The Instigator
giraffelover
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
yuiru
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

God's supposed murders are often actually deserved executions

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
yuiru
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/27/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,153 times Debate No: 31779
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (3)

 

giraffelover

Pro

I will be arguing that the God of the Bible isn't a murderer as some people say, but sometimes acts as an executioner.

God= the God of the jews in the Bible
Murderer= someone who kills someone outside of protecting someone, war, or someone who deserves to die (Hitler, Mussolini, Bin Laden, McVeigh, etc.)
Executioner= Someone who kills someone who commited a crime deserving the death penalty, such as murder.

Please vote. I want to improve my debating ability, and I can't do that if you don't tell me what I did wrong.
Round 1= Acceptance.
Round 2= Arguments
Round 3= Rebuttals
Round 4= Closing arguments.
yuiru

Con

I accept!
Debate Round No. 1
giraffelover

Pro

Hello, Yuiri. The Bible describes the actions of many of the people God supposedly murdered. One example: The Flood of Noah. This was a global flood that caused the Grand Canyon. However, the Bible says the Earth was filled with bloodshed and only Noah was righteous. Would anyone want to live in that society?

http://www.ldolphin.org...
Please post up to ten instances of judgement and I'll try to refute every single one.
yuiru

Con

Hello, Giraffe lover. I find God slaughter many people with little to no justification.

The Flood of Noah:

In the flood it may seem like god is punishing man for their crimes.

But what was the flood? The entire planet was flooded covering every mountain, no?

God didn't just kill "bad people" he killed all aquatic life and all terrestrial life that wasn't on the ark. What did the millions of innocent animals living in the ocean and on land do to deserve to have their homes destroyed and lose their lives? God could have easily avoided that seeing he is all powerful.

And no, they could of not have survived, a phenomenal shift in water mass would have changed the salinity, pressure, temperature, etc of the water killing all the aquatic life, because obviously life is adapted to different environments.

They may not be human, but that doesn't mean this isn't senseless slaughter.

Genesis 19:26-

Lot's wife dies for the crime of looking back at God's fiery wrath, god punishes her by making her a pillar of salt.

Genesis 38:9-10

Onan is killed by God for "spilling his seed"... Exactly why does not impregnating your dead brothers wife merit execution? It doesn't, that is murder.

Exodus 12:29

Egypt's first born were killed by god. What was the "crime"? Simply being firstborn when God decided to show his wrath.

Leviticus 10:1-3

Nadab and Abihu are burnt to death by God for offering "strange fire" before him... What? God must really not like offerings he finds "strange"...

Numbers 11:31-35

Some Israelites where hungry and decided to eat some quails, so God smites them with a deadly plague... God really likes quails huh?

Numbers 21:4-9

God smites Israelites with a plague for complaining about bread...

2 Samuel 6:6-7

God smites Uzzah for putting forth his hand to the ark, and taking hold of it to prevent if from shaking.
Never touch God's ark...

2 Samuel 12:14-18

David's baby is killed by God for something DAVID was responsible for? Justice?

2 Samuel 24:13

God kills 70,000 Israelites for no apparent reason.

2 Kings 1:9-12

God sends down a fire from heaven and kills captains and their fifty men sent by a king a couple times for asking prophet Elijah to "come down" later they are even pleading (but still killed).

1 Kings 14:10-18

God kills a child to save them... from... his own wrath...

2 Kings 2:23-24

God sends 2 she bears to maul 42 youths... for what? Committing the horrendous crime of mocking Elisha's bald head...

2 Kings 17:25-26

God kills some foreigners with lions simply because they did not worship him.


Okay...

How can any of these be justified and seen as anything other than senseless killing? That's is what I am wondering...

Debate Round No. 2
giraffelover

Pro

That's ok. The only reason I added please add 10 was so I didn't have to run out of characters. There is a very fascinating story about why Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt. As for the animals, there were many animals that died in the Flood. However, they probably committed the violence men were committing as well. Nadab and Abihu committed a more grievous sin than the surface implies. They actually tried to enter the Holy of Holies, an act punishable by death. They knew better. Now, as for the two captains and their 100 men, they acted like God was powerless to protect Elisha.
As for Onan, he insulted his family greatly by only caring about whether they would be his. This was a terrible deed back then. Now the Israelites were complainers. God punished them to teach us to be thankful. As for Uzzah, I'm not denying he had good intentions. However, God was very specific about how to transport this ark. David knew and followed God's law, so he should have known that God commanded a small fee from older people who served in the military for the pay of the priests. However, he didn't make the people pay, and God warned a plague would come if they didn't do this. As for Jeroboam's son, God gave his son an illness so Jeroboam I (there was a second Jeroboam) would ask a prophet if his son would recover. God gave him news that, because he caused Israel to be apostates, his entire family would be destroyed. As for these youths, baldness was considered a curse. Even though Elisha was a prophet, given the rights of a firstborn from the famous Elijah, these youths thought, "This guy's bald, so he's cursed." Baldness was a bigger deal in Israel than today, but these youths were old enough to know better. David's son is a pretty tragic story. I agree it doesn't sound fair. However, God knew that pagans would consider him powerless if he didn't punish David. As for Israelites, they might think they could commit adultery or murder unpunished if the king did. Now the lions were sent among the pagans because God wanted them to come to repentance. That's why they asked for a priest, so they could know what Yahweh commanded of them. It's sad about the first-borns, but this web site shows God killed fewer people than Pharaoh (who considered himself descended from the Egyptian god Ra), and only to pierce Pharaoh's heart.

http://christianthinktank.com...
http://www.rationalchristianity.net...
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org...
http://www.oocities.org...
http://www.jesusisthelight.net...
http://carm.org...
http://guzik.biblecommenter.com...
http://ebible.org...
http://www.chabad.org...
http://www.rationalchristianity.net...
http://www.blueletterbible.org...
http://www.gotquestions.org...
http://www.zianet.com...
yuiru

Con

"There is a very fascinating story about why Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt."

Yes, she was a murder witness.

"There were many animals that died in the Flood. However, they probably committed the violence men were committing as well."

I would like to know what kind of violence 1,000s of species committed to be completely wiped out and why it is mentioned nowhere in the bible. Yet the species, man, which supposedly incited the event, is still around...

"Nadab and Abihu committed a more grievous sin than the surface implies. They actually tried to enter the Holy of Holies, an act punishable by death."

Even if they "tried" they didn't, and that is not what they were slaughtered for. Nonetheless, is it ever reasonable to kill someone simply for entering a sanctuary. Even people who are caught breaking and entering wouldn't be given the death penalty.

"the two captains and their 100 men, they acted like God was powerless to protect Elisha."

They where massacred. In 2 Kings 1:13 they are definitely not acting like God was powerless to protect him.

"As for Onan, he insulted his family greatly by only caring about whether they would be his. This was a terrible deed back then."

That's 1) not what he was killed for by God and 2) not a good reason to slaughter him regardless of how bad it was "back then". Imagine getting the death penalty for insulting your family, for God to be a just god he should surely know better.

"Now the Israelites were complainers. God punished them to teach us to be thankful."

I'm sorry, but that really made me LOL. Parents should start following God's example and kill they're children to teach them to be thankful, that is until their children are mysteriously all gone.

"As for Uzzah, I'm not denying he had good intentions. However, God was very specific about how to transport this ark."

Don't mess with a perfect divine beings standard, especially if you are an imperfect mortal.

"David knew and followed God's law, so he should have known that God commanded a small fee from older people who served in the military for the pay of the priests. However, he didn't make the people pay, and God warned a plague would come if they didn't do this."

It's interesting all the prophets get away with their responsiblity while other people die, and as a result of, in this example, their negliagence.

"As for Jeroboam's son, God gave his son an illness so Jeroboam I (there was a second Jeroboam) would ask a prophet if his son would recover. God gave him news that, because he caused Israel to be apostates, his entire family would be destroyed."

Another shinning example of God's morality, kill the innocent for the actions of the guilty. AKA guilt by association, a logical fallacy.

"As for these youths, baldness was considered a curse. Even though Elisha was a prophet, given the rights of a firstborn from the famous Elijah, these youths thought, "This guy's bald, so he's cursed." Baldness was a bigger deal in Israel than today, but these youths were old enough to know better."

Well obviously it must be a big deal. Hell, cancer is considered a modern curse, but you don't here about people getting the death penalty for hurting a cancer patients feelings. Don't mess with Elisha kids, he don't play.

"David's son is a pretty tragic story. I agree it doesn't sound fair. However, God knew that pagans would consider him powerless if he didn't punish David."

Might is right! Gotta show those pagans!

"As for Israelites, they might think they could commit adultery or murder unpunished if the king did."

Then kill the king if anything! Jeez, that situation could have been avoided completely...

"Now the lions were sent among the pagans because God wanted them to come to repentance."


I find it rather humorous God is only willing to resort to violence when he wants someone to repent, guess they didn't repent fast enough...

"It's sad about the first-borns, but this web site shows God killed fewer people than Pharaoh (who considered himself descended from the Egyptian god Ra), and only to pierce Pharaoh's heart."

The thing about it is, God is not only punishing the Pharaoh for him refusing to let the Israelites free, but God himself hardend his heart so he WOULDN'T meaning God created the entire situation just so he could kill kids! I think God just gets a kick out of justifying his own slaughtering the innocent.

Oh I get it now! The Pharaoh killed more people than God, and seeing as God is very competitive, want a higher kill count than him.




Debate Round No. 3
giraffelover

Pro

As much as I wish I could refute your arguments, it's time for closing statements. I don't think God is guilty of murder because my conscience tells me murder is wrong and God made my conscience. The sixth commandment does not say you shall not KILL, but it says you shall not MURDER. There's a difference. The Two Witnesses in Revelation kill many people and yet never murder anyone.

One last source.
http://www.khouse.org...
yuiru

Con

To the jury:

I believe I have given the adequate scriptural evidence and responses to Pro, to prove God is guilty of multiple cases of murder.

If God is the source of morality than either humanity has it all ethics wrong and we should take our "little ones and dashes them against the rock!", or the god of the bible is just a huge jerk. (and well probably doesn't exist anyhow, THANK GOD!!!)

I would have been interested in what Pro's rebuttals would have been and thank him for the debate! It was a fun and interesting topic and I hope voters feel the same!


~I rest my case!
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by giraffelover 4 years ago
giraffelover
Don't everybody vote at once. In nearly two days, this debate has had all of 2 votes.
Posted by giraffelover 4 years ago
giraffelover
Please vote, one way or the other.
Posted by giraffelover 4 years ago
giraffelover
True, Murder is bad. However, the purpose of this debate is to decide whether God is justified in taking these people's lives such as the people during the Flood of Noah, Lot's Wife, etc.
Posted by toolpot462 4 years ago
toolpot462
Maybe you won't think it so stupid when you're on the brink. But personally I don't consider death bad - it's just as natural an occurrence as life itself, just another natural strain like birth (which a lot of people think is bad as well).

But murder is bad.
Posted by makhdoom5 4 years ago
makhdoom5
hhahh.
i always think why stupid peoples think death is bad.
if death is bad than this bad would happen to any body who ever lived.
indeed for sick minded peoples who are so bad deserves it soon.
and this is so bad for that.
as their actual punishment starts after death. other wise death of animals.
see animals kills other animals. they never created them.
ALLAH created them he is owner.
the animals would become so happy when they die in the cause of ALLAH.
they will be rewarded at the day of judgement.
simply the death is the meeting to the creator.
the peace and relief from any pain which this world gives all the time.
even think the hot season the cold season.
the thrust and the hunger. than whatever you do. even the pleasure also has its consequences.
well its long.
leave i will also do debate about this some time later.
Posted by yuiru 4 years ago
yuiru
Oh! Haha, it is actually an edit of this http://ameblo.jp...
It says somewhere on that site that it's "Yatsu's" daughter and her name is Kimi, but my japanese is a little rough so I'm not sure if that's correct. (I only have 2 years in Japanese)

I think it is so cute and funny though.
Posted by giraffelover 4 years ago
giraffelover
Btw, who is that girl on your picture?
Posted by yuiru 4 years ago
yuiru
Sorry! I put more than 10 I think...
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by autodidact 4 years ago
autodidact
giraffeloveryuiruTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had several examples that I feel pro did not successfully rebut. if god made pros conscience then he made cons as well, and the fact that con disagrees with pro on this negates pro's views. so what are we left with the definition. God's actions fit the defition Con wins my votes
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
giraffeloveryuiruTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguments: "There is a very fascinating story about why Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt." Is this truly meant to rebut her death as an "execution" not "murder"? If so, I find it utterly unconvincing. Pro did not sufficiently answer the charges against God and thus loses the debate.
Vote Placed by toolpot462 4 years ago
toolpot462
giraffeloveryuiruTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Yuiru makes points that in my view can't be refuted by Pro's sentiment. Tied sources because both sides used the citations provided.