The Instigator
snamd
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
byebyepats
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Harvard is Wrong For Allowing Female only Gym Time to Accommodate Muslims

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,038 times Debate No: 3195
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (7)

 

snamd

Pro

In 1996 Yale University instituted a requirement that all Freshman must live in their co-ed dormitories. 5 Orthodox Jewish students objected to this requirement on the grounds that it violated their religious beliefs. Yale refused to allow them to live off campus and the five students were forced to bring a lawsuit.
Contrast that with how Muslims are specifically given their own gym time at Harvard.
This is not simply separate time, i.e. Mens hours and Womens hours, but time allotted specifically for Muslim women.

Other instances of Muslim accommodation are rampant across college campuses. From building feet washing rooms to split sex areas.

Why do Liberal Colleges to go out of their way to accommodate Muslim religious needs, yet not do the same for Jewish and Christian needs?

Is it because we consider their "convictions" greater than ours?? Is it fear??

I anxiously await someone explaining this to me.
byebyepats

Con

I think the answer to your question is that the muslim religion in general is more extreme in some of its beliefs compared to christianity and Judaism as a whole. Therefore there are certain accommodations needed to muslims that Judaism or Christianity would not ask for. Just because Schools provide these accommodations for muslims doesn't mean they are acting in support of these groups. This is just being respectful. By the way, what accommodations would a christian ask for? I understand some orthodox jews needing some accommodation but other than that what other accommodations would other jews and christians need? Just because the Muslim group ask for accommodations and most jews and christians don't need them, I think this is coming off to you as our schools being partial to one group over another. I just don't think this is the case.
Debate Round No. 1
snamd

Pro

Some accommodations??
First of all many Christians and Jews have very high standards of Modesty as well.
As an Orthodox Jewish male who will not go to a co-ed Gym, separate Gym time for men would be a good start. Many Christian women feel similarly. If this request had been made by Christians or by Orthodox men, it would definitely have been denied or at the very least highly protested if granted.

Other accommodations: Orthodox Jews must wash their hands in a special fashion before eating bread. Washing stations should be provided with washing cups in all cafeterias. At all Public events Kosher food should be given as well.
Or how about the case of the Orthodox students at Yale that i mentioned in the opening argument?
Or we could go to more extreme measures. It is forbidden for Orthodox Men to hear live women singing. Spontaneous outbursts of singing should be forbidden by women. Modest Dress should always be enforced.

I cant really answer for all denominations of Christians, not being one, but I am sure there are numerous ways their religious lifestyles can be made easier on college campuses.

There is plenty we could do to accommodate. But the question is, why when It is Muslims is the red carpet being rolled out when Jews and Christians have always been told that a Liberal College Campus is not a place for religion.
byebyepats

Con

I was a christian and I'm telling you 95% of christians would not ask for accommodations. These colleges we are speaking about are competing for the best college students in the world. Considering Islam is one of the biggest religions in the world it would make sense for these colleges to cater to muslim students. If these schools in fact want the best of the best then odds are some of the best are going to be muslim. Therefore in order to attract these muslim students they make accommodations.

One more thing i would like to point out. I wouldn't swear on it but I would think that the total number of muslim students would far outweigh the number of orthodox jews that would ask for similar accommodations. Therefore you and I will obviously hear about these accommodations being made more often.

The real question is are you basically saying that some of our more liberal schools are anti-semitic? Is this what your argument is really about? I can take you on in that argument too.
Debate Round No. 2
snamd

Pro

My argument is not that they are anti-semitic.
And currently in the United States there are more Jews than Muslims, and I would certainly argue that Harvard has more Orthodox Jews than devout Muslims.
My argument (or question really) is that why did these colleges never try to accommodate Jewish students.
You're answer seems to be that they are favoring Islam since they want more overseas Muslim students who would not come otherwise.
A fair argument, but the Colleges should at the very least acknowledge that they are playing favorites when it comes to religious accommodations before more resentment is created.
byebyepats

Con

I don't think you realize the numbers of the groups we are discussing. There are way many more muslims than jews. Now if i were to compare orthodox jews to muslims......well there would be even more of a difference. I'm sorry friend, you have your facts wrong.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by snamd 9 years ago
snamd
wow...
First of all... you're an idiot who clearly does not want to debate the topic on the facts. And the topic of the debate was whether it was unfair to FAVOR a particular religion over others. I did not bring examples of how other religions are discriminated against (not like in the 20's, 30's, and 40's when Harvard had quotas of Jews they would allow in) but making accommodations to these religions..
What happened to the Jews at Yale wasn't anti-semitic, but wasn't trying to accommodate them. So the question still remains (antisemitism aside) why accommodate one religion and not the other.
Moron.
Posted by ReaganConservative 9 years ago
ReaganConservative
Well maybe the Palestinians should stop firing rockets at Israel. Israel has every right to defend themselves.
Posted by byebyepats 9 years ago
byebyepats
I'm so sick of hearing about how jews are treated unfairly. Look at how they treat the palestinians. I knew this debate wasn't about the title. ITs about anti-semitism. For christ sake do some research. The Israel govt. is one of the most evil govt. around.
Posted by snamd 9 years ago
snamd
It is surprising that we would hear about this in the United States where there is a greater percentage of Jews than Muslims.
And this isn't about asking for accommodations. This is about Jews being denied (as in the case at Yale) and Muslims being granted.
And finally, who cares about numbers? Favoritism is favoritism, and if a college favors a particular religion regardless of how many there are, they must state that they are and explain why.
Posted by byebyepats 9 years ago
byebyepats
Fact: There are more muslims than jews in the world. Therefore more accomadations will be made for muslims than jews. Bottom line is that there are way more Muslims that would ask for accomadations than jews and christians combined. This is a Fact. So if a particular group ask more often for accomadations than isn't it logical that you were hear about it more?
Posted by snamd 9 years ago
snamd
All these comments in favor of my argument and only one vote?
Posted by snamd 9 years ago
snamd
Quickest reference ic ould find of percentages. Jews in the US 4.3%. Muslims .5%
http://cityeconomist.blogspot.com...
At Harvard the percentage differnece is even greater. have you ever been to Harvard??
Jews are EVERYWHERE
Posted by sadolite 9 years ago
sadolite
Liberals pick and choose whats right and wrong based on the political climate of the moment. You will never get any consistency from a liberal.
Posted by Anonymous 9 years ago
Anonymous
As a Christian, I would ask for equality. Not to have my mic shut off for thanking Jesus for helping me through high school in my valedictorian speech. To be able to pray for my friends, or offer to do so when she is crying at the lunch table or in class because of whatever. To be able to challenge the teachers assertions that her opinion is so much better and smarter than mine, when I get an F for not agreeing that the world is 65 gabillion years old...this is just a start
Posted by ReaganConservative 9 years ago
ReaganConservative
I bet if the women were Christian, the school would have laughed at them.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
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liberalconservative
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CP
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snamd
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