The Instigator
Al.Capwn
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
joshuaXlawyer
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Have Brazil, Russia, India, and China had a positive effect on the United States

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Al.Capwn
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,817 times Debate No: 6715
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

Al.Capwn

Pro

BRIC countries lend the United States a lot of money, and without China spoonfeeding us money, we wouldn't be able to finance our bailouts. Also, we have been able to outsource lots of our jobs to India and China, saving our companies money and giving people in BRIC money. Both parties win.
BRIC countries, as a product of good economies, have been able to build up their militaries to participate in United Nations peacekeeping operations, saving the United States from being obligated to fight in many conflicts across the globe, such as Somalia and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
joshuaXlawyer

Con

Okay for one yes china spoon feeding us money and all of our jobs have gone over sea helping people like say bill gates.
But guess what people that need money want to know why because bill gates (as an example) sent his X-Box 360 factorie to china and korea.
Now your say hey there still helping us last time i check we saved there butt first, we gave them our jobs and now our people are starving.
On a secound note the toys that make have given kids lead posining and have died from it.
So yes they helped our rich pigs and and let our poor die and strave and strugle.
yes the helped our goverment but not whats important the most our people.
I mean how greedy can the companies be so what your making more money but every doller them make leave someone with out a job.
To support there famlies, you took out that part of the people that live in the u.s dont matter as if the don't have any use at all.
Like this for example:"saving our companies money and giving people in BRIC money. Both parties win".
yeah the both win but what about our countrys people the don't get crap.

Example 2 :"BRIC countries, as a product of good economies, have been able to build up their militaries to participate in United Nations" . As a good product of their good economies but what kind of economies do we have practicly nothing.
Also whats this crap about "saving the United States from being obligated to fight in many conflicts across the globe"
why the heck would we fight these in the first place?(this is a question id like to be answered)

So in reality they helped other countrys not ours they only helped our companies thats all rich get richer poor get poorer.
Debate Round No. 1
Al.Capwn

Pro

Look, you're little tidbit about the 'lead poisoning'. Seriously, there have only been three or four reported cases where that lead actually hurt anyone, and the problem has been dealt with the best way the American public knows how. A big media scandal, investors taking out their shares, the company losing money, and fixing the problem.
Also, you can't help the people of a country without helping the government, unless you're proposing the U.N. start setting up food aid. Clearly, you don't understand world economics.
In world economics, the easiest, fastest way to get money from one country to another is business to business, government to government. The people can't be directly helped. Besides, you need businesses to make jobs. When businesses get money, they don't cut jobs. They cut jobs when they lose money. If a business in America doesn't get money, it doesn't have any to pay to its workers, so it cuts jobs. If it gets more money, it expands, and creates more jobs.
And it's not like China is the primary one to blame for our unemployment. Our unemployment is due to a bad economy and poor government handling of that bad economy. All China did was take some of the jobs people here didn't want to do. In order for American businesses to even compete in a global economy, they have to outsource jobs so they can expand. If businesses go down, even more jobs are lost. Therefore, we should at least keep most of the jobs and have a few people out of a job for a couple of months, rather than blaming China and losing even more.
And about the militaries. When Russia invaded Georgia, the entire world yelled at us to do something. Not the U.N., us. Every time something goes sour, we are always expected to deal with the problem. Somalia, Panama, Kosovo, the list goes on. If more and more countries started taking a more active role, like the BRIC countries are starting to, the burden would be less on our Army, so we would have more money in our own pockets.

In the end, BRIC is not the enemy, or the friend. Relationships between countries are much more complicated than that. Maybe in the future they might turn on us. But the topic of the debate is if they HAVE HAD a positive impact, and so far, they have.
joshuaXlawyer

Con

Okay for one yes i know its not all china's fault and i wasn't blaming them but this little tibit is funny really "The people can't be directly helped. Besides, you need businesses to make jobs. When businesses get money, they don't cut jobs. They cut jobs when they lose money. If a business in America doesn't get money, it doesn't have any to pay to its workers, so it cuts jobs. If it gets more money, it expands, and creates more jobs."
Let me ask one question what jobs there are practicaly none so how is this helping.

Also how about here "All China did was take some of the jobs people here didn't want to do."

You know i bet we would want them now a can garentee if you ask someone they will say that.

One of the reasons they move is because its cheaper to have korea or china or ect.

People are straving here and they dont have jobs and last time Mc D's dont have that many job openings.

Alot of the companies are moving not for the country i agree some jobs should stay there but not every one of them.

Too many people not alot of jobs if some of the jobs would come back then that would at least help.
Debate Round No. 2
Al.Capwn

Pro

All right. So you've basically proven you have no understanding of how world economics, or economics in general, work.
It operates on two quantities. Supply and Demand. Right now, we are in an economic recession/crisis, and so companies are losing money, hence they cut jobs. Once the economy gets better, the companies will have more money and expand to create more jobs again. China had no impact on this. In fact, they are in some hard times too.

Your overly exxagerated claims make America sound like a third world country right now. People are not starving here. Even the homeless can usually find a homeless shelter or soup kitchen. Countries like China and India are the places where people are really starving. Don't you think people over there would like any job that comes their way, even from an american company outsourcing?

And if we kept all of the jobs we outsourced back in america, it would only make the problem worse. Our companies would cease to be able to compete on a global scale, and would fall, losing thousands or tens of thousands more jobs than the situation now. In a global market, competition is much more tense. Outsourcing to other countries like Brazil, Russia, India, and China, has helped the United States stay in the lead, helped our companies expand back home, which means more jobs for everyone.

In conclusion, BRIC has been a valuable trading partner for us in more ways than one. It has helped us expand, and given more money to our people in the most direct way possible. Without outsourcing and getting raw materials from them, we would be eating the dust of countried like England and Japan. There is no more debate. BRIC is the only way forward in a competitive global economy. As the famous quote goes, "Use it or lose it."
joshuaXlawyer

Con

"And if we kept all of the jobs we outsourced back in america, it would only make the problem worse. Our companies would cease to be able to compete on a global scale, and would fall, losing thousands or tens of thousands more jobs than the situation now. In a global market, competition is much more tense. Outsourcing to other countries like Brazil, Russia, India, and China, has helped the United States stay in the lead, helped our companies expand back home, which means more jobs for everyone"
First of all who starts a sentence with and? and secound to this quote i say Objection!

Tell me when did i say that we should take all of the jobs back im talking about only a few just to help people here and your going to say something that i didn't say at all.

The fact of the matter is that we need jobs they need jobs we have a few states that extremly need jobs spread the jobs around, just help some in our country.

Its only reasonable to have our countries people first then trade.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Al.Capwn 8 years ago
Al.Capwn
lol i think joshuaxlawyer is voting for himself. he's apparantely winning in 'who had better spelling and grammar'. Seriously, if you're going to cheat, at least do it convincingly.
Posted by stormchaser221 8 years ago
stormchaser221
"First of all who starts a sentence with and? and secound to this quote i say Objection!" If I'm not mistaken, you stated that second sentence with and. Not trying to insult you, just thought it was ironic.
Posted by AnimeFanTony 8 years ago
AnimeFanTony
While you both did very well I have a few suggestions. Con you have good arguments I think you just need to work on your spelling and grammar and your conduct a bit.
Pro you had spelling and grammar but he had better arguments and I think you too should watch your conduct a bit. Good Luck in Future debates.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by stormchaser221 8 years ago
stormchaser221
Al.CapwnjoshuaXlawyerTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Vote Placed by hendrixliveson 8 years ago
hendrixliveson
Al.CapwnjoshuaXlawyerTied
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Total points awarded:70