The Instigator
luanism
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DebateSushii
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Health or Money, which would you choose?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/1/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 244 times Debate No: 116176
Debate Rounds (5)
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Votes (0)

 

luanism

Pro

Health is unquestionably more important than money; however, we all need them coins to survive. Am I right? Back in older civilizations, we were able to just hunt and kill to survive. Now that things are much more modernized, scavenging for resources isn't really too practical anymore. However, we can still manage a happy lifestyle by fulfilling our basic needs such as air, water, shelter and food. Other needs such as self-esteem, confidence and spirituality can be achieved without money. Yet, society has somehow wired us to associate everything with money, money, money. Everything is about money. Yes and no. Yes, because in order to find shelter and security we need a solid down payment or start up funds to pay for rent, food, and other living costs. In order to pay for transportation, clothing, and leisure things such as going out... in other words, it all costs money. But is it necessary? How much of it do we need? Do we all need to be driving Ferraris and Lamborghinis? Many of us have been bought into conforming to society's marketing and pressure tactics that we're stuck in a cycle of "wake up, make money, repeat, die" I believe that money is useless if you can't spend it with people. The mentality tied with money-making is what sets apart the saying "money is the root of all evil" vs "enough money can actually fix many of today's problems in the world such as cures for diabetes, cancer, poverty, etc." I had an English professor once tell the class about his view on money and he said: "Money can't buy you happiness. It can only rent it."
DebateSushii

Con

Money would obviously be the best go for this scenario. Money could buy you health insurance or a private doctor, but if the instance of this scenario does not allow that, there are other reasons having money over health is a better choice. In this argument, choosing money does not mean that you can't have a family or happiness in your life. Money can make your life better overall. There are some things that the average American does not want to think about when thinking of money. For example, it may be an ugly truth, but money can make most people happy. Whatever money can't buy can be obtained (the scenario allows obtaining happiness but not health). To add on, money can buy you everything in most countries of the world. However much we don't want to see or witness it, corruption rules most of the world's governments, even the United States' governments. We have huge companies, corporations and associations like ALEC and the NRA buying out most of the government. Did you know that the NRA endorsed Trump as president? Trump, being all for gun laws, was endorsed by the NRA. The NRA spent $11.4 million helping Trump's campaign, showing that they basically do own the government when it comes to the controversy over gun control. If the NRA could buy out the government, so could any rich individual. We have all heard of or played a game where you can bribe the police or major politicians into supporting your view on things. With money, you can control whatever you want. You can even set up a secret dictatorship ruling the U.S. just like what ALEC did back when Bill Clinton was president. With the prospect of near-infinite money, one could buy whatever he dreams of so health would only be a thought at the back of one's head. Money would therefore be better to have than health.
Debate Round No. 1
luanism

Pro

There was this study done at a University somewhere (I forgot where I saw this) but, it basically said that if a person makes less than $75,000 a year they're less happy. However, if they make more than that, there's no increase in degree of happiness. Which, I agree. I really don't think that it's necessary. I can understand why so many people make it a priority over everything else, and that's because of the influence of social media and social "icons" and rappers. The kind of lyrics that are entering our brains also have a heavy impact on our judgement. I'd rather own a legit business and have worked for my Lamborghini than have stoopid amounts of money and do stoopid things with it when it could be put to better use such as finding a cure to illnesses that even the government doesn't want to contribute to, like diabetes and cancer. And, I'd rather not get shot by a rival rapper or overdose on drugs you know? That's just me. Now, as for your argument on the NRA controlling the govt, and how having enough money can influence authority to take your side... that's bull. Why would you ever need that? Also, people who have that much power usually are evil. At the end of the day, I believe it all depends on your mentality like I said in my introduction. It's your mindset that separates you from being evil and indulged by materialism. (Doing whatever it takes to make that money: i.e., killing, robbing) To put this into perspective, you and I just graduated high school, got our diplomas and now on our way to chase our dreams and aspirations. You managed to get a job that you love and I didn't. Years go by, and I still don't know what I want to do with my life. I may not be able to chase my aspiration anymore due to health reasons, or motivation/dedication is lacking, whatever the case may be, I just simply am falling behind and become depressed + envious of you. I also become jealous that everyone around me are succeeding and eventually the pressure is too much that I see no other choice but to seek unconventional ways to be "successful". For whatever reason, my idea of success is to become rich and powerful so that I would get the respect I deserved for working so hard going to school for no reason. You ever hear about rappers or just people in general selling their souls? It's all mentality and ethics. Good vs Evil. Now again, I'm not saying money is evil. It's simply a mindset.
DebateSushii

Con

You have stated that my NRA government takeover is "bull." It, in fact, is not. You have stated that people with the power levels of the NRA are usually evil, which is a true statement. Communism had one flawed idea, the idea to have all money shared among citizens, but to have that money shared only by a supreme government. Once anyone in that government becomes corrupt (which a human is guaranteed to do eventually) the entire system falls to rot. You ask why the NRA would ever need to control the government. The answer is, the NRA is trying to save itself from completely being a thing of the past. Generation Z and Generation X would rather play sports or video games than hunt or go to a shooting range. The NRA discouraged these young people from playing those video games by influencing their parents to stop their children and to do that; they have to spread their message across the country, which they use politicians to do. A human's mindset will always turn "corrupt" once they have obtained enough power to do so. The only thing your mindset determines once you have control is how long before you go corrupt. Some humans never gain the political powers they need to go corrupt, so they just never do. Now there is your point on how you would want to earn your money while not making it the number one priority. In all honesty, the heartless who don't wish for love or happiness want only money, so everyone's second or third priority is to survive, and in this modern time, cash obtains survival. Happiness is easy to find nowadays (sadly through the worst forms of media ever to be on Earth). Money does then become the top priority, as it can buy you the media that make you happy, and it can help you advance further into power in life. Trump became the president of the U.S. because he had a ton of campaign money coming from the NRA, donors that were his friends, and his family businesses. With all that money, he almost bought himself the presidency. All he had to do was have a lot of money and make bold claims in solving the problems of our nation, so wouldn't it be evident that money does, in fact, give you EVERYTHING you need, even happiness considering that you can now buy media and power. Corruption is not a mindset. History has shown us through dictators and tyrannical leaders that power makes one corrupt and hungry for more. A mindset does not make us corrupt, human nature does. To conclude, corruption is no mindset. It is human nature.
Debate Round No. 2
luanism

Pro

I am astounded by your knowledge on the NRA; in all honesty, I'm quite glad that I managed to have this debate/discussion with you as it's not very often I get to come across not only intelligent, professional and civilized individuals like yourself. Anyhow, I would just like to indicate that your statement regarding the NRA and them wanting to save themselves to be conflicting to some degree. You made some points on how this generation is more inclined to playing sports and video games while, to which I'm going to assume, the NRA is against as they believe it should be about hunting and shooting rifles. Correct me if I am wrong. Before I continue, I would just like to state that I believe every ideology is equal as we're all created equal, but not every belief is right. Furthermore, I must correct your point about the human mind being bound to corruption or how corruption is human nature; corruption is not human nature. We're not born corrupt and we certainly have a choice in everything that we do. Regardless of how bad a situation is, we have a free will and a desire for peace or war but that is ultimately up to us to choose. Now of course, everyone is biologically inclined to different things such as one person may be naturally manic and prone to violence while another is naturally quiet and timid; however, depending on two huge factors can we safely say that it is unquestionably a matter of exceptional moral standards. In other words, having the right mindset regardless of how bad things get.

1. Be a positive influence
I strongly believe that in this era that we are currently living in, it is safe to say that having this kind of mindset is near impossible as everyone is in a constant rush to make money. "The get rich or die trying mentality" However, it is not impossible. Nothing is impossible. Now, I'm strongly devoted to chasing dreams and following your vision. Someone once said, "If you can envision it, nothing is impossible". I trust that by applying this belief towards sculpting good morals & values in the future upcoming generations, then the world would be a better place. To put my point into perspective, take health for example: If I'm insecure about my weight or how I look, I'm going to adopt a healthy lifestyle by going to the gym & eating right. Many other things such as waking up early and following a strict schedule such as staying busy is required to being healthy. That being said, health is much harder to maintain than money as money can be made by simply "wake up, go to work, go home, sleep, repeat." It's a mundane cycle compared to health which not only influences others around in a positive way, but will prolong and promote fitness as a lifestyle and not just a momentary thing.

2. Mindset + Action
I know this might be a repeat of what I mentioned in my earlier rounds, but I highly believe in creating a sound structure of moral standards by following through and not giving in to external pressures such as people with "high levels of power". Following in the footsteps of corrupted authority or world leaders/organization/parties puts you in the same boat as the bad people. The point is, we're created all equal but not the same as we're all given unique and special roles in this life. We have inspirational figures who played important roles in history for a reason. I can't think of any on the spot as my mind is in a rush to complete this argument, but Ghandi for example, once said, "Be the change that you wish to see in the world" or something on the lines of that. Also, many of the great Philosophers before our time and beyond that, have made their points on what life is, happiness, love, and other big life questions still unanswered until this day. I believe that some things are meant to be left a mystery because everything is for a reason. For every action, there is a reaction. For every question, correction, most, there is an answer. To solidify this point, with the combination of self-instilling/adopting sound values and following through/not giving into pressures, it is safe to say that high levels of power is unnecessary; very much as it is to say that everyone is bound to become corrupted or should follow in the footsteps of acquiring high levels of power in the form of money at least.

Ultimately, your points on how the vast majority should be striving to become powerful enough like the NRA because it's human nature is wrong. Certainly, when it comes to money as power transpires many forms; whether it be, public speaking, helping others, being kind, or simply knowing right from wrong is a form of power. It is the power of influence by action. The saying actions speak louder than words is relevant in this case because it proves to those who lack the knowledge or will power to do right, that nothing in life is impossible as long as you can envision it. Screw the NRA. You think that there are only good cops? or corrupted cops and there is not at least one exceptional officer in a force of x amount of other officers? Thus, I believe that it really only takes one person to make a difference and change the minds of ten people. For better or for worse, again, that is up to the voice of another individual... It might take a long time... or it might never happen at all... but the last thing I or anyone should ever do is give in to the belief that we have to be a certain way such as seek power to control, bla bla bla. Be like that guy, this guy, psh. It's all propaganda and media corruption like you mentioned. It's ONLY if we believe and that is the central idea of this argument: belief that money is nothing much a tool. The real weapon is our mind and physical capabilities to do good.

"We don't even know how strong we are until we are forced to bring that hidden strength forward. In times of tragedy, of war, of necessity, people do amazing things." - Isabel Allende
DebateSushii

Con

That was a great text to read, but please don't call me intelligent just yet. I haven't even entered high school, so one must know that there is time left for me to possibly lose my intelligence or to get behind others (I am actually 13 years of age as posted).
You have mentioned that my point of saying corruption is human nature is wrong. It is not. A human learns throughout life that it has to take every opportunity it can to evolve or find itself is a more wanted status. Early homo sapiens were hunter-gatherers, never farming nor staying in one play. These hunter-gatherers were gaining a better life, by gathering the materials they needed. Once agriculture was discovered, every homo sapien switched to agriculture so that they could gain another better life. Once industry appeared, the same thing happened. Now, in our modern day and age, automation has appeared, and with universal income on the way, human nature makes us adapt automation. If a human gains power, by nature, they'll try to get a better way of life. Why did early homo sapien tribes kill or dominate each other? They took over each other to gain land and food, along with slaves. With this fact, we can conclude that human nature does not care about the lives of others, as a human has his own best interests in mind. A mother, having the nature of motherhood will, of course, save their children over themselves. A human can gain enough power to find themselves in a position where they can get a better life, a life with plenty of money, the necessity of modern society. The NRA is not a non-profit, it strives to gain money. Saving itself will let it gain money. Since they already have some money to spend on extending its lifetime, the NRA will do anything to make their members and administrators have a better life, even if it has to harm people. If a human always wants a better life for itself, it will have to go corrupt in our modern age.
Debate Round No. 3
luanism

Pro

Thank you kindly. I don't think that one can simply lose intelligence unless you did a lot of drugs prematurely haha. I like how you are concerned with getting behind others as it's also another rarity that not many kids these days think of. You're actually 13? How can you prove this? Because you are relatively smart for your age. I absolutely like your point on how you said homo sapien tribes kill or dominate each other, took over each other to gain land, food and along with slaves. However, I disagree to a certain extent on domination though. (I'll briefly detail why in just a few seconds) If we can both come to an agreement that as civilizations advance, everything is modernized along with such as "fast food" / "grocery shopping" whereas back in the day, we actually had to track, hunt and skin our food for survival. Or, how, we depend heavily on technology to communicate and practically do everything/have everything we need to "survive". The means and ways of survival (living) has changed drastically, which means our way of doing things unquestionably change as well. This means, we no longer need dominate or kill each other for food anymore. That being said, the killing can stop, as well as the seek for power over one another; this also means that corruption is not evident in forms of physically harming, but in other was such as control (money) or verbal damage (bullying). There can be a better life without hurting others and this doesn't only apply to one form of hurt either... Hurt comes in many forms which I won't bother getting into as I'll leave that up to you to figure out on your own. I am slightly confused by what you said about agriculture and automation as I am not informed, but everything else seems to make sense. Gaining power doesn't necessarily mean wanting a better life. There is a great quote said in Spiderman by uncle Ben "With great power, comes great responsibility." One of the best quotes of all time if I am being honest. I will die by these words. And I'll tell you why:

Everyone is special and have their unique stories to tell which of course have their happy and unhappy moments, but what counts at the end of every wave/storm is that you overcome whatever sorrow/unlucky situation and grow from it. Find meaning and purpose. People often question what life is? But the better ideal is to question ourselves as the answers are already within us when life challenges us. That being said, I believe that even with the corruption that goes on, nobody really wants to be corrupted. We're just being tested and some of us aren't mentally strong enough to say no so we give in and do evil/wrong. Whether it be to others, or to ourselves (such as self-harm: drugs, cutting). My mom used to tell me that wrong things are usually easier to do, like stealing a candy bar. You can take it when no one is looking, but then the catch is you suffer humiliation and paranoia of getting caught. I also, believe that this goes for people who have been doing it for so long that they lose sense of touch with reality and how to feel shame. (life experiences which I won't get into but,) Basic emotions like that. Like I said, this is just an opinion and this doesn't apply to everyone as everybody's story is a tad different which is what makes us so unique. We have the strength to end corruption. What do you think? Am I right or am I wrong?

I agree that every individual has their own best interests in mind; it may be to buy a car, it could be to be better a video game, or it could simply just live their life. Many people don't have the luxury of living because they were born in a destructive environment that is only familiar with war and death and waking up to the smell of gun powder and smoke.
No matter how blurry or unclear life may be at the moment, people still choose for a "better" life whether that be to get an education or simply escape the war. That depends on everyone's own idea of "better" is. This is where the power of morals and understanding of ethics come into play as I talked about in the previous round: we eventually develop the ability to rationalize between what's right and wrong such as: would a mother let her school shooter of a son get shot by a sniper or risk the lives of many around him during this time of crisis because she loved him so much. Is it love though when selfishness and the love of others are taken away? In this case, any innocent life caught in the crossfires would be unethical and the dear son's life taken away as a consequence for his actions. Sounds fair? Like you said, a mother will save their children over themselves, but there have been so many cases of kids being left over uncontrollable drug habits, or habits in general. Or, how, between the rot of x mother and x father, the kid has no choice but to leave because he wants a "better" life and escape is the only option. My point is, you never know what anyone is capable of. Regardless, of their status. Mother, Father, Significant other. A mother can easily save herself rather than her child, or a child can simply not care whether he succeeds in life and would rather live mundanely at his own "best interest" but however, would be at the cost of his parent's unhappiness.

About the NRA being all about money. I don't disagree with you one bit as for many people, in all shapes and sizes, money is at the forefront of things. Even at the expense of others' well-being and happiness. For example, people who ask "Would you do "x for "x" amount of money" No matter how ridiculous the question, people would usually admit to doing it at the expense of sacrificing their own dignity and self-image. More now than ever, as back in the day it would be something much different such as killing for survival because it was simply a race for basic human needs: food, shelter, and water.

Now my question to you is where do you stand? Do you agree with the NRA's ideology --- achieve a better life at the expense of other people's health and well-being or do you see what I see?
DebateSushii

Con

I enjoyed your quote from Uncle Ben (we all know Stan Lee should have played him in Homecoming) and no, I do not agree with the ideology of the NRA. To prove I am 13, I can tell you that I'm entering the 8th grade in August at Avenues: The World School (located in Chelsea, NY). You say I am intelligent for my age; I am, considering that I fall under the top 0.3% of students in New York. Now, to move on:

While I was growing up, I did not entirely become conscious of the world till I was ten years of age, and in the past three years and 25 days from my 10th birthday, I have learned a few lifetime's worths about the world and the people residing on it. Discovering corruption at the young age of 11, I started to wonder whether the storybooks were false and whether money was more important than happiness. Money will never be more important than happiness, as King Midas has learned, but it is way more important than what I imagined. I remember my third-grade teacher saying, "Money is not as important as happiness, and your well being." Of course, she did not say that exactly (my memory is only SEMI-photographic) but she did say something along the lines of that. To answer your question, no, I do not agree with the NRA's ideology in dominating the United States. If the NRA even read these articles I have posted now, they would have expected me to be an adult (unless they read my age) and they would have paid me and you to delete these arguments and forget this debate ever happened. Do you want to hear something interesting? After the Stoneman Douglas High School shootings, the NRA and a gun producer named Savage Arms stopped all ads for their products. Savage Arms has only begun limited ads currently, but after the shootings, the NRA's spending on ads rose for about $11,000 daily, to almost $44,000 daily. The NRA knows it will have to do something more than endorse a president and the governor of Kentucky to save itself. The NRA has limited days, and they know it. Now, at age 13, standing at 5 feet 6 inches, I can already draw a map of how I can make my life successful. I am, "the master of my fate," to some extent if I want to quote the poem "Invictus." Being in a racist country, I can expect to face some difficulties, but if Sonia Sotomayor can become a Supreme Court justice, so can I. What I'm about to tell you is not a lie:
All through my life, I've never met a person under the age of 18 that is smarter than me. I always look for that challenge, and to my sorrow, I have never started sweating on a quiz because of the questions. I've been looking for that challenge forever until one day; I decided to take an 11th-grade level AP History class along with Cambridge Latin, AP Math, AP Science, AP Literature, and AP Writing. With all that knowledge from that one summer, I can now deem it impossible for a person my age or under to be more intelligent, but you never know. I've met kids who could do so much more if they had the chance to. I was not naturally smart, the only gift I had was an almost photographic memory. I wielded that gift to gain more knowledge than all kids I know, and know; I could rise to the top 0.01% of the student population in New York, all I need is another series of debates with children in the top 1%.

How does this connect to my argument? It doesn't. I have finally met a person who could challenge me in debating, the first challenge I have encountered. I feel like Goku, looking for someone stronger than himself to battle. The NRA might be powerful with money (AND NOT WITH HEALTH, STRESS THE MONEY!!!) but we have educated children to fight them anyways. You probably opened this debate up to the public so you can get maybe an easy victory or a debate with only one right answer, but with the nature of greed in our world, I can link many more things to this argument. The NRA is just one of my list. Communism could connect to this debate; Socialism could relate too. Capitalism is what we are currently focused on and there are other companies trying to grow their businesses. You can watch the documentary, "13th," which highlights the loopholes in the 13th Amendment, allowing slavery in America through ALEC. I am fortunate to have a ProQuest SIRS membership so that I can research more on any topic, and I know about human psychology. Money can buy health, and it can buy out other desires that sometimes allow happiness, but not always, so, therefore, money is better to have than health.
Debate Round No. 4
luanism

Pro

Before I say anything in regards to this debate, I would just like to say how happy I am that a person of your age can be so informed and knowledgeable about life, and more such as having a photographic memory; that is truly a gift from God, I believe. Never change who you are dude, because you seem like a great kid. I am 22 turning 23. I also dropped out of College, which I highly advise you not to do. However, if you end up in a situation where you have to then do it. Otherwise don't waste your time devoting your efforts into something that you'll end up regretting. Take a year off if you have to. Anyways I'm sure you're smart enough to know what to do as you can map out what you need to do to become successful/find happiness :) High-five to you man. I'm so glad to have met you. Not formally, but I feel like I have even just for a brief moment of back to back arguing on the topic of happiness essentially haha. AND YES I FEEL LIKE I HAVE MET MY RIVAL. YOU CAN BE VEGETA OR I CAN BE GOKU (or the other way around it doesn't matter haha) To comment on your aspiration on becoming top 0.01%, you can do it. I believe in you. I'm really happy that you are able to envision where you want to be and what you want to achieve as many go through life never doing so. Just remember one thing: no matter how hard life gets, it's not about how hard you hit back but how hard you get hit and keep on going/getting back up. - Stallone quote. I went through a lot myself and got to see what pathological lying looks like. Long story short, my father and I cut ties. I simply don't recognize him as a father or someone who is capable of feeling. One night, I called him down for a talk and spewed everything on the table. Talking about past issues, current problems, apologized many times and asked him to forgive me and let me know if I can change and if I can let me know what I can do so we can be a better family, etc. Over an hour past by, and until this day nothing has changed. Even in the midst of the conversation he would laugh. See? Emotionless, unable to take me seriously. Anyways, I wish to leave that in the past. Think of it as a ripped out chapter in my life. Have I gotten better? No. Do I still get angry and upset for having a life like this? Yes, but by no means do I hurt people. I've been labeled a "bad" person for quite some time now actually (a couple years tbh) and it wasn't until the beginning of 2018 that I found out an ex-colleague from High School was labeling me Schizophrenic. I won't get into it but long story short I don't know exactly what I did to deserve all this, but I have an idea; maybe it had to do with how I was growing up: selfish, arrogant, but most boys are like that so idk. One thing I know for sure is that everything happens for a reason and I won't question why anymore, but rather, what will I do from this point forward: change

At this point, I don't even want to debate anymore but I do agree with you that many other topics such as socialism and communism can be brought into this argument to bring forth more points regarding money, health and happiness but meh. I think we've said enough. We both made valid points and to be honest I kind of like your arguments better because I think my only good points were non-factual/motivational stuff. However, everything I said is based off real-life experiences that I have gone through just stated in a different way. As you mentioned how you want to be smarter, I wish to make a change in the world. Smile more. Inspire the youth of today to follow their dreams because nothing is impossible as long as you have imagination. I'm going to call this one a stalemate. Good match. Let's be friends? :)
DebateSushii

Con

Yea, sure we can be friends, it would be nice to anyways. Schizophrenic is not how I would describe you, in fact, it seems to be very inaccurate. Based on this debate, you can tell the difference between reality and fantasy. Anyways, sorry for any late responses to you or anything like that. The AP course things I'm taking just updated that I'm doing it again this summer, except instead of 10th and 11th grade AP, its college math and stuff like that. The workload is enormous until about August 15th so that I won't be answering anything early. I just read up on the generation after me (Gen Z a.k.a. iGen which is my generation and it should be yours if you were born in 1995). Gen Alpha is already about eight at the oldest, and judging from what I've seen, these kids are going to evolve from bingeing Ryan's Toy Review at 3-7, to Cartoon Network and Disney from 8-12, and then some streaming services' TV shows. Alpha is going to be 3 to 4 times more tech savvy than my generation, but will they be smarter is the question. I want to say that you are the first person that has won me in a debate (not that I've had many, probably just around 17). Your argument was great, and I only had the point of money buying prosperity standing. This debate was a well-done stalemate, as you have said, and we can see that both health and wealth are the leading factors to a good life and a life of prosperity.
Debate Round No. 5
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