The Instigator
TheNextDaVinci
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
SactownBoom
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Greatest Grunge Band of the 90s

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/2/2016 Category: Music
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,005 times Debate No: 87525
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (34)
Votes (0)

 

TheNextDaVinci

Pro

Nirvana was by far the Greatest and most Successful Grunge band of the 90s.
SactownBoom

Con

In the following arguments, I will posit that Pearl Jam, not Nirvana, is the greatest and most successful grunge band of the 90's.

Since you did not elaborate on your claim in your first argument, I shall refrain from presenting my case until after you present you make the argument for your cause.

Thank you and lets have a cool music debate.
Debate Round No. 1
TheNextDaVinci

Pro

TheNextDaVinci forfeited this round.
SactownBoom

Con

It’s hard to argue with people who claim that Nirvana was the greatest and most successful band of the grunge era. The history of the 90’s – as written by MTV and VH1’s “Behind the Music” commercial sell jobs would certainly lead one to think so. For the last two decades the mainstream music press has eagerly grabbed the easy dollar by explaining to us how Nirvana is almost solely responsible for every grunge album sold and how their demise effectively ended an entire musical revolution. But this is revisionist history.

Sit down children, and listen to a tale from someone who actually witnessed the birth, life and death of a musical genre.

You see, I was there. I was a music fan who lived through the 90’s. I was a fan of Nirvana, for sure. They were a neat little band who wrote insanely catchy earworms, who although you had no idea what was being sang, you just knew somehow it had to be angsty and against, you know, society, or whatever. They were, according to many of the punk magazines I subscribed to at the time... a pop-punk band. Not even grunge.

Nirvana didn’t invent grunge. Far from it. Grunge evolved out of a merger between the late 80’s west coast punk scene and the underground metal bands of the times. The Melvins were a major part of that scene, playing up and down the entire west coast. The Melvins(1) were a punk band, regardless of how MTV would like to reclassify them. Green River/Mudhoney also populated the scene, and Soundgarden(2) (one of the original Sub Pop bands) even had a major label release before the 90’s had even begun, and were at the time thought of as “the next big thing” – at time when Nirvana were still struggling and playing smaller venues.
Nirvana remains the band that everyone remembers from that time though, because of “Smells Like Teen Spirit”. A song MTV latched onto and spun in vomit-inducing levels on heavy rotation. (So much so that on the tour supporting their follow-up album “In Utero” even Kurt Cobain was loathe to play it) Nevermind indeed sold a bunch of records. In Utero was not so much a smash hit though. In those pre-Cobain blowing his brains out days, Pearl Jam’s 2nd album “Vs” was easily outselling and outperforming In Utero. Nirvana’s 15-minutes of fame was entering it’s 14:30 mark, and then Kurt pulls the trigger. Blammy…

So that’s supposed to make Nirvana greater and more successful?
I give you Pearl Jam. A band formed out of the remnants of Mother Love Bone (a definite grunge rock precursor band) and with members who participated in the Temple of the Dog project (unquestionably a grunge rock classic), along with Eddie Vedder, a singer whose style has now been imitated and aped by countless artists, from arena rock bands of today to country and western artists. Who sounds like Kurt Cobain? Pretty much nobody. Pearl Jam were undeniably a more influential band than Nirvana. Oh sure, there were a couple of bands that tried to capitalize on the sound (example: Bush) but they weren’t really influenced by Nirvana so much as they just wanted to sound like Nirvana so they would be thought of as cool. (they weren’t)
Pearl Jam eclipses Nirvana in almost every way in the quality and quantity categories. Take a look at the lyrics, for one thing.

Nirvana- All Apologies
What else should I be?
All apologies
What else should I say?
Everyone is gay
What else should I write?

I don't have the right
What else should I be?
All apologies


Ooooh, so deep. Sounds like they were written by an 8th grader.

Compared to Pearl Jam

I swear I recognize your breath
Memories like fingerprints are slowly raising
Me, you wouldn't recall, for I'm not my former
It's hard when, you're stuck upon the shelf

Sorry, the Pearl Jam lyrics just took more thought. More care. Lyrics that are meant to last a lot longer.

In my opinion there isn’t any doubt. The Nirvana that is presented today, is not the Nirvana of the 90’s. They are a media-driven money making concoction. (Hey, Kourtney Love has to make a living somehow - she certainly isn't going to off the music she writes) They weren't that highly regarded in the day. For as playable as Nevermind was, In Utero was utterly unlistenable. They were fading.. - and Cobain knew it? Maybe. Maybe that's why he did the ultimate rock star thing, the thing he always professed to be against, but instead what he always was... someone who wanted and craved fame. Hardly the counter-culture figure most make him out to be today. But of course, that's just my speculation.

Nirvana was a bright star, that's a definite fact. But they were a star that burned bright, then faded away quickly. If not for Kurt's suicide and the subsequent martyrdom that MTV bestowed upon his corpse, Pearl Jam were far and away the more popular grunge band of the day. Their songs dominated the airwaves, through multiple albums, a band built to survive for the ages. Even though they abandoned the "mainstream" after a dispute with Ticketmaster, they continue to roll on, even to this day. That is success. Success Nirvana can't match.

And if Kurt doesn't kill himself? Do you think Nirvana is a band that like Pearl Jam, is still around touring and making music in 2016? I don't see any way that would have been possible. Nirvana was a band meant to implode. They weren't built to last. From Kurt's neuroses, to Dave Grohl's underlying artistic expression waiting to come out, Nirvana would not be a viable band today. It would be Kurt Cobain solo and something similar to Foo Fighters. Pearl Jam, however, would obviously be what they are - Pearl Jam.

That makes Pearl Jam the more successful band. That makes Pearl Jam the greatest grunge band of the 90's.


1 https://nirvana-legacy.com...

2 http://www.allmusic.com...
Debate Round No. 2
TheNextDaVinci

Pro

TheNextDaVinci forfeited this round.
SactownBoom

Con

This is a picture of Eddie Vedder's house




This is what Kurt Cobain sees everyday



Because he's DEAD.




Eddie Vedder recently hung out with President Obama in Hawaii.


Kurt Cobain doesn't hang out with anybody, because he's DEAD.




Eddie Vedder is worth $80 million http://www.bornrich.com...;

Kurt Cobain was cremated and his ashes were supposedly spread over a creek in Washington. He's worth $0 because he's DEAD.



Eddie Vedder and his Pearl Jam bandmates still get to enjoy all the success they've had over the years.


Courtney Love probably motivated Kurt to blow his brains out, now she gets to enjoy all the money Kurt would have made, and she is just a horrible human being. Instead of enjoying success, Kurt is taking a dirt nap.


Enjoying your big house, hanging out with the POTUS, being worth millions of dollars, that is what success is.

Being worm food is not what I call being "successful"
Debate Round No. 3
TheNextDaVinci

Pro

TheNextDaVinci forfeited this round.
SactownBoom

Con

Cake and boobies

a la mode.

;
Debate Round No. 4
34 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by venim59 1 year ago
venim59
probably biggest mainstream band but Alice in chains has got to be my favorite, ether them or silver chair. both of these bands went into putting so much emotion into there songs and left a lasting impression on the music industry.
Posted by EccentricSenator314 1 year ago
EccentricSenator314
I'll give you love birds credit, you really tried hard to earn your little points with those last 2 remarks. How can I be "wearing diapers" when I incessantly sh*t on you losers!!??? That makes NO f*cking sense (Try again)!!!!! There is NO such thing as an "expert" on Grunge; people have opinions and you either live with it or cry about it, and you cry about my opinions. I talk sh*t on you because while you're gaping and crying, you sometimes talk sh*t on me (I goad you yet again, to try again. Despite your best effort, you fall flat, pathetic attempt) In regards to Sacfag, you called me crazy, insane, hilarious, special, angry, miserable, crazy (Again), a know-it-all (Like that's an insult, lol), and requested me to go f*ck myself; (While that is name-calling and not sophisticated/substantive arguments, one could postulate that you are arguing with me. If you are not arguing, then it seems as though your purpose here is to 69 yourself and smell your farts along with Wimpy's. Meh, with that 1, you're right AND wrong, 'suppose you earned 2 points for the effort, and for finally tellin' the damn truth...)
Posted by diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid 1 year ago
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid
Eccentric baby, Wearing diapers in the 90s doesn't make you "part of the 90s" nor does your mommy smelling like teen spirit make you an expert on grunge.
Posted by SactownBoom 1 year ago
SactownBoom
I hate to break this to you Eccentric, but you and I are not debating. I haven't made a single "argument" to you.

You are special.

Please - continue. Your manifestos are works of art.
Posted by EccentricSenator314 1 year ago
EccentricSenator314
Whoah there Major, you already apologized to me for the harassment regarding my opinion in music in the 1st comment!!! A sh*tty argument is the equivalent of an apology. Nobody's cheering for you, no points, no audience, no reactions; why do you insist upon yourself??? Is it because you're an immature narcissist who's desperate to have the last word in every-single-thing as some sort of "win"!!??? Pathetic, just like Pearl Jam you feel the need to "just keep swimming", even though there's no f*cking point in it anymore!!!!! Like I said earlier, none of your sh*t is working on me, you need to learn how to fold when an argument isn't getting you anywhere (Like pissin' in the wind, you also need to learn how to interact with others and how to have a decent discussion. Take off your mask[s] off, I bet you're no older than 15.....). Drop this "go-for-broke; a-ha, you took the bait" crap already, it isn't working and it literally speaks volumes about your true identity. Once the apology has been accepted there are no "take-backs" (God, the epitome of immaturity.....), the discussion is over and you've run out of steam a long time agi. Calling me "crazy" as your only remark soundly reinforces the entirety of this comment. Seeing as I put the word "Eccentric" in my name, people should really have a good idea of what they're up against, you screaming about how "crazy" I am reinforces my point that your points are just desperate pleas for attention (WHAT, did I "mislead" you, some-f*cking-how!!!??? Well sh*t, so-rry, have your Mommy kiss the burn spot for me!!!!!)
Posted by SactownBoom 1 year ago
SactownBoom
You're flying flipping crazy Eccentric, and I haven't apologized to you.

Please, keep the comments coming. Your insanity is hilarious.
Posted by EccentricSenator314 1 year ago
EccentricSenator314
@Sacbag: So you submit to defeat, you agree that you are wrong for griefing my tastes in music earlier!!??? It seems like it, it seems as though you've ran out of substantive arguments and are forced to rely on hurling childish insults indiscriminately. Especially with your last comment (The equivalent of crying "Uncle" lmao), you illustrate that you STILL somehow think that you're scorin' points or anybody *Besides your 2 friends* gives a flying f*ck about your arguments or opinions. I accept your apology, but it is a poor haphazard shoddy apology (It's disguised that way for a reason; you're essentially apologizing, but you do so in a brash/arrogant manner, to protect your pride/ego/"points"; you want me to stop commenting so that you can claim you "won". While I accept the apology, it's not ending like this. Learn how to have a decent discussion with other people, and understand that music is subjective, there is no "right" or "wrong" answers with this topic. It could've been a decent discussion, instead it turned to be a flame war and you desperately trying to score points with each exchange. Learn when to fold, learn manners, and learn to broaden your horizons.....)
Posted by SactownBoom 1 year ago
SactownBoom
I'm sorry your father touched you inappropriately when you were little, BatshitcrazySenator.
Posted by SactownBoom 1 year ago
SactownBoom
You seem angry. Miserable even.
Posted by EccentricSenator314 1 year ago
EccentricSenator314
*One more thing, and character restraints precluded me from adding me in this in my previous comment: If Eddie Vedder and Co. are so desperate for money and can't make any good music anymore, why don't they write a book or a biopic!!??? 2000's Binaural was their last good album; they haven't released a good album in 16 years; at least Nirvana ended while the music was still good, at least they didn't put music out because they felt obligated to "just keep swimming"!!!!!*
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