The Instigator
littlelacroix
Pro (for)
Winning
42 Points
The Contender
Johnicle
Con (against)
Losing
25 Points

Having bad table manners makes you a less liked person.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/2/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,920 times Debate No: 3490
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (17)

 

littlelacroix

Pro

"A man's manners are a mirror in which he shows his portrait." ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

I apologize to my opponent, judge, and any who read this debate, but since the topic at hand is such a minor debate, I only contest one point. As my quote before mentions that a man's manners are how they themselves are viewed; thus that is my focus in this debate. Now before I move on, even though I hope this won't be a problem in this debate, I would like to just clarify a few things. As the topic is dealing with actions specifically taking place at the dining table, we are not talking about people that do not dine with the person in question. Also, to avoid the "extremes" argument, I would just like to set the grounds that we are neither talking about a single instance nor every instance. Since the topic at hand is vague, we should be looking at an average example. The people we are talking about should not have taken classes on etiquette nor have been raised by animals, but lived a normal life. The reason I would like to set this standard is to provide for the best possible debate, and I hope that you agree Mr. Cumbee.

Moving on, if the person does not have good table manners (just a few examples being burping, blowing bubbles in drinks, sloppy/childish demeanor, devouring food like a pig, talking with a mouth full of food, etc.), than the other dining across from them will be disgusted. We live in a civilized society and the majority of people have been grown up with at least some form of manners. There are some exceptions to this, but for the most part, if you walked by a table when a person is doing this, you will most likely have a bad impression of them; and in some circumstances, a person's dining experience may be a first impression, take for example, a date. If you are sitting across from someone and their table manners are sub par, they will be less liked and less attractive, even if they have an amazing personality.

"First impressions are often the truest." ~William Hazlitt

The first impression is meant to set the basis for a person's relationship with another. That is a person's basis on how the other may act in the future, and if they wish to continue hanging out with them. Without a good first impression, oftentimes you cannot reverse it, and furthermore, if you are able to reverse it, you can never reach as high of a level as you could with a good first impression. Some people may even give a second chance, but if bad manners are to continue, you will be seen as a lesser person in the eyes of those who dine next to you, no matter what. Whether it is a first or a last impression, the majority of relationships (not necessarily just romantic, this includes friendships) will have dining experiences sooner or later. Thus, having bad table manners does in fact make you a less liked person. I will patiently await your response, and good luck in the tournament Luke.

PS - I still think that you were brown-nosing me on Facebook, lol.
Johnicle

Con

Mr. LaCroix, another good tournament debate… Trust me when I say I would much rather go against you round 6 or maybe round 10… Nevertheless, when our names came up to go against each other, I wasn't going to be unfair and change it, so we must move forward… Good luck to what seems to be yet another good debate…

I will disprove the following topic:

TOPIC: Having bad table manners makes you a less liked person.

I will disprove this with the following case and will continue through refutation of the PRO case…

I. Bad manners can make you a better liked person or can have no effect.
I am simply going to prove this point with the following sub-points of examples that shows HOW these "bad manners" can actually make you a more liked person. If you read the topic of debate, that this is the only thing that I have to prove, it does not make you a less liked person but in fact (sometimes) makes you a MORE liked person.

A. Elbow's on the table.
I'm sorry, but if I put my elbows on the table, no one at school will suddenly think of me any less. Josh Kappler, one of my good friends, was asked the question of, "If I put my elbows on the table, will it make me a less liked person?" He responded with, "No, because no one pays attention to it."… I mean seriously, elbows on the table is a table manner that if you try to enforce OTHERS to do the same, that YOU will be the less liked person, not the one "breaking" the table manner.

B. Setting up the table right and proper use of utensils.
As I covered school in my last speech, I will now bring up family. While at home, if I set up the table with the fork on the right and the knife on the left, no one will think any less of me. This is also true at nearly ALL locations of places to eat. In fact, if I were to ALWAYS follow the table manner of properly setting and properly using my 3 forks, THEN people will begin to think of me differently. Instead of being that laid back man at school and at home, I am now that uptight "appropriate" person that always makes the conversations awkward. You all know the person at school that always follows EVERY table manner known through the past thousand years; they are the people that are thought of less to the average high school student.

C. Please and Thank You.
Please and thank you is a nice idea. I always tell the lunch ladies thank you for my meal and they think better of me than other students. BUT most kids do NOT say thank you. They do not think of them less upon the student body… they're just another kid. Josh Kappler, once again, said that, "Please and thank you is not necessary." Therefore, the thinking less upon someone does not exist (because of lack of please and thank you) in the lunch room, or in the student body itself. It also goes to home, my mom loves me whether I say please and thank you or I don't… Sure, it makes you more liked if you do, but it does not make you less liked (as the topic of debate specifies).

I reserve the right to add any more "table manners" to the debate and if my opponent would like to add to the list as well, by all means go ahead (but I'd prefer you do it in the next speech and not the last speech for obvious reasons)

II. Table manners are a thing of the past.
This argument is an increasing truth within our society. Table manners are a thing of the past. The weight of them is nearly completely gone and if you do not do any of above sub-points, ONLY in the past would you have been thought of less. As of the current age, you will NOT be thought of as a less liked person. Therefore, I urge a CON vote.

Let's move to my opponent's last speech.

To start off, your clarification seems to be quite acceptable; I at least did not see an attempt to be abusive so it sounds like a good way to view the round.

Onto your arguments…

Okay, off of your first paragraph, you talk about people walking by the table for the majority of the paragraph. I am simply going to quote YOU from your first speech… You said, "we are not talking about people that do not dine with the person in question"… So, if you say that we are NOT talking about non-diners, why do you argue non-diners will be disgusted? It goes against your own way to view this round.

Onto your quote (which covers the second half of the first paragraph as well as the last paragraph)… You talked about first impressions. I have two arguments against this…

1) First impressions are often ENTIRELY wrong…
Lemony Snicket wrote in his first book A Series of Unfortunate Events, "I don't know if you've ever noticed this, but first impressions are often entirely wrong…. Your initial opinion on just about anything may change over time." (http://home.mindspring.com...) This just proves that bad table manners will NOT lead to the final "opinion" of someone. There are more important assets to be included into an "opinion" of someone; bad table manners have hardly any effect whatsoever.

2) First impressions are not enough to prove that the people in question will be thought of any less with bad table manners.
All that my opponent has proven is that first impressions COULD have a bad effect. But I, for one, do not weigh my opinion of people from first impressions. I usually allow a length of time to make final my "opinion" of them. Also, my opinion is not based on table manners. This goes back to my contention II argument. With the new age, people's opinions of people are based on other things besides "bad manners." Bad manners have few effects on people's opinions of others and are not always a bad effect. Therefore, you must vote CON.

Thank You

P.S.--> I truly wish we would have gone against each other later but trust me when I say the match ups were done as random as possible. I look forward to your next speech!
Debate Round No. 1
littlelacroix

Pro

Sorry for the delay Luke, I've had a very busy week. I'm going to try to run down the same basic flow as you.

I. Okay, so as you phrased it yourself, you must show "...HOW these "bad manners" can actually make you a more liked person. If you read the topic of debate, that this is the only thing that I have to prove..." Although you mentioned "no effect" in your tag, you directly contradicted your argument by saying that beneficial effects is the only thing that you have to prove, and thus anyone judging this debate can vote for you if you prove that it can actually be beneficial, but not if you prove no effect.

A. I have a few arguments on this.
1) I'm sorry, but I don't know who your friend is and I also don't know when he became an expert on the topic. Don't get me wrong, he sounds like a cool guy, but I doubt that his expertise is extremely credible for this debate.
2) No one is trying to enforce this manner, rather people just are noticing it, which is the reason that people are less liked.
3) If someone is slouching over the table with their elbows on the table, it's noticeable. However, this is only a minor instance of bad manners.
4) Finally, this does not prove how bad manners can make you a better liked person and thus should be discredited in this debate.

B. The thing about silverware placement, no one knows today how it really goes. It isn't even considered manners anymore. Elbows on table, please and thank you, these are still used in society today. Fewer and fewer places use three forks and five spoons or whatever; the majority of places either use one fork, spoon and knife wrapped up in a napkin or even plastic utensils in a plastic wrapper. But make sure that when they bring you them to say "thank you." :-)

C. I'm not sure if you've ever worked in the service industry, but I have. When someone comes up to me and asks for two packets of BBQ (I'm not sure if you know that I work at McDonalds), I always like the customers that say please and thank you versus the person that demands BBQ then walks off without so much as a thank you. It's completely inconsiderate and I'm sure that any of my coworkers would agree. We have hundreds of people come in and order but a simple please and thank you is noticeable and does affect a person's opinion of you. Furthermore, whenever anyone I know comes in and orders from me, why do you think they always say please and thank you? They say it because they know that it is polite and that they don't want to be thought less of by even a McDonalds employee.

*Just a quick note, I did mention a few manners in my last speech that still have gone unrefuted by my opponent, but if you still wish to argue them, I said, "just a few examples [of manners] being burping, blowing bubbles in drinks, sloppy/childish demeanor, devouring food like a pig, talking with a mouth full of food..." I would, however, like to add one more to this debate, playing with food. It is completely rude and makes people dislike you a lot. I'm not using her as an expert rather a witness, but Grace Gill told me about a food fight that she was in during her freshman year. She said, "I know the guy who started it. It was Cory Cheever. That night, I had to spend five hours trying to get the dried macaroni out of my hair. I wasn't too happy with him after that! It all started with him, a glob of macaroni and a spoon when he was bored." Now I know that this is a large list to refute in your next speech, but I hope that you can address most of these as they will be crucial in my final speech and as a means for viewing the round.

II. Only some of the table manners are a thing of the past, for example, utensil placement. However, not everything is in the past, you said it yourself when you mentioned that you still say please and thank you to the lunch lady. It really does make it better when you are polite. I'll give you that some manners carry less weight than others, for example elbows on the table. But when you are sitting down at a nice family dinner, even at a place like Applebees, do you want to hear someone burp before devouring their entire plate in a single bite? I don't think so. There are still such things as table manners in society today, the only reason you don't realize it is because most people still have the ability to act appropriately at the dinner table.

Now moving on to my original speech.

I'm glad that we see eye to eye on the clarifications, I don't like to start off abusing my opponent right off the bat, I save that for later... just kidding. I'm going to try and organize this part of the speech.

I. I can assure you on this first argument that I am not contradicting myself Mr. Cumbee. Just because people are walking by doesn't mean they aren't considered non-diners. If they are in the same dining establishment, they are considered diners as well. Furthermore, you would be contradicting yourself by saying this as you believe that the lunch ladies deserve a please and thank you, as mentioned in your I.C. point. If they do not require a please and thank you in this debate, then you my friend are way off topic yourself. They are a part of your dining experience and thus must be considered as such. However, this too is still relevant as they are in the cafeteria, the same dining establishment as yourself.

II. On this argument, I'm pretty sure it is a mood point on to whether or not your first impression is your last as we both have quotes in favor of our side. However, I want you to look once again to my example of a first date. If you go out with a girl who burps, pigs out on the food and talks with a mouth-full of food, would you go out with her again? Probably not, unless you are into that kinda thing.

III. First of all, you sound like a real LDer when you bring up the COULD argument. Secondly, if you look back to my last argument, if you meet a person and they act completely impolite, it's doubtful that you will see them much more. The only reason that people even form relationships today is because the majority of people still have a pretty basic knowledge of manners.

As you can see, manners, especially at the table, are relevant in today's society, whether they can carry more or less weight than others. However, without even a basic knowledge of manners, no relationships would ever be formed. First impressions are crucial because if you don't make a good impression, they won't like you in the first place and later meetings wouldn't exist. I know that I wouldn't want to meet a person again if they would burp constantly, talk with their mouth full of food and pigging out. As a matter of fact, I would probably lose my appetite.

I await your response Mr. Cumbee and have a good weekend.
Johnicle

Con

I was a little worried that you wouldn't get to post. But it's a good thing you did so this debate can continue… Good luck with your final speech.

Beginning with an overview…

My opponent has only shown how good manners are a good idea. He has shown how he would like a please or thank you, but has not shown how if he did not get a please or thank you, that he would think of them ANY less. We agree that good manners are a good idea but if you happen to have bad manners, it doesn't make you automatically less liked. Now days, everyone at school puts their elbows on the table. If someone talks with their mouth open, the only thing I don't like is the bad manner, not the person. If I saw you chew with your mouth open at a debate tournament, I would still consider you a good guy. If I saw my mom fail to say thank you to the person at McDonald's, I wouldn't judge her to be any less of a person. Sometimes people forget or simply weren't taught to do so. A bad manner does NOT make a bad person.

Onto direct refutation

I.--> He talks about "no effect" not meaning anything… but he is wrong. If there is no effect from bad manners, it does NOT make you less liked, therefore being con. What you will see in this resolution is that when there are made table manners, it does not automatically make you less liked which yet has to be proven by pro. For example, in my opponent's first and second speech, he did not say thank you… BUT, I do not think of him any less at all. You see, he may not consider that to be a "manner", but I may. Since I understand people's differences in what they think is proper, I do not expect any one else to do what I consider to be good mannered. It's nice if someone else has good manners, but it has no effect on my thought of the person.

A1--> What do you think it takes to be an expert on this debate? This debate IS about the opinions of the common citizen (such as my friend). He agrees with me that they are a good idea, but if someone doesn't do them, it doesn't make your opinion of them any worse.

A2 You're right, people aren't enforcing this manner. You know there isn't a set list of table manners which means that people may not have the same idea of table manners. Our old foreign exchange student from Switzerland thought us Americans look like pigs with some of the things we eat and how we eat them. But that had no effect on how he thought of us. He understood that what goes on in his country may not go on in our country.

A3 Again, the elbows on the table may be EXTREMELY rude to someone. But in general, it is not going to lessen the way they like you. It may lead to them liking you less, but it will NOT be the reason they don't like you. AND for CERTAIN, not everyone will change their opinion of you… cross-apply the examples of me, my friend, and our foreign exchange student. With that, you will see that it will NOT make you a less liked person.

B Actually, just a few weekends ago we used proper settings at my Grandma's house… Me and my cousins were all making jokes about it and in result, no one thought of anyone any less. In fact, we had fun, our friendships actually got better. And as far as you saying that no one knows how to do that. I learned in school… forks on left… spoon and knife on right… plate with an inch of space in-between the edge of the table and the edge of the plate (as well as the utensils)… generally, you go from the left to the right with the utensils… cup/glass in upper-right hand corner with a special little plate under that… If you don't follow that, I don't think of you any differently…

C Well, although I don't work at McDonald's, I do work at Kmart… And although I do like an occasional thank you, I don't expect it. I think better of the people that say thanks, but I don't think worse of someone who doesn't, to me, they are just another customer… average if you will. If you have a customer at McDonald's and they don't say thank you, do you really think they are evil? Furthermore, why did you start this debate with the parameters if you're not going to follow them… you said in round 1 that, "we are not talking about people that do not dine with the person in question"… That specifically breaks your own parameter…

* Although you may have mentioned some proper manners, you have yet to appropriately show what the bad manner is and HOW it makes you less liked as the resolution asks…

II… you said, "It really does make it better when you are polite."… BUT it doesn't make you worse when you DON'T… it only makes you average
----you also said, "do you want to hear someone burp before devouring their entire plate in a single bite?"… well, I don't really mind but even if I did, it wouldn't have an effect on me… my cousins ALWAYS do that stuff but it has no effect on how any of my family members view them…

Your case

I Although if you look WORD FOR WORD you contradict yourself, I have already attacked that… so I'll continue with saying that yes, the lunch ladies are due a thank you… there is no debate there… but where the debate IS, your not. You have yet to prove that the lunch ladies think of people less when you fail to say thank you. Let's just say that every student has rating of 50 out of 100 for likeness to start out with (from the lunch ladies). If I say thank you, let's just say that my rating goes up to 60. Table manners helped people to like me more… BUT as the average student goes through the line, they do not say thank you. As I stated before, VERY FEW kids say thank you, so is there any reason for them to think of them less if what their doing is the same as everyone else…?

II Your first impression arguments has two big flaws… 1) You assume that the first impression is the final impression… My thought of someone changes any way… 2) People try MUCH harder to make a good impression, therefore, the first impression will probably be a good impression and if it isn't, there is inevitably other "things" that make him a less liked person.

III I sound like an LDer… haha… thanks for the compliment… wait James…you sound like a policy debater… no… have you turned to the dark side??????? Haha, just kidding……. But your logic in "III" is out there to say the least. People form relationships because of manners? People form relationships because they like each other, manners help but do NOT hinder the way people like each other. You big argument about why people like each other less has a lot to do with relationships but NOTHING to do with friends and family… I challenge you to apply it to these two entities as well… AND yes, I do continue "seeing" people if they have bad manners…

In the end, manners have a good effect when followed but have no bad effect when not applied. Manners are so variant that it's impossible to even write up a list specific "table manners" so you can't even tell when to "like someone less." There simply isn't enough content on pro to prove that bad manners WILL make someone think of you less… Therefore, I urge a CON vote…

I await your next speech… (have a nice April!)
Debate Round No. 2
littlelacroix

Pro

Okay, so I just need to get a couple things off my back. First of all, what is up with the ""? Curiosity just got the better of me. Also, you make several points throughout your entire speech if I were bad mannered, you wouldn't think less of me. Well of course, that's cause I'm amazing and you know this. However, the reason that everyone thinks I'm amazing is because I know my manners, most of the time. The reason why people don't think less of me is because I make a good first impression with my manners. I wouldn't be nearly as liked if I didn't have decent manners, which I will get to again later in my speech. Now I'll move on to the debate at hand.

On the overview, I will completely refute this in my speech and use crystallization to wrap things up at the end.

I. Whether the topic of the debate says it or not, you said directly that you only need to prove that bad manners are beneficial to people's opinions of a person; therefore any instances of no effect must be discredited in this debate unless my opponent would like to contradict himself and admit that, for a change, he is wrong. I will not make this a huge part of this debate, but I just wanted it on the record that the great Luke Cumbee isn't sure in his own side of the debate and thus is going back on his own argument.

A1. Okay, I'll give you that this debate is about the opinion of the common citizen, but where is the crucial argument here? You have one, I'm assuming, teenage boy as your key witness. It is obvious that women are more mature and prone to manners than most guys (unlike two upstanding gentlemen similar to ourselves), and yet you contend that his opinion wins your case for you? I'm sorry Mr. Cumbee, but I still fail to see the credibility of your witness.
*I love how I'm turning this into a court case.

A2. On this, I only have a brief argument. You're right, there is no set list of manners to enforce, that is why some manners carry more and less weight than others, but there are manners that are universal. If people talk with food in their mouths, that is considered a bad manner by the majority of the population.

A3. I apologize Luke, but this argument is really evasive. Manners are manners and the reactions of them are all the same; for example, if a person is to cut in front of you in a line, pushing you aside, would you still be like, "I haven't met that gentleman yet and I bet he's an upstanding guy." I would highly doubt that that would be your reaction. I bet you would be saying to yourself, "what a jerk!" It's rude, it's impolite and it's in bad manners. If someone is rude, you think less of them, end of story. I also just want to note something. You said it yourself that good manners may make you a better liked person, but I will refute that argument that they may have no effect.

B. Well, you may have actually used proper utensil setting, but I haven't since... okay, so I can't remember, but you get the point. I dare you to name one restaurant that actually uses proper settings. Burger King, McDonalds, Applebees, Red Lobsters, Chili's... (I can go on forever), all of whom wrap their utensils in napkins. Society has changed and thus it carries less weight than most.

C. Alright, not to sound rude (although looking back, some of what I've said could be taken as rude comments, sorry), but I set these parameters to be appropriate for this debate and I have been following them, as have you, unless you wish to contradict yourself with the lunch ladies. Any people that work or participate in your dining experience are considered in this debate. I said that actions specifically at the dinner table and diners, if a person is working at a dining establishment, they are considers to be dining; dine being the base word of every single argument. The only reason I set this parameter, although I doubt that you would've gone there, was to avoid people disliking a person even though they have never been around them during dinner time. Furthermore, as you are using the lunch ladies in one of your arguments, you would be contradicting my supposed contradiction, and thus we would both be contradicting ourselves. I've never used that word so many times in such a little space.

*Just out of curiosity, did you avoid my bad manners because you are unable to refute them. You chose three manners (elbows on table, place settings and "pleases and thank you's") that you actually had arguments for, but refuse to refute these? All of what I have given you are examples of bad manners, and, to a certain degree, you have agreed to them. The fact that you continue to argue some of these points later on (mouth full of food, burping, etc.), you must agree that they are bad manners. So I ask you, why aren't these being refuted?

I. I'm just going to go back to my McDonalds argument here. I just got off from work about three hours ago and I was thinking about this debate all day. There were two instances that struck me. 1) I was working the front counter and I saw this little girl come up to the counter. I asked her, "Can I get you something?" She replied, "Yeah, I need two packets of Ketchup." I was kind of shocked that she didn't say please but gave it to her and she walked away without a simple thank you. I thought, "You're welcome you little brat." I hope no one thinks less of me for this, but she said it with a snooty little attitude and it really shocked me. A simple thank you, even with that attitude, would've made her seem a little better; but since her manners were bad, I did think less of her. 2) I was trying to help out and get the cars in my drive thru moving, the person next to me was handing bags of food out of the window, suddenly, my coworker turned to me and said, "Did you see that?" -- "No, what?" -- "That was one of the most rude people I have ever seen. He was talking on his phone, wouldn't even look at me, grabbed his food and drove off!" My coworker was appalled at this one random gentleman and, if he is seen in the future, I doubt that he would change much, if any. These are two instances of people with poor manners that have been thought less of by two common citizens and I'm sure there are many more across the country and the world.

II. I'll give you your first point, but that is because of your second point. The majority of people in this country attempt to make a good first impression and work hard at it, because they know that bad manners may leave a bad impression. This is a little away from the food world, but if a person has bad manners at a job interview or date, they will most likely not be called back by the employer or date. The reason why first impressions are usually not final impressions is because manners are crucial to a first impression and most people know this. The reason why you and I are now friends is because I didn't walk up to you, with a mouth full of food, demanding a pencil or something ridiculous. We had a debate round together, I was polite and asked if my mom could watch our round and vice-versa for your dad. Manners are everything.

III. Please cross-apply my last argument. (Due to character limits, I can't cover the excess of this argument.)

Just to wrap up, I've given three examples (two from McDonalds and don't forget Grace and the food fight) that completely prove my side of the debate. Furthermore, my opponent has only shown you that it MAY have no effect, not to mention that he has yet to prove that it may be beneficial to have bad manners, and nothing more. PRO has given clear logic, several examples and, most importantly, brought more key points to the table than my opponent. All the con has been doing is picking and choosing his arguments to win this debate and therefore there must only be a PRO vote in this debate.

I'm anxious for your reply and final argument and Good Luck in the rest of the tournament. This has been quit an interesting debate. Thank U
Johnicle

Con

(Intro)>>> Perhaps you are amazing, but being amazing doesn't necessarily mean you understand table manners and their influence on society. Some of the things you said in the last speech could be seen as "rude"… but it actually makes me like you more… Having bad table manners can be funny, thus making you more popular and more liked…

I.>>> Instances of no effect MUST continue to stand. If after this round, "no effect" was proven, who would the judge vote for? It's kind of like this: If the point in the round is to prove what a certain number is (out of 5) and you have to split it down the middle (assuming that there isn't any decimals)… Pro has to prove it is either 1 or 2 while con has to prove it is 3, 4, or 5… So in this instance, all that I have to prove is that table manners don't make you less liked, they either have no effect or a positive effect… both of which HAVE been proven within this debate round (which I'll get to in my voters)…

A1.>>> You have challenged the credibility of my "witness" (haha)… SO… I decided to actually ask the lunch lady that I thank nearly every day what she thought… I asked her, "Do you think less of people who don't say thank you"? She replied with, "Well… I don't think less of the ones that don't but I do think better of the ones that do."… This is EXACTLY what I've been saying this entire time over and over again. Having good (table) manners makes you more liked, but failing to do so have NO poor effects on your character whatsoever. All my opponent has proven is that manners COULD have an poor effect… specifically, he says it "might"… but nowhere does he say it will such as the resolution asks… (plus the common citizen still stands since that is who we are talking about)

A2.>>> Here, you have to see that manners are so foggy that you can not enforce them… My opponent contends that some manners have more weight than others but we aren't debating some, we're debating ALL. Again, he has yet to prove which ones have more weight and which ones make you less liked.

A3.>>> When someone cuts in front of you in line, what is it that you don't like… the person, or the act of cutting in line? This argument simply proves that bad manners themselves are looked down upon, not the person. My friends and my friends of friends ALL cut in front of each other in the lunch line. Single file has NEVER existed. Them doing that frustrates me, but does not make me think less about them…

B.>>> Thank you Mr. LaCroix……. times… they are a changin'… NO MORE, do people care if your utensils are in the right spot… NO MORE do people care if you let out a burp (it's usually pretty funny)… NO MORE do people force you to say thank you… all of these things are GREAT ideas but don't make you a bad person if you don't live up to these "non-existing" rules.

C.>>> All that you said is true… but if you look back to your Rnd 2 argument, you never said that you think less of them if they don't say thank you… you said it's nice, but you never said that you hated them if they don't. These days, people don't judge other people simply by their manners. Sadly, it's usually the way they look.

*>>> I'm sorry but I can't resist… Just out of curiosity, did you just skip showing my HOW your bad manners make people less liked? Judge(s), think about it… when someone has a bad manner, is it the bad manner you dislike, or the person?

I.>>> Ok… here's the problem with the whole first impression argument… 1) How can you think less of someone if you don't even know who they are? First impressions don't show you who that person is, so how can you like them less? Also, you never liked that person to begin with, so if you don't like that person, you simply don't like them, not because of their bad manners. Also, that man was on the phone, if he wasn't on the phone, he very well could have been a nice person. SO, it's not the person who is being less liked, but once again, the bad manner. And the little girl… her attitude makes her less liked, not her not saying please/thank you… I'm sure you had other people in McDonalds that day that didn't say please/thank you… the only reason you brought her up was because of the attitude… The bad manners didn't help, but it also didn't make things worse.

II.>>> haha… this argument made me laugh… If you would have walked into our first round with food in your mouth, I would have died with laughter… I'd remember you as that funny guy with food in his mouth. But of course, we thought better of each other because of our respect of asking each other if our parents could watch our round (in that really small room too)… We are friends, but if we wouldn't have done that, we very well could have still been friends. The worse that would have happened would have been us not being friends. BUT we wouldn't think less about each other because of that. It would have just been another debate round. Again, with the thinking better of someone with manners and having no effect (or a positive effect) if someone has bad manners… That is what has been proven within this debate round and I urge the voter(s) to see that.

Thank you Mr. LaCroix for this great debate round. Only debaters can have a 6,500+ word debate about table manners and their effect on people's opinion. I'm sure we will debate again, it just seems that way… Until then, see you at Student Congress!
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by lumpyballsIV 8 years ago
lumpyballsIV
I actually have a cousin that eats with his mouth open and has horrible table manners when it comes to it. As annoying and sickening as it is to watch him eat, for me it doesnt make him a less likable person, you forget about it after dinners over anyway.
Posted by zakkuchan 8 years ago
zakkuchan
I must agree with Haden. tl;dr. :P
Posted by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
Unfortunately, many people still vote on tl;dr topics. Glad you don't.
Posted by HadenQuinlan 8 years ago
HadenQuinlan
I don't want to do this, but I must:

tl;dr

I'm sorry, but this is such a silly topic to debate about =/

If I get around to it, I'll vote, however I really am not interested whatsoever in table manners.
Posted by littlelacroix 8 years ago
littlelacroix
I thought that it'd be pretty cool to add some humor to the debate. Not to mention that's my true personality. James LaCroix - 100% Cockiness (If that's even a word). But I hope to see you at StudCo, aren't you anxious for the long drive to Rapid City? Lol. That's true payback for all the trips I've made across the state to come to your guys' tournament. I'm hoping to do really well at StudCo. I don't know if you've heard, but for the past like 15 years Stevens has sent somebody to Nationals, and if I don't qual in StudCo (since the rest of my team is pessimistic about their own abilities), we break the record this year. It sucks!
Posted by Johnicle 8 years ago
Johnicle
OOPS... the "&#61664" is supposed to be an arrow... I do my rebuttals in Word most of the time so I just copy and paste it over and the arrow thing it makes in word didn't want to paste to what it's supposed to be... oh well... and the whole cocky thing made me laugh... I guess its pay back from the Mundt round 1... and I'm not in the Senate, I'm in one of the houses
Posted by littlelacroix 8 years ago
littlelacroix
Sorry I couldn't fit a "Thank You" in there, I completely ran out of space. I've never spoken that much before. Oh, and I hope I didn't sound too cocky in my last speech, but I thought that you'd like it :-)

PS - Yeah, I'll be at State StudCo, and I'm in the Senate. You?
Posted by Johnicle 8 years ago
Johnicle
Hey James, are you going to state stud co?
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