the Bible is far more accurate than anything scientist have discover in the pass.

"The Bible God not only admitted extreme, Irrational Jealousy, but stated that it will murder and massacre humans because of this Jealousy,"

You know saying one thing is different, proving it and showing it from the Bible then I will believe you.

"during the Roman occupation and raping of women in the Hellenistic regions, women were claiming virgin births and some still make such claims today in Islamic societies for the same reason, to avoid punishment for having sex out of wedlock as even today."

The difference between these women you're talking about and Mary is that hers was predicted long before she even got pregnant and the name was given to her, the child was even describe in detail how he will look like and act like, even the child was predicted and all that he was going to do. everything that Jesus did was predicted long before he was even born how do you compare.

How can we be sure the Bible is true?

We know that the Bible is from God because it accurately foretells the future in detail.

No man can do that. (Joshua 23:14) Only Almighty God can accurately foresee mankind"s future."Read Isaiah 42:9; 46:10.

We would expect a book from God to be unique, and it is. Billions of copies of the Bible have been distributed in hundreds of languages. Though ancient, the Bible is in harmony
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
The person is the Unknown Bible writer, nobody knows who wrote any of those stories, nobody knows who really scribed Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, etc...
The Authors are completely unknown, thus we have no reason to believe anything they wrote.
Nothing can be truly attributed to anybody named Moses, and many historians now believe no Moses actually existed, and certainly did not lead thousands of slaves out of Egypt.

The Bible God not only admitted extreme, Irrational Jealousy, but stated that it will murder and massacre humans because of this Jealousy, so demonstrating extreme Malevolence and Megalomania towards Humans.

If it cannot understand humans then it is not Omniscient (All Knowing)

I studied Anthropology and Ancient history, yes, during the Roman occupation and raping of women in the Hellenistic regions, women were claiming virgin births and some still make such claims today in Islamic societies for the same reason, to avoid punishment for having sex out of wedlock as even today, women in those regions get stoned for such offenses.
Just as they did in Judaic Jordan.
The Islamic stoning of women for fornication comes from the Old Testament, much of the Koran originated from the O.T. and all the Islamic violence against non-believers comes from the same source.
Other stories women used in those times to explain their unwed pregnancies were bathing in the same water as men, or using the same toilets as men. Such was the naivety in those times.
Some women got away with such tales, because biologically, nobody knew any better.
This shows the naivety (now) of the Bible writers.
There is no worthwhile knowledge in the Bible, Historians have covered it all and it is now Obsolete.
Everything the Bible has stated has been researched thoroughly, thus there is nothing new to teach anybody, all is known and most is nonsense.
It should be scrapped.
We have much better books of knowledge these days.
Posted by Longline 3 years ago
Longline
@sag.?
(God admits this in the passages where God supposedly admits extreme Jealously.)
If a women say that she is jealousy because her husban is showing favoure in another female does that mean that she does not understand male? Or her husban? I'm confuse by your reasoning here, please explaine.
(Basically God is admitting that it cannot understand humans.)

(Though the Stupidity of the Creation story and the Adam & Eve myth proves that this was not inspired nor dictated by any real God, but contrived by some person out of their own head.)

Your are just saying stuff man, stuff... Where is the prove? And who is this person you are talking about?

(Thus the God of The Bible is Make-Believe and thus Jesus is not really God's son,)
Ok then who is gods son?
( but far more probably the son of a Roman Soldier )
Are you just guessing?
(and Mary claimed divine birth to avoid being stoned to death.)
Where did you get that source from?
Such claims by women were common in that era.

Yes, Con has not answered any of Pro's arguments.
I don't think Con has the intelligence to do so!
Posted by RandomTruth 3 years ago
RandomTruth
@Youth: My argument only requires an elementary understanding of the Bible. Is there a particular issue you require further details on?
Posted by Youth 3 years ago
Youth
Please state sources so I may understand each one's opinions.
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