The Instigator
The-Ultimate-debater
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Cooldudebro
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Government in India should set up brothels and amend anti-prostitution laws.

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The-Ultimate-debater
Voting Style: Judge Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/27/2016 Category: News
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 515 times Debate No: 88848
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (2)

 

The-Ultimate-debater

Pro

Before I start the debate, people, especially from India, please sign this petition in the site mentioned below to legalize prostitution in India.

http://www.indianvoice.org...

Now for the debate, I argue that government in India should set up brothels run by itself to stop crime against women like r*pe and m*lestation. Here are the reasons in detail which is also mentioned in the site above:

1.) IPC 377 was decriminalized. So, why not prostitution?

2.) There are many r**e and mol*station cases around in this nation.

a.) The r**ist even if he is punished, it does not bring back the lost honour of the girl/woman.

b.) Both the life of the r**ist and the victim is damaged in this way.

3.) It may be a source of earning for the unemployed.

4.) Not legalizing prostitution forces the agents and the prostitutes to charge higher rates from their customers as they have to do it secretly and may have to bribe authorities for their activities to continue.

a.) Higher rates forces the customers to gain income or cash illegally which increases the crime rate more.

b.) It leads to bribing of officials which increases in demoralization of code of conducts of public officials.

5.) Extra-source of income as taxes etc. can be created by legalization for the government.

6.) Legalizing prostitution does not encourage trafficking, but on the contrary reduces them as more frequent checks can be made on brothels as we now know that where they function when licenses are issued to them and we can obtain consent letters from the sex workers.

a.) On the contrary, making prostitution illegal encourages trafficking more than its legality as brothels still function as we all know in a concealed and stealth manner, which makes it even difficult to find out girls and women who are trafficked.

b.) Also, if it is illegal, then many girls and women would not join this profession even if they wanted to because it is illegal, and therefore, it encourages the pimps and other agents to force many girls and women to this profession.

7.) When Delhi High Court decriminalized IPC-377, it was mentioned that it violates 'human rights' of an individual mentioned in the constitution, because when consensual gay adults are having intercourse in closed doors, they are not harming anyone. Somewhat similarly, when two gay people where not looked upon as criminals at once upon a time, then why should normal and moreover natural and healthy sexual relationship between a man and a woman be a crime, which is also happening behind closed doors, just because the consent of sexual relationship is obtained by giving money by the man, and the money belongs to him too?

8.) On health grounds, it can be debated that there can be a fear of spread of diseases like HIV/AIDS and other STDs etc. but to which we can counter with reasons that it can be controlled by distributing condoms and each sex worker can be mandated to get herself medically examined after regular intervals.

9.) It is quite possible that men who do not have access to women for their sexual needs may become gay to satisfy their lusts. This would be in violation of IPC 377 which was recently criminalized again by the Supreme court of India. Thus, criminalizing prostitution is itself giving reason for another crime to happen. Legalizing prostitution, on the contrary, may prevent men from breaking the IPC 377 section.

10.) Last debating point given by the people are that it may harm the culture or morality.

a.) As regards culture, it is quite baseless to boast that Indian culture never had prostitution and if someone says that, it means that he/she did not read the Indian history completely. Presently, GB road brothels operating in Delhi as de jure are functioning there only because in Mughal era it had Kothas. Therefore, it has roots from the history and culture itself.

b.) Morality does not make anyone smart and a smart person need not be moralistic. The best example and the biggest proof is Albert Einstein who was a pervert, but still became a great scientist. Had morality made anyone smart then the industrial revolution would have been introduced to the world by Arabs and not Europeans who were highly perverted as compared to them. :)


We can thus see that legalization of prostitution solves many problems than it creates. We should therefore, not ignore such big profit over few losses.

SO, IF YOU DO NOT AGREE THAT GOVERNMENT OF INDIA SHOULD SET UP BROTHELS IN INDIA AND AMEND ANTI-PROSTITUTION LAWS THEN YOU CAN START DEBATING WITH ME BY ACCEPTING THE CHALLENGE!

P.S.: PLS NOTE THAT IN MY PREVIOUS DEBATES SOME EUNUCHS ACCEPTED THE CHALLENGE BUT DID NOT HAVE THE GUTS AND SMARTNESS TO CONTINUE THE DEBATE AND FORFEITED THE ROUNDS. THEREFORE, I SUGGEST AND REQUEST THAT ONLY SERIOUS, DEDICATED AND SMART PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN DEBATING AND ARE UNLIKELY TO FORFEIT THE ROUNDS TO ACCEPT THIS CHALLENGE.
Cooldudebro

Con

Point 1: STDs and How Long It Can Take To Show Up

Sexually transmitted diseases can take a long time to show up in an infected individual. For this argument, I'll be giving three common sexually transmitted diseases along with how long it may take the person to develop symptoms or for it to be detected by tests.

HPV:
Testing:
For HPV, there is currently no testing for men (1)
"The average incubation period, which begins immediately after the initial sexual contact with an infected person, is usually two to three months but can range from one to 20 months. However, when HPV is transmitted from one person to another, the virus infects the top layers of the skin and can remain inactive or latent for months or possibly years before warts or other signs of HPV infection appear. In couples that have not had sex partners for many years, the woman may develop an abnormal Pap smear because of previous contact." (2)
What it causes:
"

HPV can cause cervical and other cancers cancers including cancer of the vulva, vagina, penis, or anus. It can also cause cancer in the back of the throat, including the base of the tongue and tonsils (called oropharyngeal cancer).

Cancer often takes years, even decades, to develop after a person gets HPV. The types of HPV that can cause genital warts are not the same as the types of HPV that can cause cancers.

There is no way to know which people who have HPV will develop cancer or other health problems. People with weak immune systems (including individuals with HIV/AIDS) may be less able to fight off HPV and more likely to develop health problems from it." (3)

Treatment:
There is a vaccine that will prevent some of the strains of HPV before the initial infection.

HIV:
Testing:

"Even if a prostitute is being tested every week for HIV, she will test negative for at least the first 4-6 weeks and possibly the first 12 weeks after being infected.... This means that while the test is becoming positive and the results are becoming known, that prostitute may expose up to 630 clients to HIV. This is under the best of circumstances with testing every week and a four-week window period. It also assumes that the prostitute will quit working as soon as he or she finds out the test is HIV positive, which is highly unlikely. This is not the best approach for actually reducing harm. Instead, in order to slow the global spread of HIV/AIDS we should focus our efforts on abolishing prostitution." (4)

What it Causes:
"

HIV infection weakens your immune system, making you highly susceptible to numerous infections and certain types of cancers.

Infections common to HIV/AIDS
  • Tuberculosis (TB). In resource-poor nations, TB is the most common opportunistic infection associated with HIV and a leading cause of death among people with AIDS.
  • Cytomegalovirus. This common herpes virus is transmitted in body fluids such as saliva, blood, urine, semen and breast milk. A healthy immune system inactivates the virus, and it remains dormant in your body. If your immune system weakens, the virus resurfaces — causing damage to your eyes, digestive tract, lungs or other organs.
  • Candidiasis. Candidiasis is a common HIV-related infection. It causes inflammation and a thick, white coating on the mucous membranes of your mouth, tongue, esophagus or vagina.
  • Cryptococcal meningitis. Meningitis is an inflammation of the membranes and fluid surrounding your brain and spinal cord (meninges). Cryptococcal meningitis is a common central nervous system infection associated with HIV, caused by a fungus found in soil.
  • Toxoplasmosis. This potentially deadly infection is caused by Toxoplasma gondii, a parasite spread primarily by cats. Infected cats pass the parasites in their stools, and the parasites may then spread to other animals and humans.
  • Cryptosporidiosis. This infection is caused by an intestinal parasite that's commonly found in animals. You contract cryptosporidiosis when you ingest contaminated food or water. The parasite grows in your intestines and bile ducts, leading to severe, chronic diarrhea in people with AIDS."

(5)

Treatment and its side effects:

There's no cure for HIV/AIDS, but a variety of drugs can be used in combination to control the virus. Each class of anti-HIV drugs blocks the virus in different ways. It's best to combine at least three drugs from two classes to avoid creating strains of HIV that are immune to single drugs.

HIV treatment regimens may involve taking multiple pills at specific times every day for the rest of your life. Side effects can include:

  • Nausea, vomiting or diarrhea
  • Heart disease
  • Weakened bones or bone loss
  • Breakdown of muscle tissue (rhabdomyolysis)
  • Abnormal cholesterol levels
  • Higher blood sugar levels"
(6)

Due to a character limit, these are all the disease I will cover.

In Conclusion Regarding Point 1:

Many sexually transmitted diseases take a while to show up in testing. For instance, HIV can take up to twelve weeks to show up.

It is unsafe and immoral to approve this type of behavior.

This would lead to more STD infections as quoted by Jeffery J. Barrows.


Case 2: Sex Trafficing

This argument will be quoted:

"Legalized or decriminalized prostitution industries are one of the root causes of sex trafficking. One argument for legalizing prostitution in the Netherlands was that legalization would help to end the exploitation of desperate immigrant women who had been trafficked there for prostitution. However, one report found that 80% of women in the brothels of the Netherlands were trafficked from other countries (Budapest Group, 1999)(1). In 1994, the International Organization of Migration (IOM) stated that in the Netherlands alone, “nearly 70 % of trafficked women were from CEEC [Central and Eastern European Countries]” (IOM, 1995, p. 4). The government of the Netherlands presents itself as a champion of antitrafficking policies and programs, yet it has removed every legal impediment to pimping, procuring and brothels. In the year 2000, the Dutch Ministry of Justice argued in favor of a legal quota of foreign “sex workers,” because the Dutch prostitution market demanded a variety of “bodies” (Dutting, 2001, p. 16).In the year since lifting the ban on brothels in the Netherlands, eight Dutch victim support organizations reported an increase in the number of victims of trafficking, and twelve victim support organization reported that the number of victims from other countries has not diminished (Bureau NRM, 2002, p. 75). Forty-three of the 348 municipalities (12%) in the Netherlands choose to follow a no-brothel policy, but the Minister of Justice has indicated that the complete banning of prostitution within any municipality could conflict with the federally guaranteed “right to free choice of work” (Bureau NRM, 2002, p.19). " (7)

Case 3: Legalized Prostitution Increases Illegal Prostitution

"Legalization was supposed to get prostituted women off the street. Many women don't want to register and undergo health checks, as required by law in certain countries legalizing prostitution, so legalization often drives them into street prostitution. And many women choose street prostitution because they want to avoid being controlled and exploited by the new sex "businessmen.

The argument that legalization was supposed to take the criminal elements out of sex businesses by strict regulation of the industry has failed. The real growth in prostitution in Australia since legalization took effect has been in the illegal sector. Since the onset of legalization in Victoria, brothels have tripled in number and expanded in size - the vast majority having no licenses but advertising and operating with impunity" (7)

With prostitution legalized, many workers will not want to go through health checks. They may also not want to use a condom if the client offers them a cash incentive. Therefore, legalizing prostitution makes illegal prostitution worse.

Case 4: Increase in Child Prostitution

"

nother argument for legalizing prostitution in the Netherlands was that it would help end child prostitution. In reality, however, child prostitution in the Netherlands has increased dramatically during the 1990s. The Amsterdam-based ChildRight organization estimates that the number has gone from 4,000 children in 1996 to 15,000 in 2001. The group estimates that at least 5,000 of the children in prostitution are from other countries, with a large segment being Nigerian girls (Tiggeloven: 2001).

Child prostitution has dramatically risen in Victoria compared to other Australian states where prostitution has not been legalized. Of all the states and territories in Australia, the highest number of reported incidences of child prostitution came from Victoria. In a 1998 study undertaken by ECPAT (End Child Prostitution and Trafficking) who conducted research for the Australian National Inquiry on Child Prostitution, there was increased evidence of organized commercial exploitation of children."

We should no object children to such a cruel fate just to see prostitution legalized.


In Conclusion:
Legalized Prostitution makes STD transmission rates rise
Legalized Prostitution makes illegal prositution rates rise
Legalized Prostitution makes children more likely to become prostitutes
Legalized Prostitution leads to an increase in sex and human trafficking



Due to a character limit, that is all I shall post. Arigatou!


Anime OP:
http://tinyurl.com...
http://tinyurl.com...


1. http://www.cdc.gov...
2. https://www.health.ny.gov...
3. http://www.mayoclinic.org...
4. Jeffrey J. Barrows, D.O.
Health Consultant on Human Trafficking for the Christian Medical Association
"HIV and Prostitution: What's the Answer?" The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity
5. http://www.mayoclinic.org...
6. http://www.mayoclinic.org...
7. http://tinyurl.com...;
Debate Round No. 1
The-Ultimate-debater

Pro

Point 1: STDs and How Long It Can Take To Show Up

Since the argument is about time taken for discovery of HIV, I agree that it takes time for its discovery.

1.) However, as science is progressing, many people are being cured or functiionally cured of HIV/AIDS. It is very likely that soon a complete cure will be discovered.

Here are the sites to support my claim:
a.) https://en.wikipedia.org...
b.) http://www.fredhutch.org...
c.) https://www.poz.com...
d.) https://en.wikipedia.org...
e.) http://www.treatmentactiongroup.org...


2.) When we are making it illegal to have intercourse without using condoms, I find it rarely possible to anyone to contact HIV/AIDS. It is more safer than consensual and non-consensual sex were money is not involved.

a.) It is unlikely that the sex worker is engaging in intercourse without using condoms everytime so it is not that the desease may become viral. If a customer carelessly has sex with her without using condoms then it is not likely that all 630 customers will also be careless and have sex without using condoms, moreover, when there is a controlled enviroment system.

3.) Now-a-days, with the progression of science, new methods and kits are invented to detect HIV sooner than 4-6 weeks. Here is the website below which is the proof for the same.

http://www.catie.ca...

4.) On the contrary, AIDS spreads more faster in those countries where prostitution is illegal because of informal relationships and democracy people are more prone to reckless physical relationships when there is no organization to enforce safe sex. Here is the proof in this website below where it mentions about those countries ranking in top 10 having maximum number of HIV/AIDS cases and in all these 10 countries prostitution is illegal or not completely legal.

www.aneki.com/most_aids.html

Case 2: Sex Trafficing

1.) Legalizing prostitution does not encourage trafficking, but on the contrary reduces them as more frequent checks can be made on brothels as we now know that where they function when licenses are issued to them and we can obtain consent letters from the sex workers.

a.) On the contrary, making prostitution illegal encourages trafficking more than its legality as brothels still function as we all know in a concealed and stealth manner, which makes it even difficult to find out girls and women who are trafficked.

b.) Also, if it is illegal, then many girls and women would not join this profession even if they wanted to because it is illegal, and therefore, it encourages the pimps and other agents to force many girls and women to this profession.

2.) I specifically spoke of government owned and managed brothels to be set up. In government brothels, sex trafficking will not happen.

a.) The quote given for Netherlands is because of private brothels existing which can be a danger for sex trafficking. Government managed brothels will not encourage trafficking.

(Honourable Judges, pls note that con has committed a spelling mistake of the word 'Trafficking'. It is 'Trafficking' and not 'Trafficing'.)

Case 3: Legalized Prostitution Increases Illegal Prostitution

Suppose there is a rational customer, will he choose that brothel which is a.) Provides economical and less costly services, and b.) Which is legal, or that brothel which is a.) Costly, and b.) Is illegal and may land him up in jail for availing its services?

Therefore, government owned and managed brothels will automatically reduce illegal prostitution as people will willingly go for better benefit and choose to go with government brothels rather than for private (illegal) brothels where there is a risk of getting aprehended by law or contacting AIDS.

The examples given of Australia and Victoria is irrelevant as they were legalizing private brothels and I specifically stressed on government brothels during the start of the debate.

Case 4: Increase in Child Prostitution

Again, government brothels will never do something which is illegal. Child prostitution will be likely to happen only when the brothel is private. I specifically stressed on government brothels during the start of the debate.
Cooldudebro

Con

Rebuttals:

1. On the contrary, people are still dying of aids. These are statistics of aids and death in 2012. (1)


  • "Number of deaths: 6,955"


Obviously, if people are still dying of aids, it is rare to be cureable.

2. As for condoms, refer to argument 3. Prostitutes don't want the health check. They don't want to be exploited.

3. Citations, please? I have shown through my citation that women may not want to wear condoms for a potential boost in profit. Your word is not law.

4. Your data is skewed since it doesn't account for the medical care and awareness in the country. It also doesn't adjust for population size. It simply just states how much of the population have aids. This is not realiable data.

You did not address the other STDs; so I extend that argument.

Rebuttals V2:

1. Citation needed

Citations are needed for all of this. I have citations for my argument. Again, your word is not law.

My point stands firmly in place.

"The government of the Netherlands presents itself as a champion of antitrafficking policies and programs, yet it has removed every legal impediment to pimping, procuring and brothels. In the year 2000, the Dutch Ministry of Justice argued in favor of a legal quota of foreign “sex workers,” because the Dutch prostitution market demanded a variety of “bodies” (Dutting, 2001, p. 16). Also in 2000, the Dutch government sought and received a judgment from the European Court recognizing prostitution as an economic activity, thereby enabling women from the European Union and former Soviet bloc countries to obtain working permits as “sex workers” in the Dutch sex industry if they could prove that they are self employed. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in Europe report that traffickers use the work permits to bring foreign women into the Dutch prostitution industry, masking the fact that women have been trafficked, by coaching them to describe themselves as independent “migrant sex workers” (Personal Communication, Representative of the International Human Rights Network, 1999). In the year since lifting the ban on brothels in the Netherlands, eight Dutch victim support organizations reported an increase in the number of victims of trafficking, and twelve victim support organization reported that the number of victims from other countries has not diminished (Bureau NRM, 2002, p. 75). Forty-three of the 348 municipalities (12%) in the Netherlands choose to follow a no-brothel policy, but the Minister of Justice has indicated that the complete banning of prostitution within any municipality could conflict with the federally guaranteed “right to free choice of work” (Bureau NRM, 2002, p.19). The first steps toward legalization of prostitution in Germany occurred in the 1980s. By 1993, it was widely recognized that 75% of the women in Germany’s prostitution industry were foreigners from Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and 4 other countries in South America (Altink, 1993, p. 33). After the fall of the Berlin wall, 80% of the estimated 10,000 women trafficked into Germany were from Central and Eastern Europe and CIS countries (IOM. 1998a , p. 17). In 2002, prostitution in Germany was established as a legitimate job after years of being legalized in tolerance zones. Promotion of prostitution, pimping and brothels are now legal in Germany. The sheer volume of foreign women in the German prostitution industry suggests that these women were trafficked into Germany, a process euphemistically described as facilitated migration. It is almost impossible for poor women to facilitate their own migration, underwrite the costs of travel and travel documents, and set themselves up in “business” without intervention. In 1984, a Labor government in the Australian State of Victoria introduced legislation to legalize prostitution in brothels. Subsequent Australian governments expanded legalization culminating in the Prostitution Control Act of 1994. Noting the link between legalization of prostitution and trafficking in Australia, the US Department of State observed: “Trafficking in East Asian women for the sex trade is a growing problem…lax laws – including legalized prostitution in parts of the country – make [anti-trafficking] enforcement difficult at the working level” (U.S. Department of State, 2000, p. 6F). " (2)

Rebuttals V3.

Citation needed. Your word is not law. My case still stands.

This is relevant to the debate. It shows that even when offered a legal alternative, prostitutes will still conduct illegal business. Whether it's private or government maintained, it shows they will seek other alternatves.

Rebuttals V4.

Citations needed. Your word is not God.


Overall, my opponent lacks in his citations and has formulated a sloppy rebuttal. Citations are needed. His round one and two arguments lack in citations; thus aren't relevant.











1. http://tinyurl.com...;
2. http://www.embracedignity.org...;
Debate Round No. 2
The-Ultimate-debater

Pro

Rebuttals:

1. On the contrary, people are still dying of aids. These are statistics of aids and death in 2012. (1)



  • "Number of deaths: 6,955"



Obviously, if people are still dying of aids, it is rare to be cureable.

They maybe dying because a complete cure is still not discovered. Even if Timothy was fully cured, right now the cure maybe available only for the elite class. It takes time for the cure to become accessible for a common man.

Judges, you may have noted that it should be ‘AIDS’ in capitals and not ‘aids’ as Con stated.

2. As for condoms, refer to argument 3. Prostitutes don't want the health check. They don't want to be exploited.

What has medical examination got to do with exploitation in the first place? By the way, whether they like it or not but in a government brothel they have to go through medical tests. Even customers will prefer those call girls and sex workers who have gone through medical tests for HIV/AIDS. They may ask for health certificate before availing their services.

Judges, another grammatical mistake has been committed by Con as he/she stated, “Prostitutes don't want the health check”, which I am sure that you are smart enough to verify that it is a broken English.

3. Citations, please? I have shown through my citation that women may not want to wear condoms for a potential boost in profit. Your word is not law.

Are you blind or ignorant? I already mentioned a site as a citation which is http://www.catie.ca... where it is mentioned to detect HIV sooner maybe possible in future.

I already stated that I am talking about government owned and managed brothels where it is mandatory for sex workers to have safe sex. The cost of a condom is very nominal as compared to cost of sexual services provided by call girls. It costs around only Rs 100-500 (USD $2-7,8). It can become a law if you have the dedication to enforce it as a law. Every law is a word initially and becomes law through proper execution and enforcement. It is necessary for it be a word initially so that it can be debated that whether it is good for the society and practically applicable or not.

4. Your data is skewed since it doesn't account for the medical care and awareness in the country. It also doesn't adjust for population size. It simply just states how much of the population have aids. This is not realiable data.

Alright, then I guess you need the percentage. Even then, percentagewise also African countries top the list where generally prostitution is illegal. Pls go through this site which mentions percentage and not just number.

http://www.aneki.com...

Here, African nations of Swaziland, Lesotho, Botswana and South Africa top the list where prostitution is illegal.

Judges, AGAIN you may have noted that it should be ‘AIDS’ in capitals and not ‘aids’ as Con stated.

Also, he/she committed another spelling mistake as it is ‘reliable’ and not ‘realiable’.

You did not address the other STDs; so I extend that argument.

When I already addressed HIV/AIDS and told you that a cure will be available for them soon, your mentioning of other STDs is a weak argument. That is why I need not address it.

Btw, you also did not address my other points and argument like, it maybe a source of earning for the unemployed, it will reduce r**e and crime against women etc.

Rebuttals V2:

1. Citation needed

Why are citations needed when I mentioned the reasons? Can you explain it to me? I may not have a practical example. However, I did give a deductive reason.


Citations are needed for all of this. I have citations for my argument. Again, your word is not law.

Why do you need citations? The citations which you stated don’t seem to have even a remote connection with this debate. AGAIN, every law is a word initially and becomes law through proper execution and enforcement. It is necessary for it be a word initially so that it can be debated that whether it is good for the society and practically applicable or not.

During the start of the debate itself, I stated that it should be a law and therefore I agreed indirectly that it is not a law but it should be for which I gave reasons for it.

My point stands firmly in place.

Do not be overconfident, it does not stand firmly and it is limping as I have broken the bones in its legs by my arguments.


Rebuttals V3.

Citation needed. Your word is not law. My case still stands.

Why do you need citations? The citations which you stated don’t seem to have even a remote connection with this debate. AGAIN, every law is a word initially and becomes law through proper execution and enforcement. It is necessary for it be a word initially so that it can be debated that whether it is good for the society and practically applicable or not.

During the start of the debate itself, I stated that it should be a law and therefore I agreed indirectly that it is not a law but it should be for which I gave reasons for it.

You are again overconfident that your case still stands as I have broken the bones of your case by my arguments and it is limping.

This is relevant to the debate.

Good thing that you agreed to it finally.

It shows that even when offered a legal alternative, prostitutes will still conduct illegal business. Whether it's private or government maintained, it shows they will seek other alternatves.

Why would prostitutes conduct illegal business in the first place and even if they would, they will not get customers as if not the prostitute but their Johns or customers would prefer a safe environment.

Honourable Judges, another spelling mistake has been committed by Con as it is ‘alternatives’ and not ‘alternatves’.

Rebuttals V4.

Citations needed. Your word is not God.

Why do you need citations? The citations which you stated don’t seem to have even a remote connection with this debate. AGAIN, every law is a word initially and becomes law through proper execution and enforcement. It is necessary for it be a word initially so that it can be debated that whether it is good for the society and practically applicable or not.

During the start of the debate itself, I stated that it should be a law and therefore I agreed indirectly that it is not a law but it should be for which I gave reasons for it.

I am an atheist for your information so do not mention about God for matters relating to me. You should have verified that whether I believe in God or not if you were going to mention the word God in this debate.
I had backed my words with reasons and if you cannot identify those reasons then it is not my fault. I also, never mentioned directly or indirectly that my word is God so stop making baseless allegations.

Overall, my opponent lacks in his citations and has formulated a sloppy rebuttal. Citations are needed.

I can state citations only if there are enough reasons to do so.

His round one and two arguments lack in citations; thus aren't relevant.

Round one was the initial debate and therefore there was no reason for mentioning citations. However, it does not mean that it is irrelevant as there were enough reasons to back my claim and evidence is required only when there are reasons for doing so.

As regards Round two, I mentioned many websites as citations but Con seems to be blind and ignorant to not to notice them. I had mentioned sites which had information about cure for AIDS, kits which detect HIV sooner than usual, statistics of the countries with most AIDS cases etc. but Con has ignored all of them and baselessly stated that I did not give any citations.

Honourable Judges, I need to correct my spelling of a word in my previous round…

** Correction needed. I need to correct he spelling of ‘disease’ in my previous round.

**It is unlikely that the sex worker is engaging in intercourse without using condoms everytime so it is not that the disease may become viral.

It is ‘disease’ and not ‘desease’.

I have corrected it before anyone can point it out. Therefore, pls do not count it as a spelling mistake. Thank you.

Cooldudebro

Con

This is kinda sad. My opponent does not understand the importance of citations... Huh... How is this guy a debater, again?

Rebuttal V1:

1. My first source claims there is not a cure for aids. (1)

2. Since my opponent has pointed out a grammatical error I made while awed with the sheer stupidity of his case, allow me to reciprocate.

"By the way, whether they like it or not but in a government brothel they have to go through medical tests."

Your word does not peel back my source. You have not refuted my claim that, even when given legal alternatives, illegal prostitution rises when legal prostitution is in affect.

3.Again, even when given legal alternatives, prostitutes still want the illegal option. In your words, are you blind or ignorant?

4. Let's look at the causes for high rates of AIDS infection in Africa, shall we?


"

Cultural factors

A large factor preventing people from getting tested and treated for HIV/AIDS is the cultural stigma associated with it. In addition to stigma, there are several other factors medical professionals site as being detrimental to HIV treatment such as male promiscuity and polygamy in some places. One unproven cultural factor consistently mentioned is that the practice of female genital mutilation has led to an increased occurrence of AIDS in Africa. The hypothesis is that intercourse with a circumcised female is conducive to an exchange of blood.

Political factors

As stated before, many major African political leaders have denied the link between HIV and AIDS, favoring alternate theories. The general global scientific community considers the evidence that HIV causes AIDS to be conclusive, thus completely rejecting any denial of such as pseudoscience. Still, despite its lack of scientific acceptance, the methodical denial of AIDS has had a significant political impact – especially under the former South African presidency of Thabo Mbeki.

Religious factors

In Kenya, safe-sex commercials are banned. In addition, in 2009, the Pope Benedict, on a trip through Africa, banned the use of condoms in general. In 2013 the catholic church renewed banning of condoms in catholic schools. Muslim leaders have taken a similar stance in 2008. These are just a few examples demonstrating the significant pressure – and in some cases, condemnation – from both Christian and Muslim religious leaders in regard to AIDS and preventative-care education. Unfortunately, these stances have significantly impeded progress of a variety of safe-sex campaigns.

Medical Suspicion

Suspicions about modern medicine are common throughout the world, and especially in sub-Saharan Africa. Such distrust appears to have an essential impact on utilizing medical services. This distrust is occasionally associated with theories of a “Western Plot” of mass sterilization or reduction in population; thought to be an aftermath of multiple high profile occurrences including Western medical practitioners." (2)

There are more reasons mentioned in the link. Spoiler alert! Prostitution being illegal is not one of the reasons for the high rate of AIDS transmissions.

You simply saying it's a weak argument is not good enough. HPV and other STDs can affet a person regardless if the people are wearing condoms.

I don't refute points if they don't have citations backing them up. But, since you asked so nicely, I will.

"Rape and prostitution have been compared and contrasted by many in order to make various points about these and other issues. This article primarily attempts to refute theories which ascribe a causal relationship between rape and prostitution." (3)

I ask you read the article and see for yourself.

Arguments without citations are weak arguments.

Rebuttals V2:

1. Reasoning alone does not trump evidence. Evidence trumps any "reasoning" you may present.

2. Trends and behavior are shown through studies where prostitution was legalized before. It shows trends among how prostitutes react when given manditory health checks. It shows many trends regarding legalied prostitution. I have evidence. You have your "reasoning" which is falliable. Again, your word is not God.


It does stand in place when you don't have any evidence backing up your claims. You, my good sir, is the person being overconfident.

Rebuttals V3:

Refer to earlier arguments

Again, reasoning does not trump evidence.


Rebuttals V4:

This guy is an idiot. I take pity in knowing the world has someone like him who actually wants to modify modern society in a way that will harm society because his "reasoning" is absolute.

Conclusion Rebuttals:

Wha-....Serio-...

*sighs*

Judges, we all know where this debate is going. He can't provide citations like I have. A lot of my arguments have been dropped. His case is not based on evidence. It is based on opinion.

I feel bad knowing there is someone like this in the world.











1. http://www.avert.org...;
2. http://www.medwiser.org...;
3. http://psycnet.apa.org...;
Debate Round No. 3
The-Ultimate-debater

Pro

This is kinda sad. My opponent does not understand the importance of citations... Huh... How is this guy a debater, again?

Citations maybe important, but only for those where it is really required and there are reasons for the same. I have won all my past 4 debates. Do you know more than the Judges that you claim that I am not a debater? In that case, you will be penalized for defamation, disrespect and insult of Judges.

Rebuttal V1:

1. My first source claims there is not a cure for aids. (1)

However, I also mentioned that we are very close to find a cure for AIDS.

2. Since my opponent has pointed out a grammatical error I made while awed with the sheer stupidity of his case, allow me to reciprocate.

Be my guest and go ahead to prove that I made errors. However, I do not see where you have claimed that I have made a spelling or grammatical mistake. Pls upload a screenshot of my spelling or grammatical mistake taken in MS Word with a red or green wavy line.

"By the way, whether they like it or not but in a government brothel they have to go through medical tests."

Your word does not peel back my source. You have not refuted my claim that, even when given legal alternatives, illegal prostitution rises when legal prostitution is in affect.

If you think that it does not refute the claim or your source remains unchallenged, then I would say that you have not understood my words. I clearly mentioned that illegal prostitution means private brothels and customers won’t choose private brothels to satisfy their lusts for three reasons.

  1. 1. First, there is a risk of getting caught by the cops and they may land up in jail.
  2. 2. Second, it is costly than government brothels as private brothels may have to bribe the cops and authorities for their business.
  3. 3. Third, availing services in private brothels have more chances of getting HIV/AIDS.

So, when legal government brothels are available for sexual services, why would any guy go to avail services of an illegal prostitute?

Honourable Judges, pls note that Con has committed another error in English as it is “is in effect” and not “is in affect”.

3.Again, even when given legal alternatives, prostitutes still want the illegal option. In your words, are you blind or ignorant?

Why would prostitute choose the illegal option in the first place? You have not given me the reason(s) for the same and you are here to debate with me? Being knowledgeable does not mean that you consider baseless, stupid and irrational statements. Now, you will baselessly copy that too in frustration. J

4. Let's look at the causes for high rates of AIDS infection in Africa, shall we?

I have found this excerpt from the net -à http://www.medwiser.org...
"

Cultural factors

A large factor preventing people from getting tested and treated for HIV/AIDS is the cultural stigma associated with it. In addition to stigma, there are several other factors medical professionals site as being detrimental to HIV treatment such as male promiscuity and polygamy in some places. One unproven cultural factor consistently mentioned is that the practice of female genital mutilation has led to an increased occurrence of AIDS in Africa. The hypothesis is that intercourse with a circumcised female is conducive to an exchange of blood.

Honourable Judges, firstly Con has just recklessly copied and pasted it from the site above. He/She has not taken care that it was wrongly mentioned in the site without an apostrophe ‘s’ as it should be ‘professional’s site’ and not ‘professionals site’.

  1. 1. Every country has its culture.
  2. 2. Therefore, you agree that it is the culture and mindset of the people by which it gives rise to AIDS in a faster rate than prostitution else countries like Australia, Turkey etc would be topping the list. If prostitution is a threat for increased rate of AIDS cases, then Turkey should be atleast somewhere nearer to these top 10 countries but Turkey ranks way below in 161.
  3. 3. Why do we not take this as an example and reverse the effect by starting a new culture of having safe sex?

Political factors

As stated before, many major African political leaders have denied the link between HIV and AIDS, favoring alternate theories. The general global scientific community considers the evidence that HIV causes AIDS to be conclusive, thus completely rejecting any denial of such as pseudoscience. Still, despite its lack of scientific acceptance, the methodical denial of AIDS has had a significant political impact – especially under the former South African presidency of Thabo Mbeki.

  1. 1. If public follows the political leaders blindly, then why do we not in India ask the same political leaders to come infront of the media and preach about safe sex which is opposite to what leaders in Africa are preaching?
  2. 2. It must be affecting but not to that extent. The article which you copied and pasted does not tell us that to what extent does the political influence affects unsafe sex and spread of HIV/AIDS.

Religious factors

In Kenya, safe-sex commercials are banned.

It maybe banned but not forever. Also, it may have been banned but for this reason that it showed obscenity. If they had shown the same safe sex advertisement in a decent way then they would have allowed it.

Also, Kenya has banned leaky condom brand also and below is the site mentioning that. Why would it ban leaky condom if it was against safe sex in general?

http://www.panapress.com...

In addition, in 2009, the Pope Benedict, on a trip through Africa, banned the use of condoms in general.

Even before 2009, i.e. 2008 Swaziland and other African nations topped the list of rates of HIV/AIDS cases. Here is the pdf site to prove it so NOW DO NOT SAY THAT I DID NOT PROVIDE ANY CITATIONS. Honourable Judges also, pls note that I have provided a citation with this website. Pls goto the 5th page of this pdf website which proves my point.

http://depts.washington.edu...

In 2013 the catholic church renewed banning of condoms in catholic schools.

Again, even before 2013 i.e. in 2008 African nations, especially Swaziland topped the list of highest rates of HIV/AIDS found in the nation.

Muslim leaders have taken a similar stance in 2008. These are just a few examples demonstrating the significant pressure – and in some cases, condemnation – from both Christian and Muslim religious leaders in regard to AIDS and preventative-care education. Unfortunately, these stances have significantly impeded progress of a variety of safe-sex campaigns.

Muslims and Christians are not just in Africa but all around the world. Saudi Arabia is a hardcore Musslim nation but it ranks way below in percentage of HIV cases.

Medical Suspicion

Suspicions about modern medicine are common throughout the world, and especially in sub-Saharan Africa. Such distrust appears to have an essential impact on utilizing medical services. This distrust is occasionally associated with theories of a “Western Plot” of mass sterilization or reduction in population; thought to be an aftermath of multiple high profile occurrences including Western medical practitioners." (2)

Did not understand this point, I would request the site authorities to explain it to me more elaborately.

There are more reasons mentioned in the link. Spoiler alert! Prostitution being illegal is not one of the reasons for the high rate of AIDS transmissions.

You are just claiming that illegal prostitution is not the reason for high rate of AIDS cases without providing any reason or practical example as proof. However, I gave you statistical data through websites as evidence and therefore I claim that prostitution being illegal is the reason for high rate of HIV/AIDS cases.

You simply saying it's a weak argument is not good enough. HPV and other STDs can affet a person regardless if the people are wearing condoms.

I don't refute points if they don't have citations backing them up. But, since you asked so nicely, I will.

"Rape and prostitution have been compared and contrasted by many in order to make various points about these and other issues. This article primarily attempts to refute theories which ascribe a causal relationship between rape and prostitution." (3)

I ask you read the article and see for yourself.

Arguments without citations are weak arguments.

Rebuttals V2:

1. Reasoning alone does not trump evidence. Evidence trumps any "reasoning" you may present.


2. Trends and behavior are shown through studies where prostitution was legalized before. It shows trends among how prostitutes react when given manditory health checks. It shows many trends regarding legalied prostitution. I have evidence. You have your "reasoning" which is falliable. Again, your word is not God.


It does stand in place when you don't have any evidence backing up your claims. You, my good sir, is the person being overconfident.

Rebuttals V3:

Refer to earlier arguments

Again, reasoning does not trump evidence.


Rebuttals V4:

This guy is an idiot. I take pity in knowing the world has someone like him who actually wants to modify modern society in a way that will harm society because his "reasoning" is absolute.

Conclusion Rebuttals:

Wha-....Serio-...


*sighs*

Judges, we all know where this debate is going. He can't provide citations like I have. A lot of my arguments have been dropped. His case is not based on evidence. It is based on opinion.


I feel bad knowing there is someone like this in the world.



Honourable Judges and my most worthy opponent, I could have debated more till the end but unfortunately there is a prior appointment fixed and I have to go. However, I will reply and debate the remaining part in Round 5 or in the comments and you can go through my comments section for the reply.

Cooldudebro

Con

I'm extending my arguments
Debate Round No. 4
The-Ultimate-debater

Pro

Honourable Judges and my most worthy opponent, pls goto http://debateorg-round4.blogspot.in... the remaining part of Round 4 of the debate which I couldn't complete due to a sudden prior appointment.

I'm extending my arguments

WHAT??? Is that ALL you had to say?

Honourable Judges, you saw that this person just typed a phrase and went away.

1.) Actually, his/her time for posting the argument was ending so he/she just typed a phrase and went away.

2.) This is as good as forfeiting as my arguments and debated points stand unchallenged.

3.) He/She has perhaps ran out of words after looking at my huge debated points and arguments.

4.) It can also be possible that he/she got scared of huge paragraphs and hence decided to quit.

5.) Even though I was running out of time and had a sudden appointment and emergency, still I posted my argument in an exterior site in a blog when I came back but he/she could not even do that and will make a trumped up excuse that he/she was busy etc.

However, this is my last round. I am sure that you will decide very judiciously that who has won the debate and vote accordingly. I am having my good faith on you that you will do it without any prejudice and that is why I chose you. Pls vote for me as I have given all that which a normal healthy debate requires and especially if I did not type just a phrase in response to a huge reasoned paragraph with evidences without any reasoning or proof. Thank you.
Cooldudebro

Con

I'm extending my arguments because:


1. I didn't have time to reply.

2. Your cases don't have any evidence backing you up.

My opponent has no evidence backing him. This debate was won before it was started.


He has dropped several arguments. He uses his "reasoning" to try to debunk sources. If any judges vote for him, it will show the lack of debate experience of said judge. Debaters need evidence. He does not provide any evidence. I have won this debate a long time ago.

Vote Con since I'm the only person with reasonable arguments with sources backing him up.

Anime OP:
https://www.youtube.com...;
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
RFD (Pt 1)

What should have been a very straightforward debate about prostitution turned into a sources vs. analytics debate with some very disrespectful behavior. Both sides couldn't see the forest for the trees, as each of you focused more on individual arguments than on the debate as a whole. And both sides appear more interested in dismissing the other side's points than they do in responding to the substance of each other's arguments. Con presents a number of sources, pretty much copy-pasting them as his entire argument, and relies on them throughout the debate, pointing back to them constantly and ignoring Pro's analytics almost entirely. Pro spends little time showing that the analytics he presents are actually borne out in the real world, instead focusing on the logic that results in certain outcomes.

So this was infuriating to read. It wasn't a debate. It was two ships passing in the night.

And the arguments weren't that great to start for either side. Pro's arguments come off as scattershot, walking back and forth between utilitarian offense, some strange moral offense, and pre-rebuttal to arguments he apparently expected to see. Con spends so much time on diseases that it just becomes repetitive " we get that HIV and HPV are bad, you really don't have to go to this level of detail. The remainder of his argument is almost entirely quotes, and there's little application to Pro's actual case or the Indian situation in general.

The result is that neither side was really drawing me in.
Posted by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
(Pt 2)

But what makes my decision is applicability of the given arguments. Pro's case may be threadbare, but much of it is dropped, and he does take the time to analyze Con's case insofar as pointing out why analytics might make things swing a different way in India, particularly with his policy. I buy a lot of Con's analysis about how prostitutes aren't really into the health checks and may be dissuaded from adhering to the "always wear condoms" policy, but that really doesn't do enough to tell me why Pro's case is so damaging. Lack of condom use is prevalent now, so why should I care that there's still going to be some lack of usage following implementation of Pro's policy? The health checks are certainly not going to be perfect and a lot of people might fall through the cracks, but there would still be more people getting them than in status quo. Both sides just sort of assume that the number of johns will increase (though I'm not given much of a reason why that's true), but I have no idea by how much, so as long as the situation is improving for prostitutes and their clients marginally, I'm buying a benefit. It doesn't help Pro at all that the moral discussion from Pro's opening round goes straight dropped, leaving me to believe that it's an affront to their individual freedoms not to allow prostitution.

All of the other harms are linked to other systems. I can buy that every single private brothel and prostitute will be all of the terrible things Con tells me they'll be (children, illegal, and sex-trafficked), but that doesn't affect Pro's case because his is entirely based on a government system. I'm given no reason to believe that an illegal system will grow out of government-controlled brothels, and no reason to believe that sex-trafficking and child prostitution will be either neglected or overlooked in the Indian system.
Posted by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
(Pt. 3)

The rest of the debate goes so far off track that it never ends up mattering. There's a lot of talk about other countries and what might come for treatments for HIV, but all of that is irrelevant or mitigation. It's not enough to affect the outcome. Given that Pro's the only one with any meaningful offense, I pick him up.

That's not to say that I like his case. At all. Con could have won this with a Kritik on Pro's Contention 9, which stated that men without access to prostitutes could essentially become gay from lack of intercourse. Pretty bad point. Pro also missed the opportunity to argue that a decriminalized system allows many of the abused women Con talks about to get out of prostitution, which solves for many of the problems he cites. They're in that situation mainly because they're treated as criminals who cannot approach the police for abuse. That's a big problem, and even if the only point is "reduce abuse to women," that would have been huge.

Nonetheless, he does enough to win my vote.
Posted by The-Ultimate-debater 11 months ago
The-Ultimate-debater
Honourable Judges and my most worthy opponent, pls goto http://debateorg-round4.blogspot.in... for the remaining part of Round 4 of the debate which I couldn't complete due to a sudden prior appointment.
Posted by dsjpk5 11 months ago
dsjpk5
After reading over the instigator' s previous debates, I have come to the conclusion that I'm not the right person to judge this debate. I respectfully decline.
Posted by Cooldudebro 11 months ago
Cooldudebro
I need to sleep. Citations needed.
Posted by dsjpk5 11 months ago
dsjpk5
Who else has accepted the judge nomination?
Posted by Cooldudebro 11 months ago
Cooldudebro
Oh! You're nominating a judge. I ask for one with neutral stance on this topic.
Posted by Cooldudebro 11 months ago
Cooldudebro
I will post my arguments ASAP. For now, good luck.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
The-Ultimate-debaterCooldudebroTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Given in comments. Conduct to Pro for much of Con's insults, particularly calling him an idiot. Extending the arguments in the last two rounds came off as d*ckish as well. Pro did engage in some poor conduct himself (also didn't help that he posted much of his R4 in the comments, and over the character limit), but he was still better.
Vote Placed by lannan13 11 months ago
lannan13
The-Ultimate-debaterCooldudebroTied
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Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: This is a place holder vote to remind me to vote on this debate tomorrow.