Goku vs Naruto
Rules: No trolling, swearing, or insults.
If you accept, you must do the research and no forfeiting on any round unless you give a good reason for doing so, and post your arguement for any missed rounds in the current round.
Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: State your case
Round 3: Rebuttal
Round 4: Defend your case
Round 5: Constructive Criticism and Final Words (No debating)
Strength: In the Buu saga, Goku lifted 40 tons in 10x Earths gravity meaning he lifted 400 tons. Later in the movie Battle of Gods, which was stated to be canon by Akira Toriyama, he punched through King Kai's planet during a sparring match with Beerus. The planet had a radius of about 30 meters and yet 10x the gravity of Earth making its density and difficulty to punch through much more staggering than trying to punch through Earth, possibly exceeding the difficulty of trying to punch through a star.
Speed: When Goku fought Tien in the World Martial Arts Tournament, Tien used a technique called the Solar Flare which is just a bright flash of light. When Tien unleashed the attack, Goku ran over to Master Roshi and grabbed his sunglasses before the light reached him. This means that he equalled or exceeded the speed of light. Due to Goku's training it is likely that he got even faster since even gods like Kami and King Kai couldn't track his movements and by the time we reach the Buu saga he must be massively faster than light.
Skills/Techniques: Goku's Saiyan blood allows him to recognize and adapt to many types of fighting styles only after seeing them once or twice. Goku can use Energy Blasts, an Invisible Eye Blast, Krillin's Destructo Disk which can cut through almost anything, his signature technique the Kamehameha, the Solar Flare, the Dragon Fist, and the Spirit Bomb. He is a Martial Arts genius and has fighting skills like the Afterimage Technique, the Dragon Throw a Full Nelson, and many other techniques that would take too long to name.
Durability: Goku tanked a Kamehameha from a being that destroyed a galaxy over the course of a few years meaning he would need to destroy multiple Solar systems in one day and Dragon Ball galaxies are MUCH larger the real life galaxies only making this feat more impressive. He takes punches and energy blasts from planet busters on the daily. He even went inside of and absorbed the God of Destruction Beerus's God of Destruction energy sphere which is Beerus's most powerful attack.
Contention 1 realistic view
Imagine every character in Naruto fighting against one very very strong opponent. That is what this is. Just looking at the probability, it is unlikely that Goku could win. Even if he unleashed a hail fire of bombs (which is his only real move) any good ninja could dodge it and he also would have so many people fighting him it would be impossible to get away from being on the defense. Even if he takes out a very good member there are more to replace him and on top of this there are so many random powerful jutsu in Naruto that there is bound to be some very simple way to capture goku like a sealing jutsu which there are plenty of. So this argument is basically sheer number of people and number of jutsu to face, at the very least his is a war attrition and eventually even goku has to get worn out.
Contention 2 mangekyo sharingan and other sharingans
In the Naruto world there are a few people who have crazy sharingan abilities, in this argument I simply state that these jutsu are too much for Goku to handle and would ultimately lead to his own downfall because he can’t prepare for the wide variety of attacks. These are the general forms of Sharingan:
Subpoint A: Kamui sharingan-Obito’s sharingan
Firstly, we should look at one of the best sharingan ability which is Obito’s ability. Obito can suck people into another dimension with his sharginan into a void, goku would simply starve to death in there. Here is the jutsu:
One could make the argument that this takes too long, however another Naruto character could trap Goku in a genjutsu and then Obito could use his jutsu to suck him in as previously stated. Here is an example of a gentjutsu trap (this one from the character Itachi) which the other person could put him in (only watch up to 2:30):
So clearly this is a good move to use.
Subpoint B: Amaterusa-Move all sharingan uses posses
Amaterusa is basically a fire which never extinguishes and thus, if goku got even a little bit on him he burns to death end of story. Again, all they have to do is trap him for a second and then light him up and he is done. Once again it does not go away until the victim is completely ashes. Here is an example of Ameterusa
Subpoint C: Revival sharingan
In the event that one of the good characters dies he could simply revive himself by using this technique which costs one eye. See here:
Contention 4 Sexy Jutsu
This is another knock out technique which Goku is not prepared to handle. One hot stare at some tatas and he has insta-lost the match!
Remember, not only is Goku himself faster than light but so are his attacks. Piccolo shot a medium power blast at the moon and it exploded 1 second later. In total it would take about 2.6 seconds for light to go from Earth to the moon and back meaning that the attack itself traveled faster than the speed of light. Most Naruto characters cap out at the speed of sound. Goku can alter the area of effect of his attacks making the explosion cover a smaller or larger radius depending on his opponent. This is how his Full Power Kamehameha doesn't destroy the planet that he's on. Most Naruto characters have mountain level durability it would be easy for Goku to wipe out an army of ninjas and they wouldn't be able to react to it due to the beam going faster than they can see. There is a technique that allows them to see an attack coming but that doesn't mean they can always dodge it.
Remember this is a fight between Son Goku vs Naruto Uzumaki, not the entire cast of Naruto. Being stuck in a void wouldn't be a problem. Goku could use Instant Transmission to escape, the technique is so effective that it can be used to travel between the world of the living and the dead with ease. A Genjutsu would not work due to the fact that Goku has no chakara and a genjutsu is a chakara dependent attack. Kishimoto said that it is SIMILAR to things like the Force from Star Wars or Ki from Dragon Ball. It is similar in the way which it is used but not on whether they are compatible.
The Amaterasu wouldn't work on Goku due to the fact that he's survived in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber which has temperatures so hot that lava shoots up from the ground or so cold that it could freeze someone solid. Goku could easily dodge or block the attack using a Ki shield which MANY characters have been seen using. The Amaterasu has been stopped by a few ninjas using a water seal. Goku could directly stop it using a Ki Blast Cannon which can put out entire forest fires.
Again Naruto Uzumaki vs Goku only, but if one character does revive then he'll just kill him again with another FTL ki blast. Goku's level of ki is largely transcendent that it drowned out the energy of his own son and could be felt in both the Mortal Realm and other world and it shook the planet just by powering up. Goku's level of Ki has limitless potential. If Goku reached his body's physical limits he would just train to increase and control his reserves of Ki.
Goku would easily dodge this, he would rather dodge an unknown attack then take it head on. His reaction time is millions of times faster than any Naruto character. It would be like "I don't know that attack, I should get out of the way of it."
A Naruto character would never be able to grab Goku because he is too fast and he would be able to sense their life energy. And even IF someone did get him he could just blast them off with another Ki Blast Cannon or Spirit Shot.
Now, this one. in early Dragon Ball, Bulma practically offered to undress for Goku to get what she wants. Goku has never seen a girl before so his curiosity would be peaked but Goku said, and I quote, "Why would I want to touch your dirty old fanny?" At the moment you showed in the picture, Goku was only familiar with male anatomy and did know why Bulma had a soft spot at her crotch so Goku investigated, it had nothing to do with pervertedness. Goku as an adult has never shown any signs of pervertedness because in a fight, he's focused on the fight and nothing else even on an empty stomach, it's like nothing to him unless he's training.
Contention 6: Round Abuse
Now this is slightly irritating, The resolution clearly states Naruto, which is an anime and a manga series will go against Goku’s character. Why exactly didn’t pro define what Naruto was? Surely he knew there are two types. It is ridiculous to think that Naruto the character could even come close to beating Goku because of Goku’s raw power and I would never have accepted if I knew this. Thus the fault of error is on Pro. Furthermore I clearly defined Naruto as the show and manga in the acceptance round and Pro accepted that definition, he never once in his first round mentioned this. Pro has been negligent in not defining and then accepting ‘The wrong’ definition and he should be liable by having to have the match over the characters from Naruto. But let’s move on now…
Contention 1: realistic outcome
Faster than light? Lol even in the anime world this is ridiculous. It simply isn’t possible. Even if it was though you are simply using deductive evidence to come to that conclusion when in reality, anime artists do not tailor to reality so of course they aren’t going to make sure that the laser beam arrives at the right time. You can and should only be able to make this claim if there is literally a manga or anime episode that literally says Goku can go faster than light. Your own speculation is not sufficient.
Contention 2: Sharingan
A: Kamui sharingan
I concede that Goku could be captured and starved as you are right he could just teleport away. However you are wrong about genjutsu and your position is yet again, abusive. You can’t just assume that because Goku’s energy isn’t called chakra that it is not and most importantly for the sake of the debate obviously our moves have to work on each other. If you disagree then I’ll have to assert that Goku’s energy blasts wouldn’t work on us because Ki doesn’t affect Naruto characters.
You said: “The Amaterasu wouldn't work on Goku due to the fact that he's survived in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber” However that doesn’t prove anything. In the Naruto world the show literally Says that it Will burn anything infinitely until it is destroyed and thus you can’t just start making exceptions to the definite rule based on a measly fact in the anime. This argument still stands.
Then you state: “Goku could easily dodge or block the attack using a Ki shield [or water blast]”. First, you can’t dodge it, when they look at you it instantly appears on your body, there is nothing to dodge. Secondly, one of my main points is that Goku could definitely be trapped or at least momentarily restrained by any method which would give plenty of time to either rip his soul out or light him on fire…ect. One of the main methods of restraint that I listed was genjutsu which makes Goku screwed as far as being trapped. He has no way to prevent genjutsu as even glancing at a sharingan user’s eyes puts you in a genjutsu trap.
C: Revival sharingan
First, whether or not goku kills the person again is irrelevant, the argument is simply that people on my side have a helpful trick up their sleeve giving team Naruto another advantage over goku. Then Roan states: “If Goku reached his body's physical limits he would just train to increase and control his reserves of Ki.” This is irrelevant. If Goku gets beaten to the point he can’t move then we have won that fight and thus negated the resolution. Whether he can come back for a rematch later is irrelevant.
Contention 3: OP moves refutation
A: Pein's dragon
Roan states: “Goku would easily dodge this, he would rather dodge an unknown attack then take it head on. His reaction time is millions of times faster than any Naruto character. It would be like "I don't know that attack, I should get out of the way of it.”
This is true however the point is that it exists and they could harness that move’s OP-ness to their advantage. Again if they get Goku in a genjutsu he is a sitting duck and can’t dodge..ect
B: Soul steal jutsu
“A Naruto character would never be able to grab Goku because he is too fast and he would be able to sense their life energy.”
Like I said they don’t *need* to grab him they just need to restrain him momentarily. Again, genjutsu would be great for that purpose.
Contention 5: Sexy Jutsu
It doesn’t really matter if Goku didn’t care as a child when Bulma offered herself because at this time goku was just a child and so he was innocent. But now, he knows what sex is (he obviously has a kid) and thus he must be sexually attracted to women and vulnerable to this sexy jutsu. Easy win
I have sufficiently argued against my opponent's claims and pass the pen back to him.
I have become aware of me not specifying which of the two types of Naruto we were using in this debate and for that I would like to extend my most sincere apology for it. The debate will be Naruto as in the anime/manga series vs Goku's character as you've stated.
In an episode of the anime, Piccolo fires is Special Beam Cannon at Raditz. Raditz dodges the attack and Piccolo says, "He must be faster than the speed of light." In this manga scan, Kid Goku is confirmed to be at least as fast as lightning before he finished his training with Kami. The average lightning bolt is about 50 times slower than light. Using the Super Saiyan stat multipliers this means that if Kid Goku-(Before Kami Training) transformed into a Super Saiyan he would be lightspeed. Super Saiyan 2, twice lightspeed. Super Saiyan 3, eight times lightspeed. Then there's Super Saiyan God which is at least more powerful the Super Saiyan Vegito or at the very least 20,000x Goku's base form. This is reasonable since Vegeta stated that even if Goku and himself fused they couldn't beat Beerus and this is a low end calculation. When Goku fully masters Super Saiyan God, then his powers and abilities should skyrocket. For now this is all we have.
Super Saiyan 1=50x base
Super Saiyan 2=100x base/2x Super Saiyan 1
Super Saiyan 3=400x base/4x Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan God=>20,000x base/>50x Super Saiyan 3
A: The main difference I can see between ki and chakra is that chakra works like a second circulatory system going through the brain heart and extremities. While ki is more of a sun in the center of the user's body. Genjutsu disrupts the chakra flow to the brain and alters the target's senses similar to how if your brain becomes deprived of blood you can start to hallucinate as your brain doesn't function properly due to the loss of blood. However, whether genjutsu would work on a Dragon Ball Z character is debatable. The way the entire fight will go seems to fall solely on whether Genjutsu will or will not work on Goku. I have read in some places that an immense surge of energy, such as Goku powering up would be able to disrupt the Genjutsu but I'm not sure if it's true or not.
B: The 4th Raikage did manage to dodge the Amaterasu, so it's not impossible just EXTREMELY difficult. This is where Instant Transmission could come in handy if Goku saw it coming. Also, if the target is moving too quickly so that the user can't focus on him, then Amaterasu will miss.
C: I do admit having the Revival Sharingan would drag the fight out longer but it wouldn't make too much of a difference in the outcome.
A: It still relies on whether Genjutsu will work or whether Goku will look into the Genjutsu user's eyes.
B: Again, you can read Contention 2-A for my opinion on Ki vs Chakra.
Goku probably has enough common sense to not fall for another woman lest Chi-Chi rage at him for doing so. Sexy Jutsu only really works on perverts, Sasuke resisted the effects of Sexy Jutsu. Goku has been stated multiple times to have a pure heart not tainted by the seven deadly sins. The only sin that tainted Goku's heart was rage and that was from the Super Saiyan transformation but after a while with Mastered Super Saiyan Goku's heart is still pure when he's transformed. So there's no Lust in Goku's heart meaning no pervertedness which means that Sexy Jutsu would have a miniscule chance of working. Also, if Goku's heart was contaminated by Lust/pervertedness, then he couldn't use the Spirit Bomb. Only the Pure Good or Pure Evil can use the Spirit Bomb.
Contention 1: realistic outcome of all out war
Goku faster than speed of light? Lol
First off, just to be a nitt picker, you got your speed of lightning wrong or something. According to google, lightning travels at around 224,000 miles per hour. Light on the other hand travels at 670,616,629 miles per hour. This means that the speed of lightning is just 0.00034% of the speed of light. However according to you, since goku has 20,000x his original power level, his speed increased by that much as well. We then know that his speed would be (.00034x10,000=3.4-----3.4x2=6.8) 6.8x the speed of light. However you make a few logical fallacies here. First off, you assume that just because his over-all power increases, that his speed increases by that same amount. Power is not synonymous with speed. In math mathematical terms, you assume a linear relationship between power and speed when in fact that has not been proven. Secondly, you haven’t specified what the ‘originial power’ is. Furthermore, when was is? At what point was his original power set? This is important. Lastly, if evaluated on the real world it is simply impossible to go faster than the speed of light, as that would pretty much break the F-ing universe. SO in sum here are my main points, all of which are take outs to this argument:
1.) The relationship between power and speed is not linear and hasn’t been proven so
2.) You haven’t specidied what exactly the ‘original power level’ is
3.) It is impossible to go the speed of light
Next if we look at your evidence, all you have is here say. Because of the principle of debating in general, you MUST provide the piece manga or the anime where it says goku went faster than light. Secondly I have preemptively researched this and found that this occurs in the dubbed version only and most people conclude that it is simply an overstatement to exaggerate how fast he was going. I request further citation that goku is faster than light, especially if pro is assuming that goku was faster than light as a mere child? Surely they would talk about it later on when he is even more powerful? Here is my reaserch on the topic, it comes from a forum but Ehh, what are ya gona do, we’re debating anime here, not ever source can be from Harvard law lol:
“OK, in the english Dub version of DBZ, Piccolo says "He must be faster than the speed of light"... But in the Manga Piccolo says "no one... Can move so fast" And the FTL line just isn't even in the Japanese version of the anime.” -http://www.animevice.com...
Contention 2: F it, lets just call this ‘genjutsu and friends’ section
A.) Uh-oh, this is about to get really fun….So I think this is your best argument but I can counter it. You are right, Genjutsu works just like the blood stream in the body except of course it carries chalkra instead of blood. Now there are convincing argument for the opposition and I want to skip the Bull ish and dive right in so I will be making a few arguments here, I’m going to lay it out like a conversation so its easier to read.
1.) “Genjustsu is when a ninja takes control of a ninja’s chalkra system, thereby affecting their cerebral cortex and thus their 5 senses”….Goku doesn’t have a chalkra system and therefore genjutsu won’t work on him.
2.) This later goes on to say that any mamal can be effected by genjutsu suggesting that every mamal has chalkra.. it says even dogs can be ‘genjtsued’. And any animal with a cerebral cortex can be affected.
3.) According to the Naruto series the 6 paths (a person) was the first to have chalkra after his mother “Kaguya osutsuki” birthed him” thus, because goku is not the son of her, he doesn’t have chalkra and can’t be effected, he was born on another planet.
4.) This is only the manga world, however the fairness of the match dictates that we don’t solely judge the debate on specifics like this. In order for fairness to prevail we need to make sure as many characters can use their moves as possible. This restricts abuses and let’s characters use their moves to the fullest. IMPORTANT PART: if we look to what chalkra and ki really are we can see that they originate from nearly the same thing. Going into full section/explanation:
If we look at what chalkra and ki really are, they are practically the same thing. Chalkra is an inner energy and so is ki. When you look up where these came from you see that Chalkra came from india in the form of Buddhism into Japan. While ki (qi) comes from “traditional Chinese” culture and religion. Remember that China, Japan and India border each other so the spread of religion and similar ideas make sense. So fundamentally Chalkra and Ki are the same thing and the details of the anime do not matter. See these wiki links for details:
LOL, wait what? When did raikage dodge the ametarusa? He got his arm burned clean off lol.
Being that this sharingan technique brings you back from the dead I think its pretty significant lol. Take the 11+ amazing sharingan uses I have under my belt and then give them all 1 extra life haha.
Contention 5: sexy jutsu
Let’s face it guys. Goku is a man. He is a manly man, and he need’s pu##y. All men do. We desire pu##y. God dictates that once you bite into the tempting apple you can’t come back haha, so I’m just gona contend that goku will sh^t himself and fly back to non-existent saiyan planet LOL.
Pro has conceeded the round it appears. Good Game, Vote Con
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