The Instigator
griffinisright
Pro (for)
Losing
34 Points
The Contender
brian_eggleston
Con (against)
Winning
35 Points

Health care is NOT a right!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/15/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,285 times Debate No: 3637
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (6)
Votes (20)

 

griffinisright

Pro

"Education is favorable to liberty. Freedom can only exist in a society of knowledge. Without learning men are incapable of knowing their rights. And where learning is confined to a few people, liberty can neither be equal nor universal" -Benjamin Rush 1786

Based on this quotation it is abundantly clear to me that it is important for every single American to know what their rights are so that they can protect their freedom and their personal liberties as Americans. Part of being able to decipher what your rights is knowing by definition what a right is and knowing there is a HUGE difference between rights and privileges. This is ware I see is great deal of misunderstanding in this country. I often hear people ranting about how they have the right to do certain things. You have heard these people, "I have the right to do this!", "I have the right to do that!", "You don't have the right..." you get the picture. One of the biggest arguments that I hear especially in the 08 election is, "I have the right to health care." or "Everyone has the right or should have the right to free health care." Only one problem with this statement... Are you ready for it?HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT! It is a privilege!

In this debate I wish to correct my opponents wrongful misunderstanding and explain to my readers the difference between rights and privileges so that in turn they can protect their rights and in doing protect and preserve our liberties for us and our children.

NOTE: This IS NOT a debate on weather or not socialized medicine or nationalised health care is a good thing or not! This is a debate only on deciphering weather it is a right or a privilege. So if you think you are going to accept this debate do not ramble on about how "Wonderful it is" or how we should all hold hands and sing Kumbaya. I will not waist my time with another one of those debates. I have already debated if it is or isn't a good idea for this country. This debate is different. Your job should you accept is to prove to me and the voters that health care IS A RIGHT!
brian_eggleston

Con

I would contend that free healthcare is a privilege that all citizens of any civilised country have a right to access and, therefore, your argument represents something of a false dichotomy.

Similarly, the same principle can be extended to education, national security, policing, public highways and the many other services the nation provides for all members of society, regardless of the individual's ability to pay, either directly or indirectly through their taxes.

In a modern democracy, everybody has the right to a free vote, yet in less enlightened times it was considered a privilege that should only be extended to senior clerics and the landed gentry.
Debate Round No. 1
griffinisright

Pro

"I would contend that free health care is a privilege" That is how you opened your argument and if you drop the "free" word, I would agree with you there 100%. Health care is a privilege. Period.

Sadly our agreement stops there as you claim, "(Your) argument represents something of a false dichotomy." I would like it if you seem room for error in my arguement please show me where because I dont...

I am not going to address, "education, national security, policing, public highways and..." Frankly because it is off topic. However my goal in this debate is to leave you with a black and white picture that you can refer back to when ever you have a dispute with anyone else regarding who has the right.

"In a modern democracy, everybody has the right to..." The rest of this statement proves we live in, "less enlightened times" Because we do not have a democracy in the United states, we have a Republic! "I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the united states of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands..." Did you get that? Not, and to the DEMOCRACY for which it stands. We have a republic, but that is another debate for another time. This debate is on if health care is or is not a right so first let me start off by defining what a right is...

A right is a "Power privilege, facility or demand inherent in one person and incident upon another. generally defined as power of free action. Something you have the sovereign authority to do because their is no higher authority to get permission from."

In other words there is nobody to ask. You get the final decision. That is what sovereign authority is.

You are endowed by your creator with certain unalienable rights of which are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. In other words there are some things some freedoms that God has given you that you do not have to ask anyone permission to do.

Now this definition is the exact opposite of a privilege,

A privilege is a "particular benefit or advantage enjoyed by a person, company, or class beyond the common advantages of other citizens. An exceptional or extraordinary power or exemption. A peculiar right, advantage, exemption, power, franchise, or immunity held by a person or class, not generally possessed by others. A temporary authority granted to you by someone of a higher authority."

Example: If I step outside of MY house onto MY land. I can walk around on it all day long. Do I have to ask anyone for permission? NO! Because it is owned by me! It is MY land. Seems I own the property I have a RIGHT to do anything with it I please.

Now If you lived next door to me and you owned the land around it. Now if there was a restaurant on the other side of your land and I wanted to go there to get a bite to eat, could I walk across your land to get to it? NO, I would have to get permission! It is a privilege for me to walk across your property because I don't own your land, YOU DO! You have the authority to do what ever you want with YOUR land. Now you may decide that on the weekend I can walk across your land. Then come Monday morning if you are having a bad day you may decide you don't want me walking across your land. You have the right to tell me that I can not walk across your land. You can tell me that I have to walk around if you so choose.

So walking across your land is a privilege granted to me by someone of higher authority. i.e. You, the owner of the land. That privilege can be taken away at any time. And I have no say in the matter.

But now days the government has many people convinced that we have certain privileges granted to us by the government. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! The government gets its power from "We the people!" and we the people have rights given to us from our creator! Like it or not believe in God or not, that is how it is written in the constitution!

Rights derive from property! Like in the example I can walk across MY property because I own it. I can do what ever I want as long as I won it.

You have a right to life because YOUR body is YOUR property! Even though you do have a right to eat (as long as it is YOUR food) do you have the right to walk into a restaurant and say I am hungry feed me for free? NO! Why? because it is not YOUR food it is not your property. You do not have the right to anyone elses property. That it an oxie moron.

Like wise do you have a right to free health care? NO. You cant just walk into a doctors office and say cure me for free! Do you know why? because someone has to pay the doctor because it is HIS property medical care is HIS skill. How would you like it if someone walked into your business and demanded goods or service for free?

You may say, "Well the Dr, is getting paid, so its not free."
"My question to you would be, WHO is paying the dr?"
Your only answer could be that the government pays for it. Which leads me to my last question, "Where is the government getting the money from?" Well I am so glad you asked, let me just tell you...

Someone else! Think about it, Do you have the right to someone elses property? NO, not even if the government is "giving" it to you! You only have the right to YOUR property. There fore one must conclude that you do not have a right to free health care. So next time you have a question of who has the right, ask yourself, "who owns the property?"

Well it was good debating you Brian Eggleston, good luck in you future debates.
brian_eggleston

Con

Thanks for your most interesting comments and also for your generous footnote.

I would like to reply by clarifying what I meant by "false dichotomy" - simply that a privilege can also be a right. For example, we are privileged to live in democratic countries where we have the right to free speech.

At the risk of getting further bogged down in semantics, you rightly state that the United States is a republic (a constitutional federal republic to be exact), however, I would like to point out that the US government, nevertheless, self-identifies itself as democratic (with a small "d", you will have noted). That said, I will not presume to disagree with you on the nature of the US Constitution, you have the advantage on me as I am British, not American, and I duly concede this element of the debate to you.

Furthermore, I also concur that "rights" and "privileges" in the context of property or land are completely separate and that everything in life has to be paid for, one way or another.

To illustrate this point, you wrote: "How would you like it if someone walked into your business and demanded goods or service for free?"

Of course, I wouldn't like it and I'd ‘phone the police! However, I'd be very upset if, when I called 911, I was asked to supply my credit card details in order to facilitate their attendance!

You continued: ""My question to you would be, WHO is paying the d(octo)r?" Your only answer could be that the government pays for it. Which leads me to my last question, "Where is the government getting the money from?" Well I am so glad you asked, let me just tell you... Someone else!"

Of course, the taxpayer pays. However, in a civilised society the government (on behalf of the population) may decide that it would be very desirable if those who are unable to contribute financially through their taxes, nevertheless, should have the right to take full advantage of basic public services, provided they stay on the correct side of the law, naturally.

An extreme example of what I mean might be a disabled baby abandoned on the steps of a hospital. That child will be a huge drain on public resources but most people would agree that it still has the right to be treated – I don't mean to be obtuse, but if no charity or member of the public offered to pay, the hospital managers should not be allowed to instruct the doctors to kick it into the shrubbery and leave it to die.

In conclusion, free access to healthcare may be a "privilege" but it is also a "right".

I look forward to hearing your further opinions on the matter!
Debate Round No. 2
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
THIS is the one and only purely logical and correct stance on universal healthcare: http://www.objectivistcenter.org...
Posted by adamh 9 years ago
adamh
Pro has this one in the bag. It is not the governments role to feed, clothe, medicate, or give us 'free' things. The governments only role is to keep us safe and protect our right to PURSUE happiness. The government is not supposed to give everyone happiness under the disguise of a supposed right, the government is to give us the opportunity to attain the happiness we long for.
Posted by benames75 9 years ago
benames75
I think the only way Con can win this one is by twisting facts and mincing words. For instance by saying we have a right to life so we should have a right to heath care because if we are denied treatment we will die. But that's twisting the coin, no one gets denied treatment in the US if they need treatment regardless if they can pay for it or not. They may be paying it off for the rest of their lives buy they will still get the treatment. So their "right to life" is protected and free health care is not needed. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Posted by XsamacadoX 9 years ago
XsamacadoX
regardless. good debate, you have my vote.
Posted by griffinisright 9 years ago
griffinisright
Its not a right. Period. No ifs ands or butts. Yes every human being does have the right to life but they do not have the right to FREE health care! Because Unless you own the medicine, the Hospital, the Doctor, and the band aids you do not have a right to any of it! Health care is not a right. Besides you cant own a Doctor. This is America for Gods sake, if you owned him, he would be your salve and slavery is not permitted in America any longer. Fun fact of the day: health care is not once mentioned in the bill of rights!

"(i)would like to live past 70." If you want to live that long you don't want socialized medicine! In Canada they are starting to turn down elderly patients who need serious operations in order to cut down on costs. Their logic is that, "they won't be living too much longer anyway."

NOTE: To anyone voting on this debate don't take any on my comments or anyone elses into consideration in voting. You are to be voting on the debate not the 2 cents everyone elses has or your opinion on the topic.
Posted by XsamacadoX 9 years ago
XsamacadoX
its not a right, but due to the elastic clause, everyone has the right to life liberty and propertey, and therfore they have the right to stay alive through health care. also im a self centered person who would like to live past 70.
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