The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
CosmoJarvis
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Hell, Who will go there, and Why?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 828 times Debate No: 98908
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (30)
Votes (0)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Hell - believed by the masses to be a place created by active imaginations to scare children, is reputed to be a place of torment and suffering. It exists in the bowels of the earth and is an abode for the unsaved to suffer after death while they await the final judgement upon the earth in the what is believed not to distant future. It has only one requirement for admission, but once you check in you can never check out.

Merriam-Webster Definition of hell "a nether world in which the dead continue to exist :" hades (2) :" the nether realm of the devil and the demons in which the damned suffer everlasting punishment.I removed the rest that did not pertain to the PLACE called Hell, hades, Gehenna.

The discussion will be rather open. No need for acceptance, one may simply begin. There is equal evidence that Hell actually exist as there is that evolutionary beginnings exist. One wonders "Why" a soul would dare such a fate with the indifference of a chain letter? We will explore this.
CosmoJarvis

Con

I shall use this round as an acceptance round. I am glad to have this opportunity to debate against Pro.

Pro's responsibility is to prove that hell exists. My arguments will primarily consist of rebuttals to Pro's evidence, but I will include some arguments of my own.

Good luck, and may the odds be ever in your favor...
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

How to begin is simple enough, there exist to types of people in this world, sadly there is no third. The unsaved and the saved. This article is about the unsaved, those whom have chosen, chosen mind you, to disregard the claims of the others. These are those whom for personal reasons have chosen to believe that there exist no God, no Life beyond physical death, no rewards nor punishments with which to contend.

These are them which, at least at the present time choose to find out after death, and WHEN there is no hope of correction. To these is lost all possibilities of hope of eternal life with their creator, in their destiny is one of eternal sufferings throughout eternity. To the other side this is madness, still, to each one is granted the right of free will. No souls on earth shall be required to , nor be dragged into abiding by the will of their creator. The creator has made all options known, all abilities to find Him, plainly obvious, and for this cause pronounces, " so that men are without excuse" as defined in Romans chapter 1.

Although science has proven evolution a lie ...... yeah, yeah I know: BUT until one of you can NAME the living, breathing, crawling, flying, animal that WAS created from evolutions bacteria ..... then it's a bust because as all of you KNOW, there is not a single, bacteria that has EVER become an air breathing animal. So what the scientist unknowingly proved was that life COULD NOT have EVOLVED from any bacteria, microbe etc ... blah, blah, blah. Onward!

What is really surprising is that it never occurred to me to actually LOOK at the results of each test. It literally took God to point out too me that no experiments successful created a living breath animal! Best man could do was make microscopic things, which exist ONLY in the microscopic world. So evolution she be outta there! To bad so sad. Course you could adopt the saying of a debate person name of ? Not sure I can put his name, so let's just say it begins with stupid who states " absence of existence, is existence of absence" yeah he really subscribes to that, yep I was shocked too? The lengths that people will go huh?

But man HAS no soul goes the saying ...... this is another way of saying of the numerous ghost sightings caught on film, pictures, witnessed by equality numerous people ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! They must be, cause if even One IS TRUE.... oops!
And as for the fully documented miracles as called by multiple witnesses both medical and scientific, yes they must also be fake.

Like the most recent one where a lady was coming home from work and was caught in a flood, it floated down stream, of course the lady could not swim, all windows were up and several men attempted to save her, but the clubs they were using just couldn't break the glass, so the car went fully under in 10 foot of water, the men were scrambling attempting to save the poor terrified woman. Suddenly without warning one of the men felt someone grab his arm, he quickly lost her but determination caused him to continue the struggle, till finally, he felt the woman grab his arm again, he then with tremendous effort hoisted the lady out of the sunken car. Wow, I get goosebumps just envisioning it.

Here's the thing though ..... when they pulled her car out of the pond, ALL THE WINDOWS were still up! Well if her windows were up, how did she get out?

Yeah I know you want to see it for yourself: okay go to YouTube and type in
Woman Drowning in her SUV is Miraculously Saved

The news clip is there.

Course the believing say, it's a miracle, where as the damned explain it away. No faith you see. So Who will go to HELL?

God says:
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars"they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

That includes anyone who has committed any of the following offenses, even once:
"You shall have no other gods before me

"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

"You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

"You shall not murder.

"You shall not commit adultery.

"You shall not steal.

"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

"You shall not covet your neighbor"s house. You shall not covet your neighbor"s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

Sadly THIS is the majority of the world. Hopefully not you.
CosmoJarvis

Con

Outline:
I: Introduction

II: A Biblical Description of "Hell"
III: What is a "Soul?"
IV: The Validity of the Bible and the Concept of "Hell"
V: Sources

I. Introduction

This debate is a formal discussion on the existence of "Hell," and who will enter it. Pro has argued that science has proven that evolution is a lie by saying "science has proven evolution a lie," and compared souls to ghosts I suppose, saying "But man HAS no soul goes the saying ...... this is another way of saying of the numerous ghost sightings caught on film, pictures, witnessed by equality numerous people ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE," and last, but not least, claiming that there is, beyond a doubt, Hell, and that those who deny the word of "God" and go against "His" laws will go there after death.

I have a fair amount of contrasting opinions and questions about his argument, with him going as far to call ghost sightings evidence for the existence of souls and such, and his beliefs in miracles, and why he believes that the Biblical depiction of the afterlife and Hell is the true depiction of the afterlife, and why other religions' beliefs in the afterlife are wrong.


My argument will start off with explaining the Biblical version of Hell, and other religion's beliefs of Hell. Afterwards, I will discuss what a "soul" is in the words of my own and other scientists. Finally, I will discuss the validity of the Bible and the inconsistencies it has.

II. A Biblical Description of "Hell"

The Bible describes "Hell" as a cursed place of "everlasting fire," (S1). Revelations 21:8 says that all "the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters, and all liars" (S2) shall be condemned to live and suffer for eternity in "Hell." Based on Revelations 21:8, we can assume that people are sent to hell for not believing in God, being homosexual, murdering people, practicing "witchcraft," and


Christianity is not the only religion which believes in a sort of "Hell" or afterlife. For example, the early people of Sumer believed that, after death, their souls would be trapped in a world of mud (Fun fact: This was inspired by how, after the chaotic floods of the Mesopotamian River, the area would be full of mud). Buddhism (though it is not necessarily a religion) believes that, after finally completing their long cycle of reincarnation, will reach Nirvana, a place of perfect peace and happiness, like Heaven.

This is a question for both Pro and something for readers to consider: How come, if there are so many different beliefs on what will happen to us after we die, is the Bible correct? What evidence proves that any belief is correct?

III. What is a "Soul?"

According to Christianity, a soul is the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect. It is the divine source of all identity and individuality (S3).

If a soul is a spiritual element that every human possesses that defines who we are, then how come, when some people who go through medical problems such as Alzheimer's or surgical procedures to remove parts of the frontal lobe of the brain (which control cognitive skills such as emotional expression, judgement and sexual behavior), why are they so different after the effects take their toll if souls are supposedly the things which preserve and define our personality, morality, and judgement?

IV. The Validity of the Bible and the Concept of "Hell"

For this debate, Pro has decided to support his claims with texts from the Bible. However, he does not even attempt to explain how other Religions view "Hell" or the afterlife as, nor does he provide any evidence whatsoever that the Biblical version of "Hell," or any "Hell" for that matter, is real.

The Bible is a secondary source. According to a website from Queens College regarding writing, a secondary source is a "source about an event, period, or issue in history that was produced after that event, period or issue has passed." The article describes secondary sources as being potentially unreliable. Secondary sources aren't always reliable because of their validity and the lack of evidence. By using the Bible as your only source for your argument, you're assuming that the Bible is a valid source (S4).

Additionally, the Bible has proven itself to be an unreliable source of knowledge. It's no surprise, however, because, after all, it was made during a time where people rejected science almost completely, explaining odd occurrences with magic rather than logic.

I find the story of Noah's Ark to be extremely peculiar. Noah was a simple man who was capable of making an arc large enough to store ALL the species of animals that we see today, and sail it through a tremendous flood which covered the entirety of the world, so it goes. And this man, by the power of God, was able to supply himself, his family, and the hundreds of animals onboard with enough food and clean water to make it through the voyage, so it goes. And yet, we still have no evidence of there ever having been a giant flood which covered the face of this Earth. And how on Earth can one man build such a vast sea-vessel which could fit all the animals of the World in it? In fact, how could every species of animals be put on his arc when there are the Slow Lorises concentrated in Asia, Arizona Bark Scorpions concentrated in North America, and Monotremes concentrated in Australia? If you suppose that Noah's Ark is a true story, then you also suppose that Noah traveled to North America, Australia and beyond to gather every species of animal.

Apparently, the Bible supposes things such as alchemy and transmogrification: human ribs transforming into fully matured human beings, and sticks turning into snakes (S5). From a logical standpoint, how can a lifeless twig turn into an animated snake?

One of the largest arguments against the Bible's validity is the Bible's claims that the Earth is flat, located at the center of the Universe, and is immobile, with claims such as 1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable," Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm," Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken," and Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast," (S6). However, science has disproven the flat-Earth theory.

Earth possesses a "center of gravity." Because Earth is a spherical/ovular shape, the "center of gravity" is Earth's core. The gravity will pull us toward the center of the Earth, meaning we're landlocked on the ground. Gravity acts like a weight which (unfortunately) keeps us from flying up in the sky like Superman. Consider holding a tennis ball, and then dropping it to the ground. Unless you throw it in a certain direction, the tennis ball will simply fall, not to the right nor left, or upwards, but downwards towards the ground. Though simple, this proves that there is a center of gravity that forces matter downwards to the center of the Earth.


V. Sources

S1) Matthew 25:41

S2) Revelations 21:8
S3) http://www.dictionary.com...
S4) http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu...

S5) Exodus 7:10-12
S6) https://www.lhup.edu...
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

As I read through my opponents opening rebuttal, I pondered this dilemma? Of the sources used, none inferred direct knowledge based on intimate experience, neither of Christianity nor of any other religion specified here?

Fact: I have immersed myself in Biblical study from 1980 to the present: attended churches, of differing denominations etc.

Fact: My opponent never claimed to be a believer, his arguments reflect as much. It is reasonable to conclude he has neither joined Indians, nor any other religious organizations to experience firsthand, the subject matter. Not studied, there ways, never followed in their traditions, never actually spent a second of time in the reviewed religion from which he provides an overview? This is not limited to my opponent by the way but is the lifestyle of all Atheist!

Fact: Of the two of us one is guessing? I am not!

Fact: One of us is “HOPING” there is not, I have No such delusions as to its existence!

Hard Fact: Doesn’t matter what either one of us believes. It is “WE” who by our actions shall suffer the consequences of “our” error, so will you. My recommendation is to stop guessing. DO what the rest of the civilized world IS doing. SEEK God!

In answer to the question:

II. A Biblical Description of "Hell"

A place of eternal separation from God, a place of suffering, and the precursor to the final judgement of the Fiery Lake of Fire!

Do you honestly “Need” more?

As a person of Intimate knowledge of Biblical text through personal experience, it is I who am the expert, not my opponent. This is certainly not to state he could not become an expert, but it does require actually joining into the religion of choice, and remaining in it till the truth or the lie is discovered, then and only then, should he move to the next religion. You will note I did not say give up, indeed, if you treasure your soul, you had better not ever give up! Ah yes, The Soul?

III. What is a "Soul?"

Easy, the soul, is you? The being that you call you. The one who makes the choices in this world, from your favorite ice cream to what color paint, to what house to buy. Very hard concept for the unbelieving to grasp as they have no intimate knowledge of their creator, and just float along in life unaware. Hmm how to explain.

Okay, An average store bought empty DVD weighs 0.034 lbs or 16 grams or .55 ounces. If I put movies, data, pictures, software on it how much does it weigh now?

That’s correct: It will weigh the same regardless of being blank or full of data.

https://answers.yahoo.com...

That is just like your soul …. It exists, it is massless, it is perpetual, and just like a dvd when it becomes scratched unreadable, and of no use but to throw away …. There the data remains, forever imprinted, just no longer accessible by mortal man’s devices. You see when the body dies, the software remains, just unable to be accessed by mortal man.

The biblical narrative lets us (believers know, that the soul not only remains but is also aware and cognizant?

(Luke 16:19-31).

Again I give you the greatest of evidences: millions of ghost sightings caught on film, picked up with scientific electronic devices, disembodied voices appearing on blank tapes, pictures, witnesses by the millions, NONE of them CAN BE TRUE not even 1 or else?

It is your job to prove or disprove, not to believe or not believe, accept or not accept ….. Your very soul depends upon you checking this out, but? If you choose to take the easy way out? Your choice because IT IS your consequence. Need I remind you that you ARE going to Die on time…. The question is before you come to God, or when there is no choice.

There is one thing that my opponent did say, that struck a chord ….. so crucial is the question that I must give great thanks to my opponent for being so kind as to mention it, so again Thank you.

****How does one KNOW which one is correct? Very important!****

The answer? The one that reveals Himself supernaturally, too you! God does not hide Himself from His followers, He is very active in their daily lives. He answers prayers, He guides governs our ways,making them straight, He leads us, He teaches us, and because He does, we learn at a vastly accelerated rate. But it is and was the Holy Grail of questions, and I thank my opponent for asking it.

Let us now cover the REAL reason unbelievers go to Hell. They are oblivious to reality, blinded by their sin, Their eyes are closed, their ears waxed gross:

Matthew 13:In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

So is the Life of the Atheist.

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to social and historical approaches. Rationales for not believing in deities include arguments that there is a lack of empirical evidence, the problem of evil; the argument from inconsistent revelations, the rejection of concepts that cannot be falsified, and the argument from nonbelief. Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies (eg. secular humanism), there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere. Many atheists hold that atheism is a more parsimonious worldview than theism and therefore that the burden of proof lies not on the atheist to disprove the existence of God but on the theist to provide a rationale for theism.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Sadly it is what it is, So let us break it down shall we?

Empirical evidence/Data? This is the Primary requirement of the atheist!

Meriam-Websters:

defined as: based on observation or experience

: Capable of being proven as true or real <a philosopher who does not regard “God exists” as an empirical statement>

By its very definition empirical evidence requires one to observe and experience for themselves to determine truth or fiction. The whole of religions are doing just that, the whole of course excluding atheist! I postulate that 99. 98 % of the 1.1 Billion nonbelievers fall into this category …. simply never bothering to prove or disprove Gods existence to themselves!

I bear witness to all present empirical evidence is not only there but has always been there.

Next: The problem with Evil.

The answer to this is simple- all evil is done by evil, evil people, on occasion a false believer who claimed knowledge of God, will reveal his true nature in his own evil deed. Is it remarkable, that saying and being are two entirely different things. Claim what you want, it is actions which define you, not words. Evil exists.

Ephesians Tells us (Christians, Followers of Christ) to remember save by the grace of God there go I.

Ephesians 2:2 in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience.

Corinthians tells Christ followers why you are as we once were!

2 Corinthians 4:4

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The bible just as well be greek to the nonbeliever!

Next: the rejection of concepts that cannot be falsified?

Was in my opening statement: Although science has proven evolution a lie ...... all KNOW, there is not a single, bacteria that has EVER become an air breathing animal. Sadly man has no desire to discover their accountability, by the one who is watching. This of course does not negate the outcome …. Fire burns, whether one chooses to believe it or not; yes?

Next: Many atheists hold that atheism is a more parsimonious worldview

Merriam Webster’s again defines as:

: exhibiting or marked by parsimony; especially: frugal to the point of stinginess

: Sparing, restrained

A society that is parsimonious in its personal charity (in terms of both time and money) will require more government welfare. —William J. Bennett, The Death of Outrage, 1998

enough said.

Lastly: Atheism holds that the burden of proof lies not on the atheist to disprove the existence of God but on the theist to provide a rationale for theism.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Zoroastrianism 2.6 million, Unitarian Universalism 0.8 million, Tenrikyo 2.0 million, Spiritism 15 million,

Sikhism 23 million, Shinto 4.0 million, Secular[a]/Nonreligious[b]/Agnostic/Atheist ≤1.1 billion,

Rastafarianism 0.6 million, Neo-Paganism 1.0 million, Judaism 14 million, Jainism 4.2 million, Islam 1.6 billion,

Hinduism 1 billion, Ethnic religions excluding some in separate categories 300 million, Christianity 2.2 billion,

Chinese traditional religion 394 million, Cao Dai 4.0 million, Buddhism 376 million, Bahá'í 7.0 million, African traditional religions 100 million,

total

7.167 Billion

99.98% of the total population of planet Earth is now or currently seeking God! leaving the other 0.2 % of the population which is 100% of nonbelievers or 1.1 Billion souls consigned to Hell or its equivalent for refusing to search. To suggest that there is no rationale sufficient to encourage the active seeking of God, is beyond absurd. I should not have to point this out, but I believe you are worthy saving, even if you don’t so I ask you?

Isn’t the fact that 6.67 Billion people out of the 7.167 Billion are actively in or actively seeking God, rationale enough? Only you can decide this, but the evidence that you want has been provided per your own request. May God help you in your search for God.

I thank you for your attendance and for your patience, may God bless!

CosmoJarvis

Con

Boy, oh boy... where do I begin?
"Shall I compare thee to a debater such as myself?
Thou art more difficult to reason with and don't read my arguments."
(Sorry, I just want to put that out there.)

For the third round, my argument won't be as structured as the previous; simply just a jamboree of frustrated thoughts and a list full of rebuttals.

"Of the sources used, none inferred direct knowledge based on intimate experience, neither of Christianity nor of any other religion specified here?"
Admittedly, I should have extended upon my points and such. I believe that I have, however, used a fair amount of evidence directly from the Bible. As I've written in the Sources Section of my previous argument, I used excerpts from the Bible such as Matthew 25:41 and Revelations 21:8. I also do discuss, though briefly, about the beliefs of other religions and what happens after death, such as the people of Sumer and their belief in that the afterlife is a "world of mud," inspired by the violent floods of the Mesopotamian River which destroyed the land and spread mud all around the area.

"My opponent never claimed to be a believer, his arguments reflect as much. It is reasonable to conclude he has neither joined Indians, nor any other religious organizations to experience firsthand, the subject matter. Not studied, there ways, never followed in their traditions, never actually spent a second of time in the reviewed religion from which he provides an overview? This is not limited to my opponent by the way but is the lifestyle of all Atheist!"
Great assumption, my friend, but you would be wrong. I have been indoctrinated in Catholicism since I was in second grade. For around eight years, I was educated on Catholicism and their beliefs. I have been through Baptism and Confirmation, and have attended Church every weekend as a young child. However, I did have growing suspicions about Catholicism. I questioned the validity of the Bible, the "morals" it preaches, the logic behind the religious tales such as Noahs Ark, etc. Yet, not even my religious faith could answer these questions. It was not until my mother had a seizure in the middle of the night that I questioned my religion. What God would dare to harm my mother, a generous Christian woman who cared and deeply loved both my brother and myself? But, enough of why I strayed from the path of "salvation" and became a heathenous scumbag atheist...
Additionally, criticizing people for being an atheist is nothing more than hypocritical. You saying that atheists are too blind to realize the existence of a God is like me saying that you're too ignorant to see rationality and logic behind why your God may not even exist.

Fact: Of the two of us one is guessing? I am not!
No comment.

"As a person of Intimate knowledge of Biblical text through personal experience, it is I who am the expert, not my opponent. This is certainly not to state he could not become an expert, but it does require actually joining into the religion of choice, and remaining in it till the truth or the lie is discovered, then and only then, should he move to the next religion."
As I said before, you have blindly assumed that I have never been in a religion before and therefore do not have the authority to make a decision on whether Christianity is real or not. I am indeed a former Christian who has spent years in religious studies and I daresay that I have enough knowledge and authority to decide for myself whether Christianity seems realistic or not.

"That is just like your soul …. It exists, it is massless, it is perpetual, and just like a dvd when it becomes scratched unreadable, and of no use but to throw away …. There the data remains, forever imprinted, just no longer accessible by mortal man’s devices. You see when the body dies, the software remains, just unable to be accessed by mortal man."
Saying this means that you believe in the existence of a sole based on a weak comparison to data on disks and faith. You lack any burden of proof to justify the existence of a soul. Your only outside source which you have used to support your idea is a Yahoo Answers forum page. Though I respect your effort to include sources to justify your arguments, using a source like Yahoo Answers is the same as consulting a forum of random people for answers to your homework question. This isn't a very trustworthy source.
You continue by explaining how the Bible "proves" that the soul exists. That's all well and good but, as I explained in my previous argument, the Bible is a secondary source written hundreds of years ago by uneducated people. The Bible, I personally feel, is not a proper source of knowledge.

"Isn’t the fact that 6.67 Billion people out of the 7.167 Billion are actively in or actively seeking God, rationale enough [to be a theist]?"
Most societies in the past were founded or centered on religious beliefs. But that's no surprise, seeing as the majority of people in the past lacked the ability to apply logic to odd occurrences. They chose to believe that things happened because of "magic" or "God(s)." You also have to take into account how deep-rooted religion is in societies, especially since religions such as Islam had been a large part in the people of the Middle East's lifestyles, with things like daily praise and such. However, societies are growing more secular, and rightly so. We're beginning to realize the fallacies in religion; the condemning of homosexuals, the belief in the Earth being flat, creationism, etc. The Atheist community is not growing because "SATAN GROWS STRONGER," but because we're beginning to question the logic behind religion with all the stories like Noah's Ark,.
Isn't the fact that 1 billion people out of the 7.167 billion have converted to agnosticism or atheism rationale enough to be an atheist or agnostic?
Debate Round No. 3
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CosmoJarvis 11 months ago
CosmoJarvis
My friend, you have it all wrong. You preach fallacies, and of a "God" that murders his own "children." I"m not interested in praising a genocidal, power-hungry dictator.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 11 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
s it not humorous that a intelligent mature human being, views another persons attempt to help them as some sort of self benefiting measure. How can one reconcile the belief that these people are doing this for some sort of selfish gain. As if they receive some kind of bonus, or gift or monitory profit for the saving of your skin?

Where is the reason in such thinking? I've yet to see a believer receive a thing, save the knowledge that one more person shall not have to go to the fiery pit of Hell. I've attempted to determine what reason the atheist has for fighting against saving his own skin? Is sin so pleasing, so worth while, so desirable that they willingly sacrifice their souls to the flames of Hell, for a moments fleshly pleasure that is here on moment ,gone the next. Hells flames are never ending, they burn perpetually, with no easement even after a billion years.

Thus is the eternal environment to which the atheist and unbelieving are consigned.
con"sign
deliver (something) to a person's custody
synonyms:assign, allocate, place, put, remit, commit
synonyms:send (off), courier, dispatch, transmit, convey, mail, post, ship
assign; commit decisively or permanently.
synonyms:send to, deliver to, hand over to, turn over to, sentence to;

The meaning is clear......no hope of escape! So be sure ... eternally safe or eternally damned, your choice.
Posted by CosmoJarvis 12 months ago
CosmoJarvis
Good debate. Perhaps we can debate another time, especially since I have decided to read the Bible for myself so that I, myself, can understand what the Bible is and provide my arguments for or against the Bible.
Posted by CosmoJarvis 1 year ago
CosmoJarvis
Ridiculous.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
CosmoJarvis;
"How curious" after all our discussions you continue to insist on diversion from the real topic? Which is you choose "NOT" to seek evidence of God. Your grasping for some kind of justification of some act that you can label immoral on Gods part, to make it more palatable for you to excuse responsibility of YOUR actions, is noteworthy. It will not work though, you are very much responsible for the choice you make.

I have a very close friend who does the same, except her reason is the injustice of God to NOT save the Indians and the aboriginal people. My response to her is no man can say How God is dealing with other peoples. Best to work on yourself, get saved and if you really are concerned about them, you might consider the mission field.

So I guess what I'm saying is to save yourself, and if you truly are concerned about Muslim children you might consider the missionary field, I'm positive they could use your help!
Posted by CosmoJarvis 1 year ago
CosmoJarvis
"it is that you and those like you are the ones who have, openly and willfully rejected Gods offer of salvation."

So children born into families of proud Muslims, who shall teach them of Islam, are rejecting a God even though they were forced by their parents to accept Allah as their God?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
CosmoJarvis;
At last you perhaps may yet see! Review all your own remarks and If your truthful with yourself, you will see, it IS NOT that God is not willing, it is that you and those like you are the ones who have, openly and willfully rejected Gods offer of salvation.

You want no ruler over you, you want to be the master of your own fate, and so you are. But it is a fate of suffering, and separation from God, by YOUR own will, not by His. You cannot blame God for YOUR refusal to seek Him, that's on you, but your punishment, sadly for you that IS His to impose.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Mores the pity!
Posted by CosmoJarvis 1 year ago
CosmoJarvis
It's no surprise that "God" isn't willing to save everyone he can. After all, he did call forth two bears to maul 42 children simply because they mocked a man for being bald, and did kill almost everyone on the world during the "Great Flood" in the story of Noah's Ark. All the men, women and children he killed. Christians argue that all life is precious, even unborn fetuses, yet God murdered billions to "wash away the sins of humanity."
I do not want salvation from a immoral deity such as him. I would rather be called a nutter and believe in a made-up God.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
CosmoJarvis;
Sigh, Alas God does say that, oh well best to let scripture have its say. As my opinion, nor belief is what saves me, but the word of God.

Matthew 7:13-14New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Posted by CosmoJarvis 1 year ago
CosmoJarvis
Ah yes, "God," is certainly our savior. That is why, if we are unfortunately born into a family that believes in a religion like Islam, we are automatically condemned to suffer an eternity. In fact, that is why approximately 5.4 billion people on this Earth are currently condemned to Hell.
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