The Instigator
A_Flying_Toaster
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Deanovan
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Google needs to get off Youtube

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 797 times Debate No: 42323
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

A_Flying_Toaster

Pro

It is my belief that Google, after their company's recent modifications on Youtube, need to just cancel all the changes they have made, and leave it alone from then on. It is causing a lot of problems for most to all of the users of the website. I will list all of the problems I see at the moment.

1.) Google is making changes that most of the users of Youtube have been and are expressing their distaste in. Google has mostly been ignoring every bit of criticizm and stubbornly refuses to change what they have done even when pressed about it.

2.) Google is effectively treating every single user on Youtube like criminals with their recent new copyright changes. Also, their content ID flags are infact crippling larger channels like the AngryJoeShow, TotalBiscuit. Large channels like MinnesotaBurns and Pewdiepie have started turning comments off in their videos along with Nerd Cubed, because of the problems they cause.

3.) And worse, when a video is flagged with one of these content ID flags, the video makes zero profit and it instead goes to the company's who by the way can just go on Youtube and flag any video they see. So it is just the greedy benefit of Google and the company's who do this act that are being the problem to actual, innocent users.

Google+ needs to get off of youtube after changing everything back to how it normally was. It is a win-win for Google and buisnesses, putting more money in their already stuffed pockets. It is a lose-lose situation for us, the innocent users and content creators.
Deanovan

Con

now im assuming that because this is an oppinion piece my stats have to be limited. however

MY CASE:
Googles recent changes to youtube are not harmful, dont need to be canceled and are fine the way they are. they should make more changes seeing as google, being a experienced company, knows best in this situation. i will list my contentions and will proceed to refute my opponents case.

CONTENTIONS:
1) The comment section has become alot cleaner and much better. now that the censorship has increased, the hate, mean comments, and spam have dramatically decreased. i have seen a cleaner, more fun comment section. which is the goal of youtube, to be fun for everyone . now that the newest changes have made the comment section smoother. Bob and his army has gone away, so now alot of people has jumped ship back to my side. on top of that the new integration of being able to directely someone, using google plus, has made a much more advanced comment section. Also you can hashtag now in comments which is a huge upgrade because now you can enter comment section contests without going all the way to twitter. this is evident in RayWilliamJohnson's video podcasts where if you are going to submit a question they just ask you to #runawaythoughts (name of the podcast).

2) google integration has made thing much easier and much smoother. google intagration is esentually just the new account set up. so for new users, this means that they can just sign up like we did when we started. this also means that you have just one account to sign up for all google applications. i can run everything from gmail, to youtube, to google docs all from one account. i don't even have to sign in on my computer because it has just memorized my google account so when i go to use a new google website, i can completely skip a step! along with the smoother movement of google and youtube comes the previously mentioned hash tagging and someone.

3) This is just another change to a social media/ website which people HATE. they don't hate the change. they hate change its self. this is a huge problem that Facebook faced (no pun intended:) ) when they made changes. every time everyone thought the last version was perfect and without giving the new features a try. the new system has made a lot of things much easier, faster, and much more fun.

REBUTTALS:

my opponent's first contention: google is ignoring fan criticism. my opponent feels that his or her voice is being ignored. first off, google has made many changes based on fan feed back. they changed the comment section a few times before deciding on this format because of bob and his "army". google has been very good about listening to user complaints. however they have reached the point where they feel the comment section and the rest of youtube is much better (which it is). but bob and his army has gotten everyone riled up. this on top of the internets tendency to complain has caused buy opponent to interpret the new youtube as google "not listening". at this point google is just waiting for everyone to calm down, look at the new tools, then send constructive criticism. this is not google "stubbornly refusing" this is them logically making their website better. the only stubborn ones is the ones who refuse to try to use the new tools and instead just bitch and moan that they miss old youtube. most of this is covered in my 3rd contention.

my opponent's second contention: Googles copyright laws incriminates users. google has had some new copyright laws, and for good reason. copyright infringement is no joke. but what has happened to AngryJoe, and Total Biscuit was soon there after fixed, considering google works directly with most youtubers. their "crippling effects" are mild inconveniences. as for the other 3 channels who were mentioned. none of them disable comments regularly. many channels disable comments on hot button top topics to limit cyber bullying, which is a different topic completely.

my opponents final contention: google is taking money away from users. google is flagging videaos for a reason, so are the companies. it is important that copyright is not infringed, thats why they get taken down. this is not uncommon in media that things have to be flagged for copyright.and as for them "flagging any video they see". its not a blind reaping of videos to profit from. this is when a company sees that their content is being illegaly used they flag it. on top of that the no profit thing is a "no duh" situation. if they copyright, they deserve to not be paid for it. its not at all greedy, especially since, again, google works directly to fix that exact problem with youtubers. the companies like nintendo for example don't want their content up without permission on other channels, which is legal.

in conclusion google has had a positive effect on youtube as a website and a community. google+ has been helpful and made youtube, along with other google apps generally smoother. google+ should stay because its a win for those who use the new tools, those who upload, because they get more publicity, and for google. in the pro world where google leaves youtube. we are left with a primitive version of youtube that companies don't want their ads on in turn causing the uploader to lose money the company to lose money, and those who enjoy the new tools to be left with this downgraded version of youtube. in the end we should try something before we complain we like the old version.

A_Flying_Toaster thanks for this debate. I have just joined the website, and I'm loving it! I've been on this side for a while and I'm glad to express it in debate. I'm part of my high school speech and debate team and so I'm gonna recommend this site to all of them. this is my first debate (that DOES NOT mean go easy ;) ) thanks again to my opponent, and the voters and commenters!
Debate Round No. 1
A_Flying_Toaster

Pro

Excellent! I'm glad this site is going to get more us out of it because it as a really useful and well-made website for people who just love to debate or plan a future in politics like I do. I'm glad that even debate students like you can start getting into it. Anyways, on to my argument. I'm going to respond to each list of your contentions individually so it is nice and clean.

1.) Yes, admittedly, the comment section is very much cleaner than how it used to be and censorship has supposedly been increased. But on my end, I literally see no difference in mean comments, spam, and hate gone. And I think Bob and his army finally went away because youtubers started to realize how ridiculous and pointless it was to spam the heck out of it, and since I still see a lot of spam, it was clear that Google had no help in it. It was just the users of Youtube that finally got sick of the stupid Bob person, and thank goodness for that. Now, I never said that the comment sections have not had their improvements because they certainly have. But to me, it isn't worth it because the bad is more present than the good in my opinion.

2.) Google integration is no don't good for organizing and all that, but content creators like me shouldn't be FORCED to integrate our accounts in with Google. That should be a choice of the user. Not Google. Because some channels didn't want to be integrated with Google. Check out Mrrepzion's video: http://youtu.be..., mind you some of his points are outdated, but you can check out his other videos on the topic as well. But it does have a couple good points still.

3.) You see, your argument here sounds rational, but you are just basing it off and assumption. I liked facebook's recent changes, they aren't really that bad at all. But you are just basing it off an assumption. I do not like Google's changes for good reason. Legitimate concern. And if you check out youtubers like Mrrepzion, AngryJoeShow and TotalBiscuit have legitimate dislike in Google as well. This isn't just a childish change hating ordeal. This is legitimate concern.

Rebuttal Responses:

1.) I do not feel MY voice is being ignored, I feel EVERYONE's voice is being ignored. And yes, they have made changes here and there, but they aren't making changes off things that people are harping upon heavily, just minor changes just so they can tell themselves "Hey, we changed something!" And yes, Bob and his stupid 'army' have made a lot of people on Youtube look like children, and it is sad. But they should really be listening to people like Angry Joe and Total Biscuit and people like me who are willing to express their serious concern against them. With actual constructive criticism instead of just spam. They shouldn't punish EVERYONE for a bunch of childish youtubers and should still listen. Because despite the maturity level of the Bob spam, let's be honest. It was caused nonetheless by their changes. I hated the Bob spam though, the users expression of dislike should have been much more rational, but it wasn't. But we can at the very least admit it was caused by the changes. And I'm not ignoring the new tools, I've used them and still do not like them, but can't do anything about it because again, I am forced to be integrated.

2.) Copyright infringement is no joke, but AngryJoe's problems and TotalBiscuits problems are STILL present. Check out their recent videos on the manner and you will see that. And again, AngryJoe and TotalBiscuit, if you watch their videos, will show that these aren't mild inconveniences. And for your last point, they are disabling comments and not on hot button issues. The reason users like Pewdiepie haven't been cancelling his comments is because he has to have a way to communicate with his "bros." That's what his "Friday's with Pewdiepie" series is all about, and if he blocks the comments regularly, he cannot do that. He has been doing it on some videos however because of this issue. And I personally think that "ARE YOU JUST GONNA WATCH ME BURN?! - TTT" is a hot button top topic to limit cyber bullying.

3.) It does sound like they make sense, but the users that are having their videos flagged are completely innocent because all they do is review games, like the AngryJoeShow and TotalBiscuit and show clips of the game in their reviews. They HAVE to, to make their game review backed up with evidence. AngryJoeShow's recent videos have shown that for example his Skyrim review was flagged by not surprisingly Bethesda, the makers of Skyrim because he talked to them about this. It was infact being claimed by the "Ministry of sound UK." And the reason for that was because that company had noticed a literal 17 seconds of music that had apparently belonged to them somehow. 17 seconds of a song playing in the background and a small clip like 3 seconds that belonged to them. Which, AngryJoe had no idea who these guys were and I bet noone else did either. This company was clearly flagging his video just to harvest money off that video. Check out his video here for more information and his opinion on it all. http://youtu.be.... The people being flagged are not posting up long winded soundtracks to games or posting up movies or anything. They aren't copyrighting, they have legitimate permission to be allowed to do this because of what they do.

In conclusion, that is my statement. And yes, thank you for accepting this debate. And I still believe that Google just needs to change everything and move back to the old system. Youtube themselves could easily do the few good things that Google did themselves without the 'help' of them.
Deanovan

Con

I'm going to mimic your format so that we have this debate be nice and clean the whole way through.

I'm just gonna run down my opponent's list, but what i have noticed is he has strayed far from the topic of what the title states "google needs to get off youtube."

1) my opponents first point in its round was a very mixed message to me. essentially to summarize it: yes the comment section is cleaner,but nothings different and things goth better because the youtubers told them to and things didn't get better. of couse I'm very much over simplifying his first contention but essentially he has said that things are better but they aren't and he has no solution for it. my opponent has just kinda written words and sentences to try and stop my argument but he proposes no solution and if his solution is for google to leave: that will do nothing. in fact it will do harm because google OWNS youtube so them leaving will just leave a worse off version of youtube that is primitive and loses money for all the youtubers. esentually my opponent has shed no light on this subject so my argument flows through.

2) google+ intagration. google+, whether you like it or not will never go away unless google sells youtube. google+ is how you sign into google applications. but as i think my opponent agreed he said: "Google integration is no don't good for organizing and all that, but content creators like me shouldn't be FORCED to integrate our accounts in with Google." now it sounds like he agreed at some point, but even if he didn't, google+ is unarguably useful. cause even if you don't like it you don't have to customize your page you have the choice to convert out old accounts to google plus, and just don't touch it. but heres the other thing. you SHOULD be force to integrate with google+, because its a google website. if you want to use a google site, sign up for the site like the rest of humans will now and in the future. as for the other changes (i understand that his arguments are out dated) the comment section is far better with new tools like hash tagging, and direct responses by +someone. video responses are back and the comment section has had a lot of cleaning done. so overall the tools are fixed and better as my opponent even agreed with (i think). but when the video responses were gone and the comment section was screwed up google listened to the users and fixed it for them. so now we have an amazing new and shiny youtube that we should all enjoy. looking over this whole contention this cannot be fixed by "google getting off of youtube" as the title states. and since this is the argument an my opponent is in the pro. he essentially is off topic.

3) well my opponents "legitimate" concerns have all been addressed by me so i guess its up to the voters if google getting off youtube will fix any of my opponent concerns.

Next re rebuttal section area thing:

1) well you are right, google has changed things, but you are really under selling it. they made the changes that your mr repzion was complaining about like the video responses and the comment section especially. both of those have changed dramatically. for the better. anon who goes to youtube right now can see that. bob and his silly following (we both agree bob is silly.) is gone for two reasons. 1. google fixed it. 2. they count as spam so google fixed it with their new and improved comment section. also they aren't punishing anyone. they stopped spam, like we've been begging for years to happen. the only thing that has happened is we've been smitten by amazing useful new tools that you can opt to not use.

2) the reason angryjoe and totalbiscuit have these problems is that THEY ARE COPYWRITING. and while i agree that they company should get a percentage for what they use, this is not googles fault. it's the other companies fault. I'm a democrat, so i don't take the side of large corporations often, but google has been humble, understanding, and helpful. this is not their fault. the youtube head quarters are working to fix this as we debate. if you wanted to debate that copy write on youtube should be changed right now you should have specified in the title but this is a debate on google getting off youtube which would solve nothing. as for the disabling of comments, you are right, he dosnt. being a bro myself i watch all of his videos, and he as stopped disabling comments because of the changes google made. pewdiepie no longer has to hide his comments because of the great new comment section. and i love TTT and when i said hot button issues to limit cyberbulling i mean only certain videos on certain channels, like some channels when thy talk about suicide. but basically the rest of your contention proved my point of them not disabling comments cause google fixed the comment section.

3)as for the third contention it is basically the same as the second for i will leave it at that.

all in all i will refute my opponents case. but he is completely of topic. the debate is google needs to get off youtube. and they shouldn't as i proved in my first con argument. my contentions are mixed in with my rebuttals so i won't go over them again. all of the issues that my opponent point out are off topic and won't be solved by google getting off youtube.also google OWNS youtube. they aren't just helping hey own the rights to do what they want thats why google+ is there and thats why youtube is so great now. google should not get off they are making youtube a more fun place, which is what youtube is for: fun.

thanks for another round. is there a way to shorten it to 3 or 4 rounds though? i think that 5 is a bit much, but thanks again and i can't wait for more debate.
Debate Round No. 2
A_Flying_Toaster

Pro

Four rounds it is, then. Sadly I cannot change the amount of rounds after I post a debate. Sorry for that. At round five, just post "Conclusion" if you want it to be done. Anyways...

For your first point I would like to point out that no, I was not straying from the topic at all, actually I was getting more in depth into your points as to refute them individually to strengthen my argument,.

1.) This is a debate, and my solution IS Google changing the problems back, leaving ownership, and leaving it behind. And I don't mean to be politically incorrect here if I am being as such but, stop assuming, please. Saying stuff like "Essentially, my opponent has shed no light on this subject so my argument flows through" gives the impression you think of yourself as self-righteous. Not a good trait to have. Anyways, yes. But you see, Google did not always own Youtube, they should hand back Youtube to the original owners after they have fixed what they did.

2-3.) Very true on that behalf but it should not have to. And no, I did not agree in the slightest, I was implying. I don't agree with the integration at all. Assumptions. Google+'s usefulness is debatable to person to person but that is not what we are talking about. And you're argument that Google should be able to force its users to integrate? It very much should! That is part of business freedom. But if the users have been actively claiming their distaste in the business practice of forced integration for this long still, they should have enough reasoning to go "Hey, customers don't like this, we'll change it back." But, it's simple really. What they are thinking about is not their users, but the money stuffed in their pockets. That, is one of the many reasons why I think this integration is ridiculous. And Youtube used to be just an individual site separate from Google. What if someone doesn't like Google's business and doesn't want to give them money by making a Google account, thus also giving them forced integration on Youtube. People should have the freedom to simply just go on Youtube without Google's changes on it, because clearly people don't like it. And I don't know where you are getting information that video responses are back but so far, I haven't seen it. And the comment system? Still not fixed all of its problems either.

Rebuttal Section:

1.) I cannot really see much changes, the problems appear to still be present. You still imply that the bob spam was taken out because of Google. Okay, no that isn't it. Like the Harlem shake, the bob spam died very fast. It's how the Internet guess. Bob had his fifteen minutes of fame for the Internet then just faded away like any other silly or annoying or whatever the Internet liked, went away. Like always. Google had nothing to do with it. And clearly their spam program doesn't work otherwise bob and his army would have been stopped at their doorstep so to speak.

2-3.) And no, they aren't really at all, as I said in the last argument. Do read it again. And yes, it is Google's fault. They gave the company's this permission to leech off youtubers with this new faulty content ID system. Humble? I don't know, that's not really relevant. Understanding? Is that why they have been ignoring criticism? If they were helpful, they would not be reaching out for more money greedily and taking it away from others and like I said, listening to their users. And if you have proof as to them fixing this as we debate right now, I would love to see the proof. And sure, your final argument about sounds reasonable but that has not been happening. Mrrepzion's channel touches on those dark issues now and then and that has not happened to him. Why? Well, we know why.

In conclusion, I want to communicate with my opponent that I am not getting off topic. I am defending my opinion by going in depth against your own opinions and showing why they are false or irrelevant. Getting more in depth into the argument rather than getting "completely off topic" as you assume. And to anyone reading this, I'll say it again. I believe that Google should just leave Youtube. By the way, your grammar and spelling got a bit sloppy. But this is or was a fun debate, thank you for it. :)
Deanovan

Con

im soooo sorry about the "flowing trough" its a public forum debate style. basically when somthing is not directely adressed or not to my satisfaction i say that, and so you have to recover from that. the point of the debate is basically for me to incriminate your case. i will stop that if you want though ;p thats also why i adress you as "my opponent" its the way i have to debate in tournaments. i promise that the only trait of narcisism/self righteousness i let off is masterbation. lol

i will continue to refute each point in ordor my opponent brought it up.

1) so the idea is for google to leave ownership to inturn make youtube better, and my side is to keep google to make youtube better. i understand and correct me if im wrong in the next round.
but google has made youtube hundreds of times better. and also made them alot more money. now that google puts on bigger events like the y.t.m.a (youtube music awards) and the rewind youtube 2013. they rake in money to in turn pay for youtubers like totalbuiscuit and angryjoeshow. handing back youtube would cause a drop in money, fireing employees, and much smaller versions of the events i mentioned earlier. but i will get into this again later.

2) googles usefulness is NOT debateable because all it did was add stuff. not take away. if you dont want to use it you dont have to. and it is absolutely part of what we are debating. if google drops youtube then we lose all of the tools like hashtaging and someone. as for the google intagration we seem to agree that its ok, even right (im assuming). but when clients dont like it, they change it. and google has made drastic changes because of user distaste. but they are trying to make somthing like facebook that is always there. google is new and scary, i get it, but this is how the internet has worked forever. somthing new comes and people just get used to it as the product matures. google getting of youtube is not how we fix it. and the reason they have intagration is so that users of other google apps can use youtube easily and startup and join the community. yes this makes money for them, but thats what companys are supposed to do. just cause things arent perfect now dosent mean they are screwing us over. to make money they have to keep us happy and subscribed. so no. they arent giving us the finger, they are trying to help as much as possible. them leaving would be detimental because those that we like: joe and total buisicuit, and shane dawson and joey graceffa would lose money.

3) i dont know why people wouldnt like google. they have the most popular browser: chrome, and they are the most popular search engine: google. the people who dislike google so much that they dont want to use youtube is a miniscule minority. its a dumb hypothetical to pull uneducated voters to my opponent's side. infact the opposite is true. google is so popular that it has added more members and added more users to the new and improved youtube. hey at least its not bing.
to continue video respnses are back. they are in a slightly diferent format but raywilliamjohnson gets them for his podcast, runaway thoughts. and the comment section will have to be up to the voters. i just want to point out the new hashtags. the more organized reply system, the ability to turn off replying and likes and dislikes. and the new censorship. the censorship limits spam and hateful comments like never before. of course youtube comments will always be dirty but theere is a huge improvement that will only get better.

opponents rebbutals:

1) my opponent stated:bob was not stopped by google. But he was. you can tell because if you post a bob comment it will be flagged and hidden for spam. google had to change their system to fit user's complaints, and in turn stop bob. so thats why the change was not immidiate.

2) now my opponent mis interpreted this argument, and that is my fault. i worded it poorly but this is still not googles fault, in fact giving it back to youtube, would be detrimental because they have less authority and money to fight off these companies trying to claim videos. but more importantly google is not to blame. it is the companies themselves that flag for copyright. google is a very liberal company and has tried their damnedest to be pure, humble, and NOT greedy since the company's foundation. they are not "stuffing their pockets". and google getting off youtube sure as hell won't help. and finally. i want to say that this is not because of google its a problem that video game producers who don't do things correctly face. smash games and pew die pie don't face this problem because they have their copyright legality down. joe and total biscuit are obviously doing something wrong.

my final focus:

my opponent has clarified the debate topic for me so i want to explain why google needs to stay, and why google is important to the website and the community.

youtube is not free. the way you pay for youtube is by watching ads. so more views on videos= more money

1) money. google has money. google pays for the big events like the music award i mentioned earlier. this way more views pays for the company to pay for more events and a better more advanced youtube. so they can fix the problems my opponent had addressed. that way we can have more events like geek week and live shows.

2) google has publicity. google can rake in more members by using google+ integration. so people with a gmail or other google applications, have a easy way to join the youtube community and view videos.

google has done wonders for youtube, in the event market and by patching and making youtube a better more fun experience. so i urge voters to vote in the con. because in the pro world; youtube is primitive and a smaller community with a lot less money to do fun stuff. while in the con world youtube is a place where users and creators can have fun and make everyone happy.
Debate Round No. 3
A_Flying_Toaster

Pro

Final round! Let us begin! Remember, at round five, if you choose not to continue, just say "Conclusion" in the debate thing that comes up. And make your response to this your final one. Same format as always.

1.) Yes, that is correct. But bear in mind, I believe that keeping them here will cause more problems and sending them away will prevent them. You are correct, however. And if they did rake in money as such to pay them, then why are they allowing businesses to flag any videos they please? Businesses flagging videos doesn't even grant youtube money, it grants the business who flagged the video money. And it wouldn't really cause a firing of anyone really. I doubt Google would fire a bunch of people just because they don't own Youtube anymore. Drop in money? Sure, that'll happen. But hey, so what if they're overflowing pockets aren't that stuffed anymore? They're still going to be rich fat cats. And much smaller versions? Eh, just because those are gone doesn't ruin Youtube in the slightest. And Youtube themselves could make their own version of it later on once they take back ownership.

2.) Google's usefulness is debatable.. Just because they added stuff doesn't mean that people didn't like what they added, which a lot of people like myself didn't. It is debatable to person to person because surprise, humans aren't all the same. Infact, it shows right here that that very statement isn't true. Debating over how useful it is. Just because some stuff isn't taken away (Which there was by the way, video responses) doesn't mean it is automatically good. And yes we do have to use it because it is forced integration. You can't get out of it. It is forced. And we may lose those from Google, but then the people at Youtube who I bet will actually listen to the users will add hash tagging themselves. As for the Google integration? Forced? Wrong. It being forced is a thing that shouldn't be done. It isn't right. Tell me one drastic change they've made. They are trying to make something like facebook?

Youtube should NEVER be like Facebook. You see, let me tell you the difference between facebook and youtube. Facebook is a social network for everyone to be able to easily communicate with eachother. Where organizations can get noticed better, and for many other reasons. Youtube is a website determined on storing millions of videos for everyone to watch. A media network. That's the difference and why they shouldn't BE making Youtube be like Facebook if they are trying that. And no, Google is not really new and scary to us, its just sorta lame. And yes, but that's not what we're talking about. Yes, integration is fine. Forced integration is not. And yes, you're right. But they aren't fixing any of the things that we have complained about to them, so if this keeps up, they are screwing us over. Helping us? Come on, during all what they are doing, I have skepticism in that statement. Joey Graceffa and Shane Dawson aren't the ones getting their videos flagged. It's video gamers and video game reviewers and pretty much anyone who does anything with video games who are having their videos flagged. And those who are having their videos flagged? They ARE losing money and their accounts can end up being TERMINATED by this. They already are because of what Google is doing.

3.) I never said that people do not like Google. I am basically saying people do not like their business practices on Youtube. Popularity isn't the case, I think you're missing the point. I didn't put up this debate to try to convince Google going to the ground. I am just saying they need to leave Youtube. And to your entire second paragraph, yes. And I want to point out to the voters these things:
1.) Fail content ID system.
2.) No video responses.
3.)The fact that the ability to turn off likes and dislikes was available before this.
4.) Censorship at its worst, just made off greed.

Rebuttal section:
1.) Yes, Bob disappears now because not EVERY Youtuber does it anymore. To say that Google is responsible for getting rid of Bob is to say a player in a Halo game won the whole match just because he got the last kill. Of course they get rid of Bob now, because it is easy to get rid of it when all the users on Youtube are not spamming it.

2.) Your argument is invalid on this one, if Google is withdrawn from Youtube, then so is that system. So businesses can't do it anymore at all. Your third argument in this, the businesses were allowed to do this because Google is letting them. And I'd like to say right here, that you want to know why they don't flag Pewdiepie's or Smosh's videos? Because they have an overwhelming majority of fans and provide money to Youtube and attention. If businesses started flagging their videos, my case would strengthen greatly, and they know that. And AngryJoe and TotalBiscuit aren't doing anything wrong. They have checked rules, given credit, and are not breaking a single one. I challenge you to go and find one rule that they are honestly breaking. And show the proof. One. One rule they break that the companies do not allow. I challenge you.

Voters, I won't lie to you. Look at all that Google is doing. They are screwing us over and don't give a damn for the users or content creators out there. On my opponents final focus for number 1, Youtube will be able to do the exact same thing on their own. Because I bet my money that they will listen more than Google is, and do everything that Google did right, and nothing that Google did wrong. Number 2, integration is fine. However, forced integration, is NOT. Do you want to be forced to use your Google+ account for Youtube? I know I don't. I request voters to urge for pro in this, I won't tell you what Youtube will be like but from its like right now and some of my predictions of what will happen if it is handed back to Youtube themselves, its better than what we have right now.
Deanovan

Con

Ok final round. i promise round 5 will be my last response. unless my opponent uses his round 5 for another argument. again i hope you will all forgive my public forum debate style.

i would like to use this round as my final focus, to summarize the debate up to this point, and then tell you why it is better, here in the "con world", where google does not leave youtube, things are better. but first, a few brief touch ups on the contentions and rebuttals.

1) google staying will lead to more events like the rewinds, the music awards and geek week. this we both seem to agree on.
now about companies flagging videos. ITS NOT GOOGLE FAULT. google cannot legally do anything. this is why i keep saying google is trying to fix it. to quote my opponent. "Businesses flagging videos doesn't even grant youtube money, it grants the business who flagged the video money." he is absolutely right, youtube/ google doesn't get anything. THEY ARENT DOING IT ON PURPOSE. google doesn't like to just torture their youtube partners. they just have to work around the legality. if google were to leave youtube would have to work around the same problems but they wouldn't have the money an authority that google brings. and with a loss of money that youtube would face, they would have to fire some people at youtube. or they are going to downgrade youtube A LOT. and the drop in money, we agree on this youtube will lose money, I'm not worried about google losing money after they hypothetically leave. and when youtube loses money we get a down graded version of youtube. a much less fun version of youtube. google leaving would cause a loss of money, which means less fun events, less tools and a primitive version of youtube. my opponent said "And much smaller versions? Eh, just because those are gone doesn't ruin Youtube in the slightest" essentially saying that won't happen cause it won't, which is a logical fallacy of circular argument. and for the part where my opponent said that youtube can just fix themselves, i will really hit on this point later in the debate.

2) google+ is very useful. the only reason people don't think it is useful is because they still feel angst from the days where bob and his army could run around freely in the comment section. now that, that is fixed the comments are relevant to the video things are un arguably better. its just leftover angst. the comment section has more censoring plus has more tools like hashtaging, +someone, and a comment translator. and best part. if people like my opponent don't like it. just make a regular comment like a regular person. but those of us who strive for a better future for youtube actually use all the tools to make better comments. video responses are still here. but my opponent said somethings are gone. like what? things were only added. as for forced integration, my opponent is just looking at it wrong. its not force integration it is just changing the sign up system so its google+ which is really good for youtube, as i will explain later. drastic change? ramp up censorship in the comments so that bob and his army is gone. youtube should share somethings with Facebook. youtube is a community. so we have to stay connected. Facebook is intagrated into so many things and thats what we want to happen to google+, and in turn bringing new members to youtube. as for the video gamers. they lose money because they don't do things right. pew die pie doesn't have trouble because he does it right. and again, NOT GOOGLES FAULT. blame the actual companies who work around the law. blame the law because it allows it.

3) and i don't care what happens to google. but them leaving youtube would be detimetntal to youtube. thats what I've been getting at. but them staying means that they can use their popularity to make youtube bigger and better.
1) working on it
2) yes their is. look at runaway thoughts on youtube. they use video responses
3) just using that as a rebuttal
4) it is fixed, i.e. bob is gone, spam has decreased, and hateful comments have decreased. and how on earth do you use comments for greed? answer is you can't and it is a dumb point

rebuttals

1) well then they greatly helped. i just use bob as my example of spam. but googles new comment section has decreased all forms of spam. also when i say you tuber i am referring to youtube partners. like angry joe and shane Dawson. not regular members.

2)I've addressed this a lot. not googles fault. the only reason it happens now. is that because google bought youtube, companies start to realize the power of youtube. now if google leaves youtube has to fight it off without the money of google.

my final FINAL focus:

this is the way websites work. for example twitter. twitter is not profitable. buuuuut the company is worth so much that someone can buy it and help twitter out. thats the way things work. websites build an audience, which twitter and youtube have done. now a company buys it and makes it profitable and makes it better. thats how it works, and i get how change is scary, but we need to move forward and accept the good changes that google has brought. i understand the past angs that we have felt because of bob. forced integration, I'm so sorry for all the new tools that you are forced to have the option to use. the only real argument my opponent had was the copyright, and i shut that down time and time again in this debate. its not googles fault. so lets look at the hypothetical pro world and the con world that we are heading into:

Pro world: google leaves and youtube loses money. everything down grades, and we no longer have fun events like the music awards and geek week. we have companies running down youtube to no end because youtube doesn't have the authority to fight them off

con world (my world and the world we are heading towards if we all just calm down): google integration brings in new members and new revenue. we have plenty of new events like geek week. and most importantly new tools make youtube more fun for everyone.

i urge all voters to vote in the con of this debate because google has made youtube better already, and will only continue my opponents arguments have all been shut down and so i just want you to vote based on the fact that google will make youtube more fun, and thats what youtube is made for: fun.
Debate Round No. 4
A_Flying_Toaster

Pro

And that is the conclusion to the debate! Voters, choose whoever you agree with after you read this entire debate and I hope you have happy holidays and a lovely new year that is to come. Cheers to that, yes Deanovan? Happy holidays to all of ya!
Deanovan

Con

absolutely. thanks for the great debate. i would like to remind voters to vote un bias. vote on who convinced you in the argument. great job in the debate. hope to debate with you again. and happy holidays to everyone
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Deanovan 2 years ago
Deanovan
well good debate friend
Posted by A_Flying_Toaster 2 years ago
A_Flying_Toaster
I do not mind that people do not see it for now. It will stay here for a long while, just for people to see. I want this to be here for people to see both sides of the story and think for themselves.
Posted by Deanovan 2 years ago
Deanovan
well flyingtoaster. looks like we might have a empty audiance
No votes have been placed for this debate.