The Instigator
Tmdog3758
Pro (for)
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The Contender
sabarashy
Con (against)
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Greeks are better than romans

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/11/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,507 times Debate No: 63097
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
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Tmdog3758

Pro

National forensics league rules for ld apply. Will give link if needed. Please keep it clean and have fun!
sabarashy

Con

No no no no no the romans were much more advanced and were more demcratic than the greeks they also built much better archtechure and had better art
Debate Round No. 1
Tmdog3758

Pro

First a few links to the rules.
http://www.nflonline.org...
http://www.neisd.net.... ( page 9)

Let's begin.
"Great things about both empires, but for an opening statement, I would say that Rome admired all things Greek. They took their Gods, and renamed them. A Roman General, when speaking about why they had victories over other cultures, his answer to each was "but we practiced more", naming each cultures strong points they had to overcome, e.g. when he came to certain uncivilized cultures, and Great Britain he said they were more ferocious, but we practiced more.
When he came to the Greeks he said they were smarter than us, but we practiced more. Sorry, you'll have to research the Roman General who said this, I don't remember his name, but it is a famous quote.
The Roman culture, considered the Greek culture the most advanced in the world,,,,,,,,,,excepting their own.
Democracy, though often given credit to "the cradle of civilization" Rome, was borrowed from Greece. "
https://answers.yahoo.com...

Some people like you and me say:
"The Greeks invented science and philosophy, so they get my vote. The greatest Roman scientist/philosopher was Lucretius, and there is hardly anything which is not derived from Greek sources in his doctrine. The Romans were engineers, architects, and administrators, not scientists and philosophers. They were practical men. They lacked the generalising genius of the Greek mind. They only surpassed the Greeks in law, administration and other things of only material or practical value."
"The Greeks outlasted the Romans by a thousand years and also lead to the Soviet Union- the greatest country the world has ever known."
http://www.politicsforum.org...

"I think this one boils down to personal taste more than rationality. The Greeks were often just as ruthless and bloodthirsty as the Romans, but were less unified and more anarchic and so achieved less in the way of lasting political hegemony.
Looking simply at the arts, the Greeks put the Romans w-a-a-a-y in the shade. Every halfway decent Roman artist or poet stole at least half their technique from the Greeks. At least."
"And yes, Romans were not great engineers. The Etruscans and later the Greeks working for them were. More or less"

The Ancient Greeks and Romans both began their histories as city-states. While the irregular coastline and the mountainous terrain of the Greek peninsula isolated the various Greek city-states from one another, the city of Rome was located in the geographical middle of a generally north-south plain bordered on the east with mountains and on the west by the sea. Therefore, Rome was exposed to the migrations and invasions of people from the Po River in the north and Sicily in the south."
The two primary ethnic and cultural influences upon the Romans were determined to a degree by this geography. That is, the first influence was that of the Etruscans in the north, and the second major influence was that of the Greeks in the south. By the time the city-state of Rome had emerged as a distinct entity out of its Etruscan origins and was prepared to expand its own unique influence, Greek civilization had spread throughout the Mediterranean basin. However, the fierce exclusiveness of the Greek city-states from one another, stemming from their geographical isolation, had determined that Greek colonization of the Mediterranean would be an extension of isolated city-states. The Greek polis did not permit the building of a Greek empire, and the strict barriers to the extension of citizenship prevented any one city-state from becoming dominant. As we have seen from Greek history, the Athenians were on the way to creating an empire through their domination of the Delian League, but this trend was reversed in the Pelopponesian Wars.
The Greek city-states had to be united by force, first through the invasion of the Macedonians, and then by the Romans. But the Greeks would, in a sense, have the last laugh. Their culture was more sophisticated, their learning and philosophy more advanced, and Roman culture would be overwhelmed as the Romans absorbed the cultural influences of the Hellenistic east. In the final outcome, as the Roman Empire declined in the west, Roman emperors transferred their capitol from Italy to Asia Minor. Long after the Roman empire was gone, the Byzantine Empire, an amalgam of Roman and Greek culture, centered in the city of Constantinople, would endure. The Greeks had conquered their conquerors.
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu...

Plus read as many if these essays on why Greeks are better than Romans.
http://www.studymode.com...

Here is why America is closer to being Greek than roman.

Why America is more like Athens than Rome
I've been having an interesting email conversation with Elizabeth Bowen, who's been lurking on this site for some time, I suspect, without ever making a comment. I'm going to out her (with permission) because she had some interesting things to say about why people learn Roman history more than Greek, the core of which is:
That prevalence -- at least, in the United States -- probably has a lot to do with the parallels between Rome and America. History teachers here (the ones who still bother to teach the classics) tend to drive home this point that the Romans were the Americans of antiquity. (Modest, I know.) So Rome is something people feel they can relate to, whereas Greece can seem a little more remote.
Here are my reasons why America is closer to Athens than Rome. Feel free to tell me how totally wrong I am! (In fact, I'm sort of looking forward to it.)
America is a very strong democracy. Athens was a very strong full democracy. Rome wasn't. (Yes, they had elections, which did have some effect. But the Senate was essentially an oligarchy, and come the Roman Empire, any democratic pretense was gone.)
Any modern democracy has a lot to learn from how the course of the democracy ran in Athens. It's hard to say the same of Rome. Fun though it might be to study the power politics, the correspondence just isn't there.
Pax Romana was implemented by conquering and subsuming anyone who caused trouble. Pax Americana (such as it is) is implemented through economic dominance and diplomatic alliances. This is much closer to how Athens dominated its world. America+NATO is structurally most similar to Athens+Delian League.
The geographic influence of Rome was vast. So also for America. Score one for the Romans. In fact, this is the only close similarity between the two. But also the one everyone notices.
The Athenians were hyper-enthusiastic about their system of government and their culture. So too Americans! The Athenians usually liked to install democracies in any city they conquered (with a few notable exceptions). American behaviour is virtually the same. The Romans were sort of meh on the whole thing and simply imposed their own rule on the countries they captured and never left. (Yes I realize there are some sensitivities with current issues, but if you think back over the last 100 years, particularly around WW2, it's clear US policy is Athens-like, not Roman.)
Athens was a hugely innovative and artistic culture. So too America. Rome was outstanding at implementing stuff, but innovative is not an adjective most people would apply.
America has the most powerful navy in the world. Athens had the most powerful navy in the world. Romans loathed getting wet.
I therefore claim modern America has more lessons to learn from Athens than Rome.
http://www.garycorby.com...

So please side with me that Greeks are better than Romans. I am now open to any comments, questions, or concerns.
sabarashy

Con

FIrst you say that Athens is closer to America that is FALSE it is a common belief that the Greeks were the first to institute a democracy but in my opinion this mostly false because only the top 5% had the ability to vote would this not be an aristocracy? Where the romans had a republic they also had the exutive judicial and a legaslative branch guess who is a republic and has three branches of goverment the u.s. also after constinople they had many of the same beliefs as us

Now why the romans were better they inspired the reininsaince more than the greeks which lead to the society we see today
They built great buildings such as the aquaducts and collisium
There army was much more organized
Now for the biggy they were united unlike the greeks which had many differnt empires such as troy crete and athens which were constanltly fighting one another
Debate Round No. 2
Tmdog3758

Pro

I give you points for the truth that the Romans were more organized, but we had strategy.

1: "Well, your teamline might be Ancient Greece- a better economy, warfare and trading system. Good morning chairman, adjudicator, fellow debators and of course, the audience. Today the affirmative/ negative team's team line will be that Ancient Greece was in many, if not all, ways better than Ancient Rome.

Good things about Greece
Had a better system of trading
States more military trained in many states.
Terrain prevented many wars arising (mountainous areas)
Had a better strategic decision than many countries

Bad things about Rome
When it divided into Byzantine empire and the Western Roman empire
Its army kept on slacking off
Every now and then people would disapprove of their markets because of the crowd
https://answers.yahoo.com...

2: Looking simply at the arts, the Greeks put the Romans w-a-a-a-y in the shade. Every halfway decent Roman artist or poet stole at least half their technique from the Greeks. At least.

3: "In the year 507 B.C., the Athenian leader Cleisthenes introduced a system of political reforms that he called demokratia, or "rule by the people." This system was comprised of three separate institutions: the ekklesia, a sovereign governing body that wrote laws and dictated foreign policy; the boule, a council of representatives from the ten Athenian tribes; and the dikasteria, the popular courts in which citizens argued cases before a group of lottery-selected jurors. Although this Athenian democracy would survive for only two centuries, Cleisthenes" invention was one of ancient Greece"s most enduring contributions to the modern world."
http://www.history.com...

" A little bit after that that popular government was introduced in Greece, it also appeared on the Italian Peninsula in the city of Rome. The Romans called their system a rēsp$3;blica, or republic, from the Latin rēs, meaning thing or affair, and p$3;blicus or p$3;blica, meaning public"thus, a republic was the thing that belonged to the Roman people, the populus romanus."
http://www.britannica.com...

4: Yes it was true that the Greeks didn't work well together, but in the need they started working together and we beat you Romans.
sabarashy

Con

The romans had a larger and longer lasting empire also they have longer lasting reputation if you think of a empor the first person that comes to mind is julius ceaser ask some one what was the greatest empire was I guarantee you they will say the romans
Debate Round No. 3
Tmdog3758

Pro

I give you points for the truth that the Romans were more organized, but we had strategy.

1: "Well, your teamline might be Ancient Greece- a better economy, warfare and trading system. Good morning chairman, adjudicator, fellow debators and of course, the audience. Today the affirmative/ negative team's team line will be that Ancient Greece was in many, if not all, ways better than Ancient Rome.

Good things about Greece
Had a better system of trading
States more military trained in many states.
Terrain prevented many wars arising (mountainous areas)
Had a better strategic decision than many countries

Bad things about Rome
When it divided into Byzantine empire and the Western Roman empire
Its army kept on slacking off
Every now and then people would disapprove of their markets because of the crowd
https://answers.yahoo.com...

2: Looking simply at the arts, the Greeks put the Romans w-a-a-a-y in the shade. Every halfway decent Roman artist or poet stole at least half their technique from the Greeks. At least.

3: "In the year 507 B.C., the Athenian leader Cleisthenes introduced a system of political reforms that he called demokratia, or "rule by the people." This system was comprised of three separate institutions: the ekklesia, a sovereign governing body that wrote laws and dictated foreign policy; the boule, a council of representatives from the ten Athenian tribes; and the dikasteria, the popular courts in which citizens argued cases before a group of lottery-selected jurors. Although this Athenian democracy would survive for only two centuries, Cleisthenes" invention was one of ancient Greece"s most enduring contributions to the modern world."
http://www.history.com...

" A little bit after that that popular government was introduced in Greece, it also appeared on the Italian Peninsula in the city of Rome. The Romans called their system a rēsp$3;blica, or republic, from the Latin rēs, meaning thing or affair, and p$3;blicus or p$3;blica, meaning public"thus, a republic was the thing that belonged to the Roman people, the populus romanus."
http://www.britannica.com...

4: Yes it was true that the Greeks didn't work well together, but in the need they started working together and we beat you Romans.

Sum: why I should win. Also I have many resources. So it is you v.s. me and others. I have the strength of numbers and you are barely even attacking my answers whereas I am fully combating your answers. All of my previous arguments and resources stand tall and firm. Please side with me and vote Greek.
sabarashy

Con

sabarashy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Tmdog3758 2 years ago
Tmdog3758
I am literally taking a class on this subject of Rome versus Greek. I am so not gonna loose this. Please side with me and help me say Greeks are better. Romans stole everything from Greek.
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
@sabarashy, you should include some historical evidence to support that.

I personally prefer the Greeks.
Posted by dr_orbital 2 years ago
dr_orbital
Great question! Lets ask Etruscans!
Posted by Randomguy69 2 years ago
Randomguy69
And I'm better than you
No votes have been placed for this debate.