The Instigator
Tatarize
Pro (for)
Losing
13 Points
The Contender
alto2osu
Con (against)
Winning
97 Points

Half the planets in this solar system have planetary rings.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/27/2009 Category: Science
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,104 times Debate No: 8443
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (11)
Votes (19)

 

Tatarize

Pro

Half the planets have planetary rings.

Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Of the 8 that are in this solar system a solid 4/8 or one half have ring systems.
alto2osu

Con

I thank my opponent for introducing this fascinating astronomical topic to debate.org, but must remain in firm negation of his resolution, as it is mathematically and scientifically incorrect.

Though there are 4 standard planets and 4 giant planets recognized by the International Astronomical Union, as well as 5 dwarf planets: Pluto, Ceres, Haumea, MakeMake, & Eris. Essentially, the IAU has chosen to define these planets as having their own elliptical orbit around the sun. However, these bodies are significantly smaller than the other 8 recognized planets. Pluto, which is only the second largest dwarf planet in our solar system (being 27% smaller than Eris), is approximately half the diameter of Mercury, the first standard planet.

http://www.nineplanets.org...
http://www.nineplanets.org...

In this case, leading astronomers (including a large group of senior space scientists from NASA) will tell you that size, in fact, does not matter. The orbit makes the difference, and leading scientists object to the IAU's new categorizations as there is no scientific basis for differentiating smaller planets as non-planets. As Dr. David Morrison puts it:
"Astronomers use adjectives such as giant and dwarf to describe different subclasses of objects like planets, stars and galaxies, so why could Pluto not remain as a dwarf planet just as Jupiter is a giant planet…Also, around 90 per cent of the planets we know now are outside our solar system, but under the International Astronomical Union's definition, they cannot be classed as planets."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

The IAU's unilateral and illogical decision to discriminate on planets via a size-ist paradigm is scientifically unnecessary. Though it is true that Pluto, like the other 4 classified dwarf planets, have not managed to entirely clear their orbital neighborhoods, even the IAU cannot bring itself to declassify Pluto entirely—it is still called a planet. For some inexplicable reason, though, it cannot be a planet in our solar system. Hence, since the IAU has named these planets dwarf planets, it only makes logical sense that they be classified as planets of the solar system.
With these inclusions, the number of planets in the solar system would be increased to 13. Hence, 4/13 of our planets have visible rings, which is closer to 1/3 than �.

And, if the above is not sufficient reason to negate, consider that all planets of our solar system, including the terrestrial planets, have ring systems. Visibility and stability are preserved by the giant planet's gravitational forces, but the foundational forces necessary to collect particles around a planet are shared by all. Also, thinner gas and solid object rings are still present, but not thick enough to be readily visible. My opponent never specifies visibility or stability to be a necessity, however.

Hence, another appropriate mathematical answer to his resolution is that 13/13 planets have rings, which is clearly not �. Even if you don't think that the dwarf planets have the gravitational pull to possess the potential to form rings or to have invisible rings (though the IAU's definition of a dwarf planet would contradict you), that's still 8/13.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu...

The resolution is negated.
Debate Round No. 1
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Damn...terrible grammatical error:

"Though there are 4 standard planets and 4 giant planets recognized by the International Astronomical Union, as well as 5 dwarf planets: Pluto, Ceres, Haumea, MakeMake, & Eris."

Should read: "...recognized by the International Astronomical Union, THERE ARE as well 5 dwarf..."

Duh...
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
I heart short debates...
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Planetary rings can be invisible. All planets have rings. Their stability, constitution, and visibility vary, but they all have rings.

For example, if you were able to dump lots and lots and lots of sand directly around Earth, an unstable ring would form until it was able to fly loose from the planet's gravitational force. The rings are there, but unstable and the forces that form them are unable to keep debris for as long as the giant planets can.
Posted by Rob1Billion 7 years ago
Rob1Billion
planetary rings are pretty clearly defined by astronomers
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Kleptin: that's the one I was thinking about running...
Posted by Kleptin 7 years ago
Kleptin
Maybe argue that all planets have cosmic dust surrounding them to some extent?
Posted by Tatarize 7 years ago
Tatarize
Deleted that extra s. Screw that loophole.

You could win it by arguing Pluto a planet or suggesting more rings. Or others. But, eh.

The last debate I posted was pretty much the same and he argued that Earth has rings like the ones you wear around your finger. Pfft. Those aren't planetary rings. Find a real loophole damn it.
Posted by Kleptin 7 years ago
Kleptin
The best thing about this debate is that you can win it without having to really argue that Pluto is a planet. I was going to dig up articles from before 2006 about Pluto as a planet, then accuse Tatarize for misleading the audience, and providing a mathematical argument.

You might lose points for conduct (depending), but objectively, you would win argument and sources.

A sleazy win, but then again, so is any resolution that is a clear fact.
Posted by Rob1Billion 7 years ago
Rob1Billion
oh wait he said solar system"s"... could be a semantical loophole in there!
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
I don't like the indefinite voting period, though I'd take this just to argue that Pluto is a planet.
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Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by alto2osu 7 years ago
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