The Instigator
Smarticles
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
Ragnar_Rahl
Pro (for)
Winning
76 Points

Guys thinking they can do things better than girls

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/16/2008 Category: Technology
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 8,362 times Debate No: 1871
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (27)
Votes (27)

 

Smarticles

Con

First of all guys aren't any better than girls are! We can do sports just as well as guys. We may not always have as much muscle but we can be faster and smaller so better at dodging. Girls aren't helpless!
Ragnar_Rahl

Pro

Girls are faster now?

The mens world record for the 100 metre is 9.74s. The womens' is 10.49.

For the mile: Men's is 3:43 (minutes and seconds), womens' is 4:12.

Marathon: men's 2:04 (hours and minutes, womens is 2:15.

You seem to want to limit the argument to physical capability (considering your "dodge" statement a fight perhaps...

Overall in most categories men are on average and at the heights athletically superior. This says little about individuals of course.
Debate Round No. 1
Smarticles

Con

Just because you guys can play football better doesn't mean anything. And some of you take steriods which happens to be illegal but people still do it to get better at sports. And don't try to tell me that people get those humongous muscles from working out. It's impossible! Especially in two days. And many girls have been beating guys at sports like tennis, swimming, pro ice skating, which I am involved in myself and can say that girls are more graceful and have better balance at many sports and can play better. And our small figures let us do many more sports without being weighed down my huge muscles. Girls have also started beating guys at tae kwondo, judo, badmitten, and martial arts. The only other reason guys are beating us is because many girls are too afraid to join what may be called a "male sport" because people think they couldn't be good even though they could be much better at guys at it, for example, soccer and basketball. Even baseball, and if you consider this as a sport, archery.
Ragnar_Rahl

Pro

The fact that some males take steroids is not a factor the adjustment of which will have consequences for our argument. After all, some females take steroids too (see Marion Jones), and the documented differences predate the steroid era.

I don't know who gets "humongous muscles" in "two days," so you have an anecdote without even anecdotal evidence, double fallacy :D.

Tennis: The last time top pros in tennis for each gender squared off, the male was really really old. Bring whoever ya want for a few matches against Roger Federer, I dare ya :D.

swimming: I'm not familiar with the sport, any evidence that males and females of comparable tiers within their respective leagues have swam against one another with the females consistently coming out on top?

Ice skating: Now I know that at least in the olympics, those are entirely separate events, so they haven't been compared. And unless you are talking about speed skating or hockey, the sport (figure skating) is entirely subjective in rating players (it relies upon judge's aesthetic opinions rather than achievement of a predetermined objective).

"Grace" is not meaningful to me. If you think females are better at x sport in its totality, prove it.

I don't know about badminton, but show me one woman who can beat one professional male fighter in any of the martial arts you mention. Just one. Pretty please. And then try and find the averages.
All one has to do is watch the quality of play in NBA vs. WNBA to laugh at your basketball claims. Soccer I'm sure is more even, but there is still no evidence that girls would be "much better" than guys at it on the average.

There is a trick in debating that I'm sure you'd find useful. It's called providing evidence. If you cannot deduce x from accepted premises, and you cannot get it by induction from evidence, you need not be making an argument about it.
Debate Round No. 2
Smarticles

Con

So you think that girls can get beaten by guys be your small amount of examples?? The onlt reason people think guys are better at girls at basketball is because the people on NBA have had plenty of practice. No one really gives girls a chance because they think they are going to suck. See if it was the other way around and guys wouldn't be given a chance you would probably be as pissed off as us girls. And every other guy too. Its not fair that everyone thinks guys can do everything better. We can do everything just as well. And any girl could beat a male in martial arts if they tried.

In your last argument you spoke about Marion Jones. If males were caught doing steroids I'm pretty sure that alot more of them would be sent to jail then females. I'm sure almost every wrestler on tv has taken steroids. Just go on Google and search for men who have taken steroids in sports. I bet you will find many. And as for the evidence for soccer and figure skating, its called watching tv! O o my gosh.
Ragnar_Rahl

Pro

"No one really gives girls a chance because they think they are going to suck."

Really. Where is it you aren't being given a chance? Title IX ensures that in high schools (at least the public ones, the vast majority) have at least as many athletic programs (often more) for females as males.

In college, much the same occurs.

And don't even try telling me WNBA players do not get a chance to practice :D.

"See if it was the other way around and guys wouldn't be given a chance you would probably be as pissed off as us girls. "

As a matter of fact I am not "given a chance." It has nothing to do with gender, I simply was rejected every time I asked my parents if I could compete in organized sports (notably football). You however are apparently in ice skating, which I presume is your sport of choice.

So it IS the other way around, at least in our cases. I'm rather pissed off of course, but mostly about other things. :D

"Its not fair that everyone thinks guys can do everything better. We can do everything just as well. And any girl could beat a male in martial arts if they tried."

Contradiction. You say "just as well" and then say "any girl could beat a male," implying both equality and superiority at the same paragraph, and providing zero evidence for either. Find me a woman who can fight Fedor Emilianenko to a draw and I'll concede the debate.

Fair is notoriously arbitrary, but so far the evidence points toward males doing sports (which are not of course everything) better the majority of the time.

"In your last argument you spoke about Marion Jones. If males were caught doing steroids I'm pretty sure that alot more of them would be sent to jail then females." I don't see your point. Males are caught doing steroids, some of them are sent to jail, but mostly the suppliers. Marion Jones is in jail because she plead guilty to perjury, not on steroid charges.

I am of course opposed to anti-steroid laws (for either gender) but that is a different debate.

The reason more males than females take steroids is because steroids happen to work better with fewer side effects in male bodies. Why? Because they (some of them) are male hormones. Hmm, becoming more male improves sports performance, that's odd :D.

"And as for the evidence for soccer and figure skating, its called watching tv! O o my gosh."

Every time I have watched the world cup (the only soccer I watch) the quality of play is better on the male end.

I don't watch figure skating.

In any event, "TV" is not admissible evidence. Show me numbers, show me facts, don't just pretend a certain medium acts like you are right., because TV as it happens only shows what it wants to show, and is rather unscientific.

You have provided no evidence through this debate, and the entire history of human evolution (e.g. males evolving to do most of the athletic tasks such as hunting, females evolving in a manner more consistent with having to account for children) makes your claim rather extraordinary and therefore requiring extraordinary evidence.

This does not mean it will always stay this way of course... women and men are athletically closer to equality now than they were 100 years ago, and in the future may be more so. Individual women should do whatever they are capable of, and for some of them that may involve the same sports as men. But there is no reason to believe, and plenty of reason not to believe, that men and women collectively are exactly equal in athletic ability.
Debate Round No. 3
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
because then you wouldn't have an opponent? :D
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
Why would a girl try to argue that girls are equal to guys physically? Why not go for the mental argument which makes much more sense?
Posted by Korezaan 9 years ago
Korezaan
"I don't know who gets "humongous muscles" in "two days," so you have an anecdote without even anecdotal evidence, double fallacy :D."

NNNNNNNIIIIICCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter who can run faster or "dodge" better. All of that is irrelevant in the end. What life is about and what being human means, is how many people we can have a positive effect on and how well we can each replicate our lives after 'good'. Men and women are equal in this category and that should be the only idea taken into consideration. On all the other stuff, men and women balance out in the end because we are both essential to maintaining human life."

Although I am not supporting any kind of inequal valuing of genders here, no. Life is not about "having a positive effect" on a certain number of people, nor is it about replication. Life is an end to be lived for the sake of oneself alone, by producing that which one values. Maintaining human life in the collective sense is not an end in itself, only a side effect.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Dropped Arguments, Lack Of Evidence, Logical Fallacies, Oh My!

Seriously though, arguing that girls are just as good in sports as guys isn't a good example for the equality thing. The fact is, the genetic traits that were bred into the male half of our species predetermine (for the most part) that men will beat women in sports (given a level playing field). Now, that isn't to say that women are not equal. In fact, women as a whole are more valued by a community, and thus bred to have other traits that wouldn't be used in sports. Men are generally used for competition (strictly in the communal sense) and women aren't. Now, of course there are exceptions, but alas.

Anyway, your point is moot. It's widely accepted that men are better at sports, but it's also widely accepted that both men and women are just as valuable. It also doesn't help to use emotional appeal and no evidence in a format that it's nigh impossible to use emotional appeal in.
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
Women! can't live with em, can't live without em.
Posted by mrmatt505 9 years ago
mrmatt505
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter who can run faster or "dodge" better. All of that is irrelevant in the end. What life is about and what being human means, is how many people we can have a positive effect on and how well we can each replicate our lives after 'good'. Men and women are equal in this category and that should be the only idea taken into consideration. On all the other stuff, men and women balance out in the end because we are both essential to maintaining human life.
Posted by penguin2 9 years ago
penguin2
women just have lot of furry take this debate for example,
Smarticles just seems to scream everything (i say that because of all the capital lettering and all the exclamation points)while the other dude is all calm....lol
beside Borat says women have smaller brains!!! HA
-kidding ladies

but in reality no one can say men are stronger, faster, better, or for that matter smarter...cause us males tend to revolve the world around their heads...not the onces above our necks either
Posted by SportsGuru 9 years ago
SportsGuru
Smarticles:
You have provided no evidence to support your claims. As the instigator, you have the burdern to prove WITH EVIDENCE your claim. Your opponent simply refuted your (albiet emotional) argument with evidnce that was within the framework you created in your opening argument. Your entire "arguement" is girls arn't given a chance, and non-quantified "evidence". Judging by your arguements and your comment about a male debating you, you seem to think that many if not most/all males are close to or along the lines of a male chauvnist pig. Yes both me and your opponent have y chromosomes BUT, that does not determene our opinions on women. I am fine if you want to prove that in the field of athletics but PROVE IT. I am tired of people using emotional appeal to win against an opponent who had a better argument(ex. Think about the children!!!!!). In case you have not noticed this id Debate.org not use emotion to overcome unreleated, bad, and unevidenced arguments.com
Posted by attrition 9 years ago
attrition
I don't know why women are always feeling disparaged because men can play sports better. It's are muscle mass and our very nature that gives us the advantage. Woman are better at some things then men are, I can accept this things. Such as life. Games of skill like, pool, darts, video games, poker etc., all can be played just as good as men. I have a girl friend that kicks my butt in pool all the time. Occasionally I win and take great pride in it.
27 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 6 years ago
Man-is-good
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Reasons for voting decision: Con failed to provide the burden of proof.
Vote Placed by brokenboy 6 years ago
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