The Instigator
W1ll1ph0n3
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
JaSam
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Healthcare and Education (Kindergarten - College) should be free

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
W1ll1ph0n3
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 615 times Debate No: 69233
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

W1ll1ph0n3

Pro

I would like to debate the follwing issue: Healthcare and Education (Kindergarten - College) should be free

Here are the rules:
-1st round is acceptance
-Con and I will have 72 hours to debate and 3 rounds each
-Con an I have to use reliable sources and rational arguments
-No insults
JaSam

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
W1ll1ph0n3

Pro

Hi there! First I'd like to say thank you for accepting and secondly I'd like to apologize for taking so long to post my first round:

1. Common sense
Before showing a bunch of statistics, I'd like to use some common sense:
I suppose that we both agree, that if you're sick your body won't allow you to work, and that without education, the chances that you'll find a decent job are rather slim.

Now let's consider the fact that a lot people (especially in the US) don't have enough money for healthcare and/or higher education. Finally, it should be quiet obvious that without healthcare you're gonna get sick sooner or later and that without higher education you'll have a hard time finding a job.

So, since many poor (and middle class) people can't afford the tools to work, isn't it obvious that these tools should be provided for them for free?

In this year's State of the Union address, President Obama, said: "Within a decade, 2/3 jobs will require some form of higher education"

But I also mentioned Kindergarten. I admit that it's not a tool that will help YOU find a job, but it might help your parents.
Consider the fact that most families nowadays need both parents working if they want to live. But they can't just leave their baby at home, right?

So this should (IMHO) lead to the conclusion that both healthcare and education (kindergarten to college) should be free.

Of course this would raise taxes for some people (mainly the rich), but it would be a fair redistribution from top to bottom.

2. Stats'n'facts

When comparing the healthcare systems of many industrialized nations, the US (without universal healthcare) is dead last. But when looking at nations with universal healthcare, you'll see that their the leading countries:

http://www.who.int...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

We get similar results when comparing the educational systems in the world. The US' ranking is mediocre when compared to Finland, a country that offers it's students free university and generous student loans:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the OECD pisa studies, the US' ranking is pretty low. According to the OECD and the video below, this is mainly due to the high child poverty rates in America. In fact, when comparing the US' results from wealthier schools, America is even better than Finland, but the results from poorer schools (the majority) are only comparable to the poorest OECD countries:

http://www.oecd.org...
https://www.youtube.com...

3. Anecdotes

In a discussion forum on reddit, poor people had to tell what they experienced, that a wealthier person wouldn't. Sad to say that in the "land of the free and of the brave" some people were so desperately poor that when they had a bacterial infection, they'd go and see if some farmers were willing to give them antibiotics, normally used for cattle...

https://www.tytnetwork.com...
JaSam

Con

JaSam forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
W1ll1ph0n3

Pro

Well, what can I say?
Con forfeited his round, so I can only say that I'm still in favor of free healthcare and education.
I hope that people liked the debate anyways and that they'll vote as well. Also, you can always look in the comment section. I had a small debate about the subject with another DDO user.
JaSam

Con

JaSam forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by W1ll1ph0n3 2 years ago
W1ll1ph0n3
Sorry, In my other comment I meant to say "...and NOT some rich kid"
Posted by W1ll1ph0n3 2 years ago
W1ll1ph0n3
When it comes to size of Finland, compared to the US; just consider the European average, it's higher then the American average, yet we are 500+ million people
Posted by W1ll1ph0n3 2 years ago
W1ll1ph0n3
You have to distinguish negative and positive rights:
-Rights considered negative rights may include civil and political rights such as freedom of speech, private property,freedom from violent crime, freedom of worship, habeas corpus, a fair trial, freedom from slavery.
-Rights considered positive rights, as initially proposed in 1979 by the Czech jurist Karel Vasak, may include other civil and political rights such as police protection of person and property and the right to counsel, as well as economic, social and cultural rights such as food, housing, public education, employment, national security, military, health care, social security, internet access, and a minimum standard of living.

In essence, getting married, getting your license etc. are negative rights; these are things you CAN do if you wish.
But healthcare and education are positive rights; the community you live in has the obligation to serve you these minimum necessities.

That said, making higher education free won't necessarily lower the prestige of having a degree. Just because all are admitted, doesn't mean that all will pass the exams to get those degrees. Again, with free college, the winners would be the bright students and some rich kid.
In fact this reminds me of a small story that happened in Italy (For real): the son of the "Lega Nord" party's secretary wasn't good enough to pass his exam in an Italian University (free of course), so his rich father decided to send him to a private university in Romania where he essentially bought his degree.
Posted by cwt002 2 years ago
cwt002
Just to add can your really compare Finland (almost 6 million people) and the U.S. (316 million people).
Posted by cwt002 2 years ago
cwt002
So this would make a University like Harvard the same as a regular or sub par university right. Because if there is automatic acceptance in some schools and not others the schools that do automatic acceptance will probably consist of low income students or who cannot afford the other universities. Also, professor will be paid less and probably resulting in less qualified educators. This would hurt the system as a whole.

I would argue that school already is a right. Every single person it does not matter your race, religion, background, socioeconomic status not matter when getting into a school.Also, during the questionnaire you can omit answering these questions. Just because something costs money does not mean it is not a right. People have to pay for their license, marriage license.........and these are rights
Posted by W1ll1ph0n3 2 years ago
W1ll1ph0n3
In Europe, we have many free universities with free admission. But also if we don't include automatic acceptance, universities would then choose the best students and not the wealthiest.
Still, I prefer college to be free with automatic acceptance. I mean you don't test toddlers to see if they're smart enough for grade school, and you don't test students to be accepted in High School. So why make it more difficult for students to reach college? I mean education should be a human right, not a privilege.
Posted by W1ll1ph0n3 2 years ago
W1ll1ph0n3
In Europe, we have many free universities with free admission. But also if we don't include automatic acceptance, universities would then choose the best students and not the wealthiest.
Still, I prefer college to be free with automatic acceptance. I mean you don't test toddlers to see if they're smart enough for grade school, and you don't test students to be accepted in High School. So why make it more difficult for students to reach college? I mean education should be a human right, not a privilege.
Posted by cwt002 2 years ago
cwt002
In fact it may be more difficult to get into a college if it completely free......unless pro is suggesting automatic acceptance too, which would be a terrible idea
Posted by cwt002 2 years ago
cwt002
Even if college were free, it would not equal automatic admittance. Colleges could still deny
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
W1ll1ph0n3JaSamTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture