The Instigator
Knuckles
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
vmpire321
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Health Care is Unconstitutional

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
vmpire321
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/14/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,600 times Debate No: 19868
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (4)

 

Knuckles

Pro

I personally believe that President Barack Obama's Health Care Bill is unconstitutional. Why? Because you are making people getting something that they may not want. Actually statistics prove that more than 50% of Americans do not want anything to do with Obama's Health Care Bill. I don't want anything to do with it either. It has proven that it does not work. Look at France, and Sweden. Look at the EU position right now. They are going bankrupt, and some people want us to bail them out when we can barely bail ourselves out.
vmpire321

Con

Hmm. Apparently...The debate is going to go similarly to this:
Round 1: Arguments
Round 2: Rebuttals
Round 3: Rebuttals
Round 4: Rebuttals
Round 5: Summary

I believe that when PRO mentions 'health care', he is refering to Obama's Health Care Plan, aka Obamacare. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Unconstitutional is "not in accordance with a political constitution, esp. the US Constitution, or with procedural rules."

==Arguments==

1) The constitutionality of Patient Protection and Affordable Care act (PPACA/Obamacare) has been supported by three out of four appellate courts.
http://articles.latimes.com...
http://online.wsj.com...

2) Looking at historic indicators, we can see that Obama's health care plan is heading in a positive direction.
Patrick Whelan, M.D, Ph.D., practicing rheumatologist and director of Catholic Democrats

And I am at the end of my character limit...Rebuttals next round :D
Debate Round No. 1
Knuckles

Pro

The reason it is unconstitutional is because it infringes upon the rights of others. If someone does not want it, it should not be forced on them. But also, in case you haven't realized, this is socialism. Socialism is when the government takes care of life necessities. Health care is one of them since most of us if we didn't have it would go bankrupt. So everyone that was saying Obama is a Socialist, is 100% correct. Like Al Gore would say, "it's an inconvenient truth!"
vmpire321

Con

PRO claims that just because some people are against Obama's plan, it should not be allowed.
1) If some psychotic murderers believe that they should be out of prison, should we listen to their demands?'

PRO mentions that some people do not wish to have this bill.
1)The goal of this bill is to insure as many people as possible. 45,000 people die every year in the United States due to being uninsured. http://www.cbsnews.com...


PRO claims that "Socialism is when the government takes care of life necessities."
1) Actually, socialism is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods." http://www.merriam-webster.com...
2) By making this argument, PRO concedes that obamacare is necessary.
3) This protects human life, and everyone has the right to live in America.


==DROPPED==
1) 3/4 appellate courts support the bill.

NO ROOM
Debate Round No. 2
Knuckles

Pro

You just made my argument even stronger. You proved that I was right about Socialism, if you couldn't tell, and you misinturpreted me I specificly said, polls show that more than 50% of Americans do not wan health care reform. Or at least Obama's reform. Obama may be a Harvard grad, but he does not have leadership skills.
vmpire321

Con

PRO claims that I supported him
1) He doesn't explain why, unless if he means that I dropped his "polls argument".

PRO says that I didn't mention anything about his "polls" argument.
1) There is no evidence provided for this.
2) According to CNN, 37% support the bill and 13% want it to go even further. This adds up to around 50% who support the bill.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...


==Dropped==
1) Once again, he didn't respond to the fact that 3/4 appellate courts support the bill.
2) Looking at round 1, it seems that he also dropped the argument that we can see that Obama's health care plan is heading in a positive direction, through historic indicators.

==Renforcing My Arguments==
1) One of the jobs of our government is to provide everyone the right to life. We save around 45000 people a year with this bill.

==New Arguments==

1) Many unfair health insurance practices are no longer allowed. (Pre-existing conditions)

Out of Room
Debate Round No. 3
Knuckles

Pro

Your argument does not make any sense. Seriously, you are extremely difficult to follow, and you are not getting your point across. Please wrote normally. Most American's do not want this to go through. With the Stats it is a matter of who you believe, Fox News (Me), or CNN (you). The appellate court is not the Supreme Court witch is most likely going to rule it unconstitutional.
vmpire321

Con

PRO claims that I am hard to understand.
1) I don't have much to say about this. This is simply his opinion, nothing more.
(I am writing normally...at least in a DDO-friendly way)

PRO says that most Americans appose the bill.
1) I don't know about PRO, but I'm pretty sure a 50-50 split is not a 'majority'. I provided a direct link to CNN's polls, and it clearly shows that 13% of Americans believe that Obamacare should be extended, and 37% support it. This adds up to 50%.

PRO mentions that his source is "Fox News".
1) He didn't provide any link to show why this statistic is actually from Fox News.

PRO claims that an appellate court is not the Supreme Court, which is most likely to rule it unconstitutional.
1) Appellate courts are somewhat in the middle of court rankings. http://en.wikipedia.org...) Appellate courts are the best method of prediction currently.
3) He doesn't explain why the Supreme Court will rule Obamacare unconstitutional
In conclusion, my arguments still stand.
Debate Round No. 4
Knuckles

Pro

Well I mean this is more or so a matter of opinion. But I couldn't find the actual data because I saw it on TV. I personally believe it is unconstitutional because I don't want it, therefore it infringes my rights.
vmpire321

Con

vmpire321 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
Yeah, I sometimes get frustrated at kyro's votes because they make absolutely no sense, lol. Here is my RFD, anyways.

Pro gets conduct because of Con's FF. Con gets sources because he posted some, and arguments, too. Pro dropped some of Con's arguments, and some of Pro's arguments were based off his claim only whereas Con actually provided evidence. Thus, arguments goes to Con as well. Lastly, Con gets S&G, because Pro had numerous mistakes that would take a while for me to point out. Besides, he said Con was "hard to follow", but I think Con was perfectly understandable, lol.

All in all, it was a short debate. That's just the way I like it when you're talking about politics :D
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
Hmm. "convincing arguments' gives you 3 points...

So he subtracted 1 point, and decided to give me 2 points (Conduct + S/G) ?
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
kyro you gave him conduct yet he FF'd lol
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
WOW I DIDN"T MEAN TO FORFEIT.. WTf
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
>.<' It's okay.
Posted by Knuckles 5 years ago
Knuckles
Haha I had a typo in my most recent statement, I meant to say write normall lol! XD
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
I'll take this.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
Knucklesvmpire321Tied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: I disagreed, but Con clearly won. He posted good arguments, and Pro didn't really refute them. Conduct though for the FF.
Vote Placed by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
Knucklesvmpire321Tied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.
Vote Placed by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
Knucklesvmpire321Tied
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Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: Even though Vmpire Forfited, I think I was more convinced by him.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Knucklesvmpire321Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: although pro had short arguments he somehow managed to tie it. he gets conduct for the FF. But other than that it looks even.