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The Contender
Con (against)
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Halo has a more expanded mythos than any other science-fiction game franchise

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2014 Category: Games
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,161 times Debate No: 44169
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (1)




********************BEGIN ENTRY********************

INTRODUCTION: Greetings! I am 16807 Zealous Client. I am the Monitor of Installation 06. I have instigated this debate to test the effective mythos levels of the science-fiction gaming franchise designated Halo. To do this, I propose that, the mythos of Halo is more expanded upon than any other science-fiction gaming franchise. (Example: Mass Effect.)

I hope to complete a relaxed, polite debate.

DEFINITIONS: I am relying on Reclaimer wisdom to interpret all the words correctly and, to apply context. However, I feel that, I must clarify upon two points.

Mythos is the total sum of information that can be gathered about a franchise from trusted sources and publications. This includes, but is not limited to, books, comic books, soundtracks, games, etc...

Second, "expanded" does not mean "more mythos"; it means the level of developed content.

RULES: (Standard rules on conduct apply, including hacking into unacceptable debates, vote bombing from fake accounts, etc...)

O You must only choose one gaming franchise and cannot switch between franchises.
O The gaming franchise must be, primarily, a game. Dynasty Warriors: Gundam, for example, is not allowed, as that is primarily a series of T.V. shows.
O All definitions must come from, if possible.
O The comments section cannot harbour extended arguments or sources.
O Reclaimer Opponent, designate CON, must use Round One for acceptance and for opening arguments.
b) CON must put - and only put - "No Round posted here as agreed." in Round Four.
O Sources must be cited for every major claim made. Any minor claim made can go without sources.
b) However, upon request from myself or CON, sources must be cited, for minor-claims-clarification and proof.
c) Reclaimer Voters will judge which claims were major and whether sources were appropriately given.
O CON must have completed one three-Round (or higher) debate before requesting permission to access this Debating Terminal.
b) Said debate must have been completed on

NOTES: Please, post a comment for any questions or objections. Also, should you wish to take the designate, CON for this debate, you must submit a request, that includes the franchise you intend to do, in the comments section.

Thank you.


********************END ENTRY********************


Hello Zealot! Peace and salutation.

I fazz, codename: Masterchief Ibliss reporting for Debate!

I wish my worthy opponent GOOD LUCK!

Please proceed with the first round of debate...
Debate Round No. 1


********************BEGIN ENTRY********************

INTRODUCTION: I thank CON for his acceptance of this debate. I hope we can both benefit from it. I must make one, brief note first, however. CON, you violated a rule that was instigated for this debate: "O Reclaimer Opponent, designate CON, must use Round One for acceptance and for opening arguments."_PRO, Round One. This is a pity, although, as I am sure CON will attest to as well, CON merely made a simple error in his eagerness to start the debate. Therefore, I will overlook this error. Nevertheless, CON, please be more careful in the future.

Now that is logged and out of the way, I shall precede with my opening contentions.

Halo, as a franchise, is aided by numerous sources of information, each building upon one another. Halo has nine total games[1]: Combat Evolved, Combat Evolved: Anniversary, 2, 3, 4, 3: ODST, REACH, Wars, and Spartan Assault NOTE 1. These represent the backbone, from which all other knowledge can grow. While it is certainly the games that most Reclaimers NOTE 2 will identify with, Halo also has so much more.

While I won't list them, Halo also has 12 original soundtracks[1], 13 novels[1] (one of which contains multiple short stories), 7 comic books[1], 10 books (that aren't novels), and 9 other forms of media[1]. NOTE 3

Do not misunderstand; this is not about the sheer number of mythos that support Halo; this is about the diversity that Halo can encompass. From games, to live-action films, to books, to even a - cancelled, admittedly - full length film, Halo has continued to expand to surround almost all aspects of media.

There are also forms of media - such as podcasts - that I won't mention, as I believe that you are beginning to see the full picture. Halo's mythos is expanded beyond comparison.

In comparison, let us examine Final Fantasy's (this was CON's choice) media for a moment. As you would expect from a gaming franchise, games and soundtracks to them are plentiful. To properly examine the mythos levels, we need to see how expanded out they are. I do concede that Final Fantasy has released two feature-length animations, called The Spirits Within and VII: Advent Children, respectively.[2]NOTE 1

However, The Spirits Within was a failure by almost all standards. It had (and presumably, spent) a budget of $137 million U.S. dollars, but only managed to acquire ~$85 million back.[3] Financially, a failure. It scored 44% on Rotten Tomatoes[4], so it, publicly, did not do very well. Also, on Metacritic, it received only 49/100, for its professional reviews.[5] Indeed, not very well at all.

I do not wish to spend all of my time attacking CON, so I will move on, for now. Nonetheless, I will return in Round Three to demonstrate why Final Fantasy falls at many, many hurdles.

Halo is set in almost all branches of history. First and foremost, it is set during the mid to late 2500s. However, there are records dating as far back as 500,000,000 BCE and as far forward as 2610. Almost all of the in between parts are fleshed out as well. This is what is meant by "cement". Not only can Halo truthfully attest to spanning more than half a billion years in length, but each of these separate periods: Precursors, Forerunners/Ancient Humans, Covenant, Humans, (possibly) Neo-Forerunners are substantially filled in. These mythos level are off the charts!

I can give examples. For example, take the main character in most of the Halo games: The Master Chief. Many games would just leave it at that, giving some backstory, if it was appropriate. But Halo is quite different. SPARTAN-II Petty Officer Master Chief John-117 has a backstory, a future, a notable personality that is expanded upon (even though it's retracted), and more.

He also has spawned a backstory to the Halo universe. If you think about it, he started off as the main protagonist to Halo: Combat Evolved. But, through him and his traits, he spawned mythos about the SPARTAN-II Programme, the ORION Project, the SPARTAN-III and SPARTAN-IV Programmes, plus many individuals from each.

And all this information is from the main character, alone.

I will leave my two contentions here, for now, CON. However, be assured, I will introduce more in subsequent rounds.

Good day, CON.


Sources used and references made:



1) Each of these titles include Halo, or Final Fantasy before them.
2) Humans are the Reclaimers, for the audience that doesn't know.
3) I have put "Other Games" and "Other Media" together, to make this total.

********************END ENTRY********************


[i]Since, as my Zealous opponent has rightly pointed out I missed the initial round I have written a lengthy diatribe on Mythos of Video-Gaming, [/i] but.. I would like to provide a brief introduction and history of the debate. If I may?


Halo is a relatively new franchise. Final Fantasy (FF) is now in its fourteenth or fifteenth installment.. i lose count. No other game has such a .. Legendary stance about it. I understand Halo has a strong structure and foundation. But this is not about squeaky clean reputations; FFVII the best game out of the FF Franchise is indeed [b]REVOLUTIONARY [/b]. We take it for granted that Halo has well written Sci-fi Novels, and that games can have mythos. I would caution we not forget that Final Fantasy no VII created the Science Fantasy Genre, singlehandedly. It's like trying to argue that Obama is a better President than Abraham Lincoln; the idea that, if FF did not pave the way the franchise of Halo would only be just another indie game without novels, book, films and so on.

What is 'the Secret'? It is definitely years of hard crafted work. Nobou Yeumatsu, legendary in his own field of instrumental music is famous for the work he did on the seventh instalment. However, each instalment has original tracks whose album releases are as eagerly anticipate with abated breath just like the fifteen games themselves. Its not just music, the idea that a game is more than a game, and yes Halo fall into and under the [i]'Genre'/i] created by FF-franchise, is down to meticulous production of years and years of work to create completley immersed environments. This idea,.. of [i]immersed[/i] game-play creating fascinating new vision, visions of entire worlds did not (sadly enough) start at the beginning of the New Millenium, and the Dotcom age, it started decades ago in far more turbulent circumstances of the Gulf War age. Sadly, video-gaming was an art back then. You cannot really talk about Halo without talking about Doom. The predecessor to Halo made by a high-school dropout which revolutionised gaming, and revolutionised Halo [SEE link 1: Doom 'Clones']. Halo as it was [i]originally[/i] and [i]ironically[/i] titled is merely Combat Evolved. But, Doom is still the best shooter ever! The hey-day of Lucas Arts which gave us the irreverent titles such as Monkey Island trilogy and Day of the Tentacle and when companies like IBM, and Steve Jobs' Apple company were finally bearing fruit, Im sorry, but it all happened before you were even born.

That was the golden age. Now we can only pick up the residue, the fragments of childhood and try to evolve?

[b]Fiction, Music & Adaptations[/b]
Halo has a handful of novels, but the installment of seventh instalment of final fantasy itself has seven novellas (lucky number 7)? Otherwise, it is not only in prose format like Halo but in multiple product formats:
[quote]Several video games have either been adapted into or have had spin-offs in the form of manga and novels. The first was the novelization of Final Fantasy II in 1989, and was followed by a manga adaptation of Final Fantasy III in 1992.[53][54] The past decade has seen an increase in the number of non-video game adaptations and spin-offs. Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within has been adapted into a novel, the spin-off game Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles has been adapted into a manga, and Final Fantasy XI has had a novel and manga set in its continuity.[/quote]

By Mythos if you also mean the surrounding lore of a well-crafted game. Then it should include folklore: for the melancholy of the 80's still hangs heavy? Reminding us of the decay of the gaming world. That faint smell of nostalgia: Final Fantasy Fan-Fiction (See Link 2). There are over a 1000+ page imagination based novella universe, comprising 29K stories, *shrug*Halo has a handful of novels.

12 original soundtracks as noted by opponent Zealot. Please? Final Fantasy's award winning teams have over 900 individual creations. No surprise, given the [i]man behind the fiction[/i]!! (see: link 3) (No competition, here.)


I therefore, think that what you are trying to argue is that brand placement and licensed official "myths" seem fake. Like product placement of Apple Phones on television's Sopranos and so on, it seems contrived. To be truthful it has stand the TEST OF TIME. To be mythical means to live on in the imaginaton. It does not mean the "decay" of over-hyped book deals and plastic toy figures. (I mean, i'm not kickin' those who buy into it) It is [u]relevant[/u] that this, this "franchise effect", started with series such as Star Wars and Star Trek, but now has reached the nauseating stage where it almost reflexive. Its really sad how episode 1, 2, and 3 with too much over-hype ruined the imagination of the fans, for the Star Wars series. Its not only bad, its an [i]anti-[/i]-MYTHOS [link 4], its Sacriliege!

As con, I argue that my compatriot has put forth a definition (But this is rubbish, as he himself has cited link 4!) - And has contradicted himself in the process! my Opponent argues mythos is expanded level of content, hence - [i]quality[/i]? This is a David and Goliath situation. Taking upon Hercule's mission he seems to think that the material he puts forth qualifies under his defintion ("mythos"). His definition only qualifies under his terminology, and hence only under his definitions and terms. He has shot himself in the foot.

The well-crafted pre-packaged "official" story based novels of [i]his[/i] franchise can never recreate the experience of Mythology. Indeed, Halo is fiction, whereas mythology of Final Fintasy, Star Wars, LOTR, Lucas Arts, Sid Meiers this created a complex network of fan-support that is not [i]erasable[/i] something that will live on and on..
Links, in-text:
[1] Clone Games: []
[2] Fan-Fiction: []
[3] Nobou Uematsu: []
[4] From the official "handbook" of handbooks as ordained by my zealous companion: []
Debate Round No. 2


16807_Zealous_Client forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


16807_Zealous_Client forfeited this round.


fazz forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by fazz 2 years ago
Note: Halo: CE, in my opinion, is the best game ever. But I am willing to bite my tongue, for an honest debate. Viva las vegas, eh?
Posted by 16807_Zealous_Client 2 years ago
That is okay, Reclaimer. I would expect you to be prepared, for a debate as serious as this.
Posted by fazz 2 years ago
Sorry. For delay. Being held up by other matters. But ideally I have to "think" before accepting.. not prepared for this!
Posted by 16807_Zealous_Client 2 years ago
I do not pick favourites, Reclaimer fazz. I monitor.
Posted by 16807_Zealous_Client 2 years ago
Very well, Reclaimer.
Posted by fazz 2 years ago
Your "age" of being a 100 year old Covenant is preventing entry..
Posted by fazz 2 years ago
Side comment: which do you think is the best game of the halo series?
Posted by fazz 2 years ago
I would like to play! I suggest Final Fantasy VII. Can you open up the castle gates? I can't apply since I just found this site day before..
Posted by 16807_Zealous_Client 2 years ago
That is a good suggestion, Reclaimer.
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
I suggest to avoid confusion, switch to "apply in comments" rules; having them state which game series in their application. But yeah, ones that began as TV series remain TV series that have a well expanded mythos into games, whereas if they started as a game and got a TV series that would say something very positive about them.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: More rounds forfeited by Pro.