Good cannot exist without bad.
Debate Rounds (4)
"Bad" is a concept created by us humans. "Bad" does not really exist outside the human concept. Therefore, "bad" doesn't really exist per see.
So God can exist without "bad", since "bad" is just a concept.
"Bad" is also not a very defined concept. Therefore, the concept can be very much subjective. Something you see as "bad" can be seen as acceptable, and therefore "good" to me.
That's true due to our differing experiences. Say I disliked a modern film, maybe because I've seen every film out there and find this one lacking. Then let's say you've never seen any film and finally you watch this one. Chances are you would like it, if only due to the novelty of such a thing.
Our ideas of what good and bad are can most certainly be different, and in fact usually are. My point is that good cannot exist without bad. One needs to know what bad is in order to know what good is.
"Good can exist without "bad", since "bad" is just a concept."
Good is also a concept, which exists only in comparison to bad.
Take sex. Sex is good. It feels good compared to non-sex. Constant sex, on the other hand, loses it's quality. It hasn't enough contrasting non-sex experience.
Here's a pretty strong example: say someone is bored and upset with their current experience. Someone approaches them and reminds them that there are much less fortunate people (starving children, etc.). Regardless of how bad they may feel for these people, if at all, it is through such knowledge that they can at least recognize that their current experience is in fact "good."
Comparitive "good" and "bad" can't come into the picture until there is a comparison; and they always come together, never one without the other.
I would challenge you to describe something that can be good without implying bad, even just in thought.
Good and bad are both concepts, they exist as concepts and nothing more.
The two concepts are very much subjective.
Good and bad cannot exist without one another.
"Take sex. Sex is good. It feels good compared to non-sex. Constant sex, on the other hand, loses it's quality. It hasn't enough contrasting non-sex experience."
This statement is subjective, but yet you use as affirmative, by saying "sex is good". I'll guess you never heard of asexuality, or maybe such of detail did not occur to you. Asexual do not feel "good" while having sex. So sex is not "good" for them.
Then you yourself implied that, sex can be "bad", which contradicts your initial statement.
So is sex good or bad? Either of those two concepts can be use, and neither answer will be wrong (unless you lie about your answer).
There is also the option of neither of those answers being applicative.
Let us say that, the person lacks any sensation by the lost/lack of the sense of touch.
There is a case by a woman called Julie Malloy. She was born with a disorder called Hereditary Sensory Neuropathy type 2 (HSN2). Because of this disorder, she can't feel anything in most parts of her body, including the sense of pressure. As such of disorder is so rear, she was only diagnosed by age of 25. Doctors thought at first, she just happens to be very tolerable to pain.
*Sources: National Organization for Rare Disorders, Orphanet Journal of Rare Diseases, WebMD and Drs. Than Vu and Sanjiv Naidu
So the concept of bad and good is dependable of things such as feelings, without it, those concepts cannot even be understood, and therefore is nonexistent to that person, if they lack or were impaired of such of ability to feel.
"Luckily" for Julie, this disorder did not affect her entire body, or she would most likely not have survived for long. Which happens in cases such as Anencephaly of which the person cannot survive for a very long time. Longest I have read about, is the case of Stephanie Keene (aka Baby K), that was kept alive for two years and 174 days.
In the Matter of Baby K, 832 F.supp. 1022, E.D. Va. 1993.
"I would challenge you to describe something that can be good without implying bad, even just in thought."
This is a topic for another debate of which I did not take. We are in agreement so far that good cannot exist without bad. Therefore, even if I wanted to please you, with such of topic debate, I wouldn't be able to do so since we are in agreement here.
All I said was that good cannot exist without bad, as the blaring title above says, and you've already claimed to agree with this.
Let me see if I can savage this debate.
Like I pointed in the first round, bad does not really exist per see since it is just a concept, and not even an absolute concept. You cannot have absolute good or absolute bad.
Something to be good, by our definition of what good is, something good cannot feel bad, but since bad must exist for good to exist, we have a contradiction. So even know we have a concept for good and bad, they cannot possibly exist, even know we created the concept.
Therefore, good and bad does not really exist, just the concept does. The concept of good and bad, is not really good and bad, but just a concept.
Good is that which is to be desired or approved of, according to Google. It is a title for such things and does exist. Bad is simply it's opposite: that which is not to be desired or approved of. It, too, in fact exists, as long as there are people who desire.
If there is something to be desired, or something good, than the existence or possibility of something that is not to be desired, or bad, is always implied, and vice versa.
In my subjective experience, I consider pain something that is not to be desired. This very idea implies that what is to be desired, and therefore good, is to not experience pain. There can be no instance of anything that can be desired, or otherwise beneficial, that doesn't imply the possibility of it's opposite.
I was going to use this with the God argument, but I think it can apply here as well.
The concept that God exist and created a world for man exists (the concept).
In that world that was no bad, everything was perfect as it could be. Since it was a perfect place, there was the option for the people (Adam and Eve) to leave the place if they so desire. The option was the tree, which was a window to knowledge.
Notice, I did not say it was good because good is the absence of bad, but for good to exist, even as a concept, bad must also exist because I need bad to explain good.
But after the event, and knowledge was obtained, you would have to say that at that garden, bad did not existed, and therefore good existed without the existence of bad, but the concept could not become to be.
That story can be seen as a concept, but many believe to have existed.
If the story is true, and you believe good and bad existed (which I don't), then you can see that good existed independently at one point in time, even know the notion and concept did not. But if good really exists, then a concept and notion does not have to exist for good to exist.
If you don't believe in the story, and feel is just a story, then good alone just existed as a story or concept before, if you believe that just because a concept exists, is true, and the idea behind the concept is real, then you have to believe good can exist by itself since the concept exists, otherwise you are contradicting your beliefs.
I apologize for the misunderstanding in the begin of this debate. I hope this debate haven't being completely useless.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by rross 4 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: So weird. I read god instead of good at the start too. Con started to get it together by the last round, but by then it was too late.
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