The Instigator
shoutevenshy
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
NotThatClever
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Gun Control

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/9/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 316 times Debate No: 79546
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

shoutevenshy

Pro

I am pro gun control, because it is a fact that the possession of guns is more likely to cause than security. (source: http://www.theguardian.com...)

Guns are dangerous weapons designed to harm other people, there is no reason why this should be handed out to civilians as if they were candy.

It's irresponsible and dangerous. 17,000 murders occur on average every year in the states (source: http://www.disastercenter.com...) 11,000 of these are caused by firearms. (source: http://www.washingtonpost.com...)
NotThatClever

Con

Hello and thank you for this debate. I look forward to debating you.

Point 1. People are generally safer and less likely to become a victim of crime if they are armed. Guns are not used more often in crime than defense.
"According to the National Self Defense Survey conducted by Florida State University criminologists in 1994, the rate of Defensive Gun Uses can be projected nationwide to approximately 2.5 million per year"
http://www.hoplofobia.info...

According to the FBI, gun crime is down.
"The new study found U.S. firearm homicides peaked in 1993 at 7.0 deaths per 100,000 people. But by 2010, the rate was 49% lower, and firearm-related violence -- assaults, robberies, sex crimes -- was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993, the study found."
http://www.cnn.com...

According to the Crime Prevention Research Center and backed by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, concealed carry permits have risen from about 2.7 million in 1999 to 11.1 million in 2014. This does not account for the States like AZ that have no requirement for a concealed carry license.
http://crimeresearch.org...

Point 2. Guns are not handed out like candy. Without valid evidence to support this claim, I am forced to dismiss it.

Point 3. Yes, 11,000 (or there about) gun homicides are committed every year in the US. I make the distinction between homicide and murder (as stated by you) though. Your link even makes this distinction. Why is it relevant? Because a percentage of those gun homicides are deemed justifiable. When the police shoot an armed suspect to death, that homicide is recorded in those 11,000. So is the homeowner shooting the person breaking into their home. So no, there are not 11,000 gun murders per year.

All of that has little to do with my point of view though. Our Constitution must be amended for lawful gun control to be enacted. Without a Constitutional amendment, nothing can legally change. I would also argue that any current restrictions on firearm ownership is unconstitutional. There have been many judges that have pushed the gun control agenda via judicial activism and I believe they were violating their oath of office in doing so.

That being said, the 'pro gun control' agenda is not centered around Constitutional amendment and therefore it is wrong and no one should support it. Notice how Constitutional amendment is not a bullet point.
http://www.ncsl.org...

Again, thank you for this debate and I look forward to the next round.
Debate Round No. 1
shoutevenshy

Pro

Point 1: False: People are more likely to find themselves in unsafe situation if armed, they are more likely to cause harm than prevent it. Compare the states with any other country with gun control and the numbers are incomparable. 9,000 deaths from firearms in the US compared to two and three digit numbers in other western countries (source: http://www.theguardian.com...)

Point 2. Guns are available in super markets in America - where they also sell candy. This is very irresponsible.

Point 3. Actually no, an officer killing a person is not listed under murder - the numbers I gave you were legit murders.
NotThatClever

Con

I thank you for your prompt reply and for being courteous.

Point 1. I will leave it up to the voters to determine who has met the burden of proof on this point. I have posted 3 separate links and one of them cite the FBI crime report as their reference. You have posted the same news article twice.

Point 2. Your assertion was that they handed guns out like candy. You have now backed away from that and modified your statement to selling them where candy is also sold. You have declared this as "irresponsible". No matter what Federal Firearms Licensed dealer sells you a gun, you will be subject to the same NICS check. This means that if I purchase a pistol at 'Bob's guns' or 'Walmart', I will still be required to follow the same rules and will be subject to a records check.

I should also like to point out that candy has nothing to do with it. I take it that you would be just as displeased if a gun store also had a .25 cent bubblegum machine by the counter as you are at a "supermarket" selling guns? If so, what is the correlation to candy and firearms that has you so upset? If not, what amount of candy sold constitutes cause for concern?

Point 3. I have cited my sources and stand by them. You are still conflating murder with homicide. In the link you provided ( I will re-post directly below) they clearly state "homicide" and not "murder".
"According to homicide data collected by the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, and compiled by The Guardian newspaper"
http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Definitions:
Murder: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
Homicide: The killing of one human being by another.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Note the difference here. One is unlawful no matter what. Murder is unlawful; homicide on the other hand, does not carry the prerequisite of "unlawful" to the definition of the death. What this means is that not all homicides are murder, but all murders are homicide. This is a very important distinction when citing gun homicides.

Furthermore, if you look at the UN study that your link cited and scroll down to figure 1.3, you will see that North America has the lowest rate of murder in the Americas. You will also see the North America has a lower murder rate than the world average. That bears repeating; The average murder rate of the world is higher than that of North America. We also have a lower murder rate than Eastern Europe, Central Asia, South, East, West, and Central Africa, and even lower than the Caribbean.
In fact, when broken down by country, the US is not even in the top 100 for murders.
http://www.unodc.org...

Again, that was information garnered from your linked source.

Thank you for your careful review if the sources I provided. I look forward to the next round.
Debate Round No. 2
shoutevenshy

Pro

shoutevenshy forfeited this round.
NotThatClever

Con

NotThatClever forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by NotThatClever 1 year ago
NotThatClever
I apologize for my abrupt departure from this debate. I was taken ill and spent more than a week in the hospital. I regret not being able to finish this debate. Please accept my humble apologies.
Posted by IndianaFrank 1 year ago
IndianaFrank
I was told the other day that people who have permits to carry are far more likely to use the guns when they get into a confrontation than someone who does not carry a firearm. I'm currently 70 years old and have had a permit to carry and have done so since I was 22 years old. Not once during that time did I ever draw the weapon during a confrontation or even expose it to scare the other person off. So why didn't I ? Because I'm a law abiding citizen, that's why....
Posted by KasiaLynne 1 year ago
KasiaLynne
So how do you propose the officials keep guns from criminals? They can make their own guns or get them on the black market. Plus Hitler disarmed Germans and look at what he did to the German people and other countries.
Posted by Dpg36 1 year ago
Dpg36
I'm going with notThatclever

It's not the gun that kills people its the persons brain. That takes all kinds of prescription drugs and then goes home and play all kinds of violent video games, which messes alot of the brain cells and all these massive shootings these guys have been known to be on hardcore prescription drugs and hardcore video gamers.. And say we ban all guns which is next kitchen knives? Baseball bats? Stones? You see its not gunna fix the problem.... Another thing is that if we hand over our guns to the government like law-abiding (citizens)...whos gunna be left with the guns people who don't obey the law (criminals).
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