Halo vs Mass Effect (Quinoas)
As the topic proclaims, this will be a galactic-scale war between the various races/factions of the Halo and Mass Effect universes. I will be supporting Halo.
The Setting:This will take place in a combined galaxy, where each star systems are still in the same relative position to one another as they would be in their respective universe. For cases where both Halo and Mass Effect have the same system, for example, Sol, there will be one for each, again, in the same relative position that they would have been in their own universe.
The Factions:Each faction/race will be in an undisputed alliance with the other factions of their universe. They will not attempt to attack each other under any circumstances, so the Reapers will not try to harvest the population of Mass Effect factions, while the Flood will not try to assimilate the factions of Halo. In addition, factions that have very little relevant information on them will be excluded, for the most part. For example, Precursors, Leviathans, Protheans, and the ancient Forerunners will not be counted. In the case of the Leviathans and the Forerunners, certain exemptions will be made. The Leviathans that are still alive as of Mass Effect 3 Leviathan DLC will be present, and the Forerunners will still have their structures (Shield worlds, Halo Rings, and such), Sentinels/Drone defense/maintenance units, and Promethean forces. Factions will start off at different time periods to make sure no faction is handicapped through events that may have occurred in their own timeline (wars primarily).
For Halo, the following factions will be represented with their starting point:
The Flood, circa Halo 2
The Covenant, circa Halo:Reach
The Forerunners, circa the end of Halo 4
The UNSC, circa the end of Halo 4
I will also provide one for Mass Effect, though it can be contested.
The Citadel Races (Council races and those with "membership"), Just prior to the Reaper Invasion
Terminus Systems (Mercenary groups, and the like), circa Mass Effect 2
The Batarians, right before the Arrival DLC
The Quarians, circa Mass Effect 2
The Geth, circa Mass Effect 3
The Reapers/Collectors, just prior to the Collector base destruction
The Krogans, post-genophage cure
Feel free to contest those, as well as add any groups that may have been left out (Within reason, there is little known about the Protheans, so they were excluded short of Javik)
First round is acceptance, and the debate will last over the rest of the rounds. I encourage that arguments be extended past the character limit, to make sure that there is a very thorough analysis, and due to the fact that there are many factors to debate. Only official canon is to to be used (Games, novelizations, and other media released by the developers and/or with official acknowledgement of canon by the developers, so no fanfictions and other things of that sort). You may also propose any other rules that you may deem appropriate. This should be done in the first round with acceptance.
So, just like before. You may start your argument instead of just acceptance though. Also, I would like it clear that if you need to exceed the character limit, by all means do so. There is a lot to discuss, and 8,000 characters, including spaces, does not do it justice.
As I see Quinoas has already done, I will simply repost my original argument regarding production value.
I’d like to start off by addressing your concerns.
“it is imposible to truely know who would win because the games you diffrent code so you cannot compare the damages,”
Though your concern about compared damage is valid, in a way, I should inform you that game mechanics are not to be considered as canon. Both Halo and Mass Effect run primarily on the laws and principles of physics as we understand them today, with varied exceptions thanks to them being fictional universes. This means we can determine the “damage” of weapons by looking at their energy, force, momentum, and so on.
For any war, production capability is extremely important. You can’t win a war if you don’t have the capacity to build fast enough. In this case, Halo has a major advantage. A shipyard on Mars, during the very end of the war, managed to produce nearly 100 warships within three months. This was a time period where the UNSC had lost hundreds of planets to the Covenant, many of which were outer-colonies that supplied shipyards like the one on Mars with resources. This was on top of the three decades of warfare that have taken their toll on the UNSC’s production capacity. Despite this handicap, they still managed nearly 100 ships in a few months. Since this is now post-Halo 4, where humanity has had four years to recover and grow, and with the fact that multiple shipyards exist, the UNSC should be capable of producing thousands of ships within the same time frame. Another production advantage that the UNSC has is their growing supply of Covenant/Forerunner Huragok (Commonly referred to as “Engineers”). These intelligent creatures, whose only focus is their work, can repair and upgrade ships within a matter of hours. John-117 (The Master Chief) observed an Engineer take apart a car’s engine and proceed to assemble it into various working structures, then returned it to its original form, all in the matter of seconds (Halo: The Fall of Reach). Having multiple of these in any shipyard would vastly increase production rates.
Now, if the Forerunners were at their full capacity, I could go on for pages about the sheer and utterly unimaginable production rates that they have displayed (10,000km diameter ring-world-weapon in a month? Child’s play), but luckily for Mass Effect, the Forerunners are not present in anywhere near full capacity. Unfortunately for Mass Effect, the production rates are still extremely impressive. Onyx is a Forerunner shield world, specifically named the “sharpened shield.” This is probably due to the fact that it is essentially a planet-sized super-weapon made out of trillions upon trillions of Onyx-brand sentinels and contains dimensionally compressed micro-dyson spheres that have diameters approaching two astronomical units (Twice the distance from Earth to the sun). These Onyx sentinels that the “planet” is made out of can combine, theoretically infinite amounts of times, while creating combined shield strength as well as weapon strength, to the point where 49 combined sentinels can demolish Covenant capital ships. They are created at various facilities found across the “planet,” with each facility pumping one out once every six seconds (Halo: Ghosts of Onyx). That means you have a capital-class grade “ship” being produced every 8-9 seconds, with only one factory. Let’s go extreme low-end, shall we? Assuming only two factories exist, that is over 20,000 warship-level combinations every day. Impressive, right? Another interesting concept is that of time-dilated slip-space bubbles that the Forerunners have mastered, and the UNSC has recovered and put to use. On the outside of the bubble (“Real-Time”) a few minutes may have passed, but on the inside of the bubble, days have gone by. Think of all the applications. The UNSC has already put it to use in food production (Halo: The Thursday War), where grains that normally take months to fully grow are made in the time frame of days. It is only a matter of time before they apply this to warship production, meaning that the few months to make nearly 100 ships turns into a few days in “real-time.”
The Covenant have production levels in the same ball-park as the UNSC, albeit faster and on a larger scale. The Covenant utilizes entire planets with the sole purpose of ship production (Halo: Ghosts of Onyx). This affords them impressive ship production levels, especially considering some of the sizes of their ships. Main-line Covenant ships are generally 1km long, or longer, meaning they are not just pumping out dinky little ships, they are pumping out ships that have equal sizes to Mass Effect Dreadnaughts (Mass Effect’s largest , most powerful, and rarest ships). Covenant building-scale is just larger than Mass Effect’s period. The Citadel, an astounding and colossal building achievement, by Mass Effect standards, is only slightly over 40km long. High Charity, the Covenant equivalent to the Citadel, is just over 360km long. See the difference in scale? Even some Covenant warships can reach nearly 30km in length (Example being The Long Night of Solace).
The Flood are an odd case when it comes to production. They don’t produce things like typical factions. They spread, they infect, and they steal what they use. This, by no means, puts them at a disadvantage. The sheer infection rate of the Flood defies the laws of thermodynamics, converting every cell of the human body into Flood Super-Cells in single-digit seconds, which should produce so much energy that the room should spontaneously catch on fire. This extends into their larger scale operations, like infecting and spreading through the city of Voi and its surrounding area in mere minutes from a single Flood-infected ship. It was to the point where the only solution was to bombard the area from orbit to stop the spread of infection (Halo 3). Within hours of landing on High Charity, the 360km or so super-city, the Flood had fully taken over, even covering large parts of the outer-hull in their biomass (Halo 2). When the Flood lands on a planet, and orbital bombardment is not used within minutes, the planet becomes covered in Flood biomass in a few days, a couple weeks if the “locals” are putting up a good fight. This overshadows the production rate of the Reapers by a wide margin, seeing as they had not fully harvested Earth despite holding it in their control for months during Mass Effect 3.
Now let’s take a gander at the production rates of Mass Effect. If one chooses to sacrifice the Arcturus Fleet to save the Destiny Ascension in Mass Effect 1, it is revealed in Mass Effect 3 that in the three year or so time difference, the Systems Alliance had not yet fully made up the ship losses during that battle (And by the visuals of the game itself, there couldn’t have been more than a few dozen losses). The Systems Alliance can’t even produce more ships than the UNSC alone in three months from one shipyard. This hurts the Systems Alliance, as it is one of the most prominent figures in the Mass effect Galaxy with a significant military presence, yet they can’t keep up with a single UNSC shipyard. Even the all-powerful Reapers take weeks, even months to produce a single Sovereign-Class Reaper through the laborious process of harvesting. But you might be saying “Well, the Quarians have a fleet of 50,000 ships, that’s pretty impressive!” While a fleet of that magnitude is impressive, one needs to remember that the Quarians qualify everything from relatively small shuttles to their massive Live-Ships as part of the fleet. Furthermore, most of the Quarian fleet was simply scavenged over the course of 300 years, with no actual ship production really occurring at all, and many of those ships are sub-par to the more “modern” fleets of the Council Races.
Quinoas forfeited this round.
Quinoas forfeited this round.
Quinoas forfeited this round.
SuperiorArsenal forfeited this round.
Quinoas forfeited this round.
|Agreed with before the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Agreed with after the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Who had better conduct:||-||-||1 point|
|Had better spelling and grammar:||-||-||1 point|
|Made more convincing arguments:||-||-||3 points|
|Used the most reliable sources:||-||-||2 points|
|Total points awarded:||5||0|