The Instigator
mandorangerwolf777
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
dizzyy
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Gun control in the school

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/19/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 492 times Debate No: 89919
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

mandorangerwolf777

Pro

Why do people think guns in school is bad? I am not saying that the children should have guns, but the teachers should be allowed to.
dizzyy

Con

In some ways it's a good idea, yet there are more cons than pros to having guns in school.
Debate Round No. 1
mandorangerwolf777

Pro

If a shooter enters a school, and no one in that school has a gun, it is the recipe for a disaster. Here are some of my arguments for teachers having concealed carry permits.

1. Getting a concealed carry permit does not mean you can get a pistol that day. Those who get these have to go through several steps, including background checks, fingerprinting, and classes on shooting. Someone who has a concealed carry will be able to hit a target rather proficiently. Adding to that, teachers should already be background checked, so there is less of a chance of an unsavory character being in possession of a weapon while being around children.

2. The guns would need to be out of reach of the students, but having a gun in the classroom that the teacher can easily get to means that the chance of survival if a shooter targets the classroom much higher.

3. Criminals historically target those who they think are unarmed and vulnerable. They will not attack a place that is able to easily defend themselves, because many shooters want media attention, which will happen if they create a massacre, not if they are the only casualty.

4. When in a fight or die situation, an example being cornered in a room with a shooter, the better option is to fight, because otherwise you will die anyway. A teacher having a gun is an excellent way of defending yourself.
dizzyy

Con

dizzyy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
mandorangerwolf777

Pro

Criminals generally do not want to get shot. As such, they target establishments that make them safer. A sign that says 'This store is a gun free zone' does not prevent criminals from entering with a gun. They are going to break the law by shooting anyway, a sign does not matter to them.

Here are some facts that show that gun control does not help.

1. The 9 European nations that have the lowest citizen gun ownership have a combined murder rate three times that of the combined murder rate of the 9 European nations with the highest rate of gun ownership.

2. About 200,000 women use a gun to protect from sexual assault in the US every year.

3. Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws and in 2012 there were as many murders in Chicago as in all of Japan.

4. When Kennesaw, Georgia passed a law that required that every home had to have a gun, crime dropped by 50% over the next 23 years, and there was an 89% drop in burglaries.

(infowars.com)
dizzyy

Con

dizzyy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
mandorangerwolf777

Pro

Answer this:
How many school shootings could have been stopped by a teacher with a gun.

How many have been stopped? Here is ten examples, and there are many more.

1. In Chicago earlier this year, an Uber driver with a concealed-carry permit "shot and wounded a gunman [Everardo Custodio] who opened fire on a crowd of people."

2. In a Philadelphia barber shop earlier this year, Warren Edwards "opened fire on customers and barbers" after an argument. Another man with a concealed-carry permit then shot the shooter; of course it"s impossible to tell whether the shooter would have kept killing if he hadn"t been stopped, but a police captain was quoted as saying that, "I guess he [the man who shot the shooter] saved a lot of people in there."

3. In a hospital near Philadelphia, in 2014, Richard Plotts shot and killed the psychiatric caseworker with whom he was meeting, and shot and wounded his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman. Silverman shot back, and took down Plotts. While again it"s not certain whether Plotts would have killed other people, Delaware County D.A. Jack Whelan stated that, "If the doctor did not have a firearm, (and) the doctor did not utilize the firearm, he"d be dead today, and I believe that other people in that facility would also be dead"; Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux similar said that he "believe[d] the doctor saved lives." Plotts was still carrying 39 unspent rounds when he was arrested. [UPDATE: I added this item since the original post.]

4. In Plymouth, Pa., in 2012, William Allabaugh killed one man and wounded another following an argument over Allabaugh being ejected from a bar. Allabaugh then approached a bar manager and Mark Ktytor and reportedly pointed his gun at them; Ktytor, who had a concealed-carry license, then shot Allabaugh. "The video footage and the evidence reveals that Mr. Allabaugh had turned around and was reapproaching the bar. Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night," Luzerne County A.D.A. Jarrett Ferentino said.

5. Near Spartanburg, S.C., in 2012, Jesse Gates went to his church armed with a shotgun and kicked in a door. But Aaron Guyton, who had a concealed-carry license, drew his gun and pointed it at Gates, and other parishioners then disarmed Gates. Note that in this instance, unlike the others, it"s possible that the criminal wasn"t planning on killing anyone, but just brought the shotgun to church and kicked in the door to draw attention to himself or vent his frustration.

6. In Atlanta in 2009, Calvin Lavant and Jamal Hill broke into an apartment during a party and forced everyone to the floor. After they gathered various valuables, and separated the men and the women, and Lavant said to Hill, "we are about to have sex with these girls, then we are going to kill them all," and began "discussing condoms and the number of bullets in their guns." At that point, Sean Barner, a Marine who was attending Georgia State as part of the Marine Enlisted Commissioning Education Program, managed to get to the book bag he brought to the party; took out his gun; shot and scared away Hill; went into the neighboring room, where Lavant was about to rape one of the women; was shot at by Lavant, and shot back and hit Lavant, who then ran off and later died of his injuries. One of the women was shot and wounded in the shootout, but given the circumstances described in the sources I linked to, it seemed very likely that Lavant and Hill would have killed (as well as raped) some or all of the partygoers had they not been stopped. This incident of course involves a member of the military, not a civilian, so some may discount it on those grounds. But Barner was acting as a civilian, and carrying a gun as a civilian (he had a concealed carry license); indeed, if he had been on a military base, he would generally not have been allowed to carry a gun except when on security duty. [UPDATE: I added this item since the original post.]

7. In Winnemucca, Nev., in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with 300 people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed-carry license). It"s not clear whether Villagomez would have killed more people; the killings were apparently the result of a family feud, and I could see no information on whether Villagomez had more names on his list, nor could one tell whether he would have killed more people in trying to evade capture.

8. In Colorado Springs, Colo., in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn"t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have (UPDATE: he apparently went to the church with more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition).

9. In Edinboro, Pa., in 1998, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun " possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I"ve seen are unclear " when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It"s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.

10. In Pearl, Miss., in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. I have seen sources that state that Woodham was on the way to Pearl Junior High School to continue shooting, though I couldn"t find any contemporaneous news articles that so state.

(www.washingtonpost.com)
dizzyy

Con

dizzyy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
mandorangerwolf777

Pro

It is true that there are ways to stop shootings that do no involve guns. Just look at Southwestern Highschool, a small highschool in the rural town of Shelbyville, Indiana. However, gun control will not help. It is not necessary to make it mandatory for teachers to have guns, but it should not be illegal. Parents who have problems with this can always let their kids go to a school where the teachers do not have guns.
dizzyy

Con

dizzyy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by ruairi50 1 year ago
ruairi50
The information of the concealed carry permit is a little bit backwards. You need to pass the test before you get the permit, not the firearm.
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