The Instigator
N0yer
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
DarrenL1
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Graffiti is an artform

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
DarrenL1
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2013 Category: Arts
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 917 times Debate No: 42777
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

N0yer

Pro

Graffiti is an urban sub-culture and one of the 4 elements of hip-hop. It is a unique artistic expression, which does require skill and experience. Graffiti is not just about vandalism or senseless defacement, its about originality, fame, and all about your artwork.
DarrenL1

Con

Being located near railroad tracks frequently I wait at the train tracks. When these train cars pass I notice all of the 'art' that was performed on them. I find graffiti to be particularly disrespectful to the achievements of successful companies and small business owners. Although, I do believe this would be a much greater achievement if put on paper or the 'artist' has permission from the owner to create his/her works on the owner's structure. Unfortunately, this does not meet the requirements for a work to be considered graffiti. To be considered graffiti the work must meet the following requirements.

-Scribbled, scratched or painted on a public surface or wall.
-If it has been done illicitly without owner permission.

So lets, begin. Graffiti is disrespectful towards homeowners, companies and small business owners. As my first example I will use boxcars. A new boxcar averages a cost of around $100,000. If you are not familiar with American currency this is in fact, a lot of money. All it takes to ruin the appearance of this new boxcar is a $2.00 can of spray paint. Vandalism is NOT culture.

Although Graffiti is much more popular in urban areas, even in my current location, a rural area, graffiti is present. Even with a mere 500 people graffiti has made it's mark. I can quote various statements graffiti that has been made that meet the requirements. I do not comprehend how white spray paint strung along in a stairwell reading "m*th*rf*ck*rs . Is cultural.

Graffiti is a nuisance. An owner may spend countless hours repainting their establishment due to the excessive scribbling. To not be noticeable you must paint graffiti over multiple times. Only to be a target for another crime. Quite possibly from the same individual.

The benefits of graffiti are slim to none. It is a plague to property owners. All it takes to ruin thousands of dollars worth of property is two dollars. A ratio of 1:50,000 can render the appearance of a structure to, in simplest terms, complete rubbish.
Debate Round No. 1
N0yer

Pro

I am a graffiti artist/writer myself and i understand your views although i do not agree with them. I am going to argue from a graffiti artists point of view. I came from a fair neighborhood and lived an urban city lifestyle. Yes, graffiti can cause property damage, and cost money to remove graffiti, and can be a nuisance. However, graffiti is still an ART-FORM that represents itself THROUGH vandalism and defacement. It is a freedom of expression. It may be nice to have graffiti kept in a sketch book, or asking the owner permission first to paint on his/her's structure, but that seems too domesticated, Graffiti is meant to be illegal, its meant to run wild and free through the streets. Graffiti is a subculture of Hip-Hop, so is the DJ, MC, and the breakdancers.

Drawing penises, or making inappropriate or hate comments on a wall is not what real graffiti artists/writers do. That is what mindless people do when their bored and they are one of the main reasons why they make us look bad to the rest of society. I write NOYER everywhere i get a chance because it gets me fame through the public even though it is hated. However, that is not all i do. I also have an artist state of mind when i do graffiti art. I could paint a picture that represents and gives off a message to the public such as all men are created equal, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, or something as simple as to paint something that will make you smile. Graffiti can send an unspoken message towards society and the public. Graffiti has always been somewhat political, but it has come a long way from simply tagging one's name to parodying world leaders to make a statement.

You make a great point, there are not really that much benefits for graffiti. But the point is for the artist. He/She can put there art anywhere they want and know that someone somehere will see it, whether they love it or hate it, they are out there making a name for themselves.
DarrenL1

Con

To start I will argue my opponents points and give a closing argument.

" Graffiti is an ART-FORM that represents itself THROUGH vandalism and defacement."

The instability of your argument declares itself in your own words. You specifically said that Graffiti represents itself through vandalism and defacement. You are implying that in face vandalism and defacement are components of Graffiti. Also art's definition is: The creation of beautiful things. Most graffiti is not beautiful. Graffiti is not to be deemed beautiful to the randomness and sloppiness collected together to deface a structure.

"It is a freedom of expression."

This is not a FREEDOM. This is against the law, this is destruction of property and should not be considered a viable freedom.

"Graffiti is meant to be illegal."

Most all art-forms are not considered illegal. Graffiti belongs in it's own subcategory of vandalism and immature expression.

"Drawing penises, or making inappropriate or hate comments on a wall is not what real graffiti artists/writers do. That is what mindless people do when their bored and they are one of the main reasons why they make us look bad to the rest of society."

This is not the reason. You look bad to the rest of society because no matter how vivid the colors or how "meaningful" this work of vandalism is, it is vandalism. I can find no other words to express my opinion. No matter the combination of shapes and colors it is evident that Graffiti is still ruining someone Else's property. Hate comments are without doubt Graffiti. So you must be suggesting them as an art form.

" also have an artist state of mind when I do graffiti art. I could paint a picture that represents and gives off a message to the public such as all men are created equal, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, or something as simple as to paint something that will make you smile."

I argue that you could just as easily express all of these things without taking part in this illegal for of vandalism. A sketchbook or the owner's permission can grant you all of the same things. Some of these may even grant profit to you in the future if you have the skill. But the most Graffiti can do is get you arrested.

"Graffiti has always been somewhat political."

There is absolutely no logical way you can refer to graffiti as political. Politics has never made reference to graffiti in any shape or form. There has never been a government power that has taken advice from paint or scratches on a wall. This statement is completely untrue.

"He/She can put there art anywhere they want and know that someone somewhere will see it, whether they love it or hate it, they are out there making a name for themselves."

Their*

Graffiti has made its mark on society as a poor expression of vandalism through paint and scribbles. It can cost massive amount of money to replace or repair the damage done by this destruction of property. I find graffiti not to be an art form. But rather a plague to society. It only takes the purchase of a can of spray paint to ruin and deface a structure that has much more valuable than three or four hours or vandalism emerging from the nozzle of a can of paint. The time it took to purchase and maintain the buildings or structures took much longer and requires much more money and effort.

Thank you for the debate.
Debate Round No. 2
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by DarrenL1 3 years ago
DarrenL1
@MosDEF I was unaware that experiencing struggle meant to go out and buy a can of spray pain and gawk around with it ruining other people's property. Attacking graffiti as a whole was the entire argument as a matter of fact. I am not aware as to how this differs from referring to it as an art form.
Posted by MosDEF 3 years ago
MosDEF
DarremL1 is prolly some fuckin kid who never experienced stuggle, i agree wit noyer cuz i see his state of mind and i can relate. Im a DJ for the MosDEF, and i am forever part of the hiphop culture. Darrem was attacking graffiti as a whole but the argument was if graffiti was an artform, Just some punk who doesnt understand
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
N0yerDarrenL1Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: "Drawing penises, or making inappropriate or hate comments on a wall is not what real graffiti artists/writers do." Nice use of the No True Scotsman, yet that is the very definition; calling better things something else may be your best option. "I write NOYER everywhere i get a chance because it gets me fame through the public even though it is hated." Is a dog marking their territory also art? Seriously, that is about the worst example in trying to call it art, doubly so since it lines up with the first one I quoted... Anyway con did a very good job in countering points, and with beautiful or positive examples of graffiti given, con's point of "Most all art-forms are not considered illegal. Graffiti belongs in it's own subcategory of vandalism and immature expression," stands. ... Conduct was fine, no Jar Jar speak, no sources (pictures would have been very good in this debate).
Vote Placed by Cooldudebro 3 years ago
Cooldudebro
N0yerDarrenL1Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Overall con wins this one.