The Instigator
wjmelements
Pro (for)
Winning
36 Points
The Contender
Shadowfall
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

High School English classes should be non-compulsory

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
wjmelements
Started: 4/28/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,024 times Debate No: 8017
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (6)

 

wjmelements

Pro

High school refers to the grades between 9 and 12.

compulsory- mandatory http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Most grammar and vocabulary necessary for daily education is taught before highschool.

"Ninth grade students will write in a variety of forms, building on earlier experiences in written expression while exploring and correctly using the conventions of language and vocabulary. Students will learn and use techniques of oral communication and critical/strategic reading skills exploring a variety of literary genres."

"Tenth grade students will write in various forms to demonstrate skills of evaluation and analysis while refining the usage of language conventions and vocabulary. Students will explore the principles and techniques of literary criticism, conduct research, and document career options."

"Eleventh grade students will continue to develop techniques of discussion and written expression through critical reading of American authors and poets with emphasis on an analysis of the interrelationships of culture and literature. Students will write more sophisticated compositions in a variety of forms and create a significant writing product requiring basic mastery of research, documentation, and synthesis of ideas from a variety of sources. Techniques of oral communication will be strengthened."

"The twelfth grade English curriculum is the culmination of the students' study of language, literature, and writing in high school. Students will explore primarily the works of Great Britain and the British Commonwealth to refine skills in critical reading, literary analysis, and written expression. Students will be required to write a number of compositions that apply critical reading skills and various methods of literary criticism, as well as compositions to inform and persuade."

Source for all: http://www.harfordtech.net...
My opponent agrees to this example curriculum by accepting this debate.

Skills such as "critical reading" and knowlege of "a variety of literary genres" is not important to the everyday individual. "Critical reading of American authors and poets with emphasis on an analysis of the interrelationships of culture and literature" is insignificant to many different professions:
-truck drivers
-plumbers
-electricians
-lawyers
-doctors
-entrepreneurs
-factory workers
-farmers
-etc

Because such information is ultimately irrelevant to many people's lives, individuals should not be forced to take four years of high school English class.
Shadowfall

Con

Hi, best of luck with the debate. :]

"Most grammar and vocabulary necessary for daily education is taught before high school."
Although this is true, like most things the English language is constantly changing and evolving and although it may seem like overkill to make it mandatory to have students take English related courses from grades 9 to 12 I'd say the benefits of this are very much worth the time invested in it.

"Ninth grade students will write in a variety of forms, building on earlier experiences in written expression while exploring and correctly using the conventions of language and vocabulary. Students will learn and use techniques of oral communication and critical/strategic reading skills exploring a variety of literary genres."

"Tenth grade students will write in various forms to demonstrate skills of evaluation and analysis while refining the usage of language conventions and vocabulary. Students will explore the principles and techniques of literary criticism, conduct research, and document career options."

"Eleventh grade students will continue to develop techniques of discussion and written expression through critical reading of American authors and poets with emphasis on an analysis of the interrelationships of culture and literature. Students will write more sophisticated compositions in a variety of forms and create a significant writing product requiring basic mastery of research, documentation, and synthesis of ideas from a variety of sources. Techniques of oral communication will be strengthened."

"The twelfth grade English curriculum is the culmination of the students' study of language, literature, and writing in high school. Students will explore primarily the works of Great Britain and the British Commonwealth to refine skills in critical reading, literary analysis, and written expression. Students will be required to write a number of compositions that apply critical reading skills and various methods of literary criticism, as well as compositions to inform and persuade."

In the United States schools are having less and less control over what they actual teach as these curriculum are almost always mandated by the state in which you reside in the hopes that you can get the most out of your education and succeed in life beyond school.

Skills such as "critical reading" and knowlege of "a variety of literary genres" is not important to the everyday individual. "Critical reading of American authors and poets with emphasis on an analysis of the interrelationships of culture and literature" is insignificant to many different professions:
-truck drivers
-plumbers
-electricians
-lawyers
-doctors
-entrepreneurs
-factory workers
-farmers
-etc

English is one of the most important subjects to schools because obviously it's what we use to communicate our ideas and feelings to the surrounding population which serves to make us more effective in all the things we do. Though it may seem that there are people that don't need the knowledge they would learn from taking mandatory English classes, it would strongly benefit each and every career you listed to at least have high school experience in English.

"Because such information is ultimately irrelevant to many people's lives, individuals should not be forced to take four years of high school English class."
Lastly, I'd have to imagine even if you didn't have these classes you'd either fill them with other electives, or have study halls - which would be more beneficial to you in the long run? Besides, schools try to offer a wide range of different classes as to broaden the horizons of the students - I mean.. How do you know that one of those people you mentioned above didn't a certain knack for writing, and had they taken those English classes they could have had a change of heart and pursue a career as a writer?
Debate Round No. 1
wjmelements

Pro

I thank my opponent for this debate.

There are two ways to satisfy the resolution:
-Allow students to take any elective as an alternative to English
-Allow students to take a similar class to English, such as journalism, as an alternative

--------------------------------
"I'd say the benefits of this are very much worth the time invested in it."
Back this up. "I believe it because I do" is not a valid argument.

My opponent claims that because bureaucrats control education rather than educators, "you can get the most out of your education and succeed in life beyond school". However, bureacrats cannot effectively run the lives of an individual. If knowing about 19th century literature helps a student succeed after school, then they might voluntarily take an English class. However, in most cases, such knowledge is not beneficial and ultimately replaces information that might otherwise be beneficial to students.

My opponent claims that High School English classes teach us "to communicate our ideas and feeling to the surrounding population". However, such a skill is often taught before high school. Learning about "literary criticism" is not important to the large majority of the population.

---------> A communication class is often required to graduate in the United States.
Such a class accomplishes my opponent's need to "communicate our ideas and feelings to the surrounding population". English is not necessary for this.

"How do you know that one of those people you mentioned above didn't a certain knack for writing, and had they taken those English classes they could have had a change of heart and pursue a career as a writer?"
Forcing teenagers to take a class that they otherwise aren't interested in would not lead them to become writers. Most people do not become interested in writing and journalism in junior year.

-------------> Journalism could be offered as an alternative to English class. In fact, if such an alternative to English class were offered, its attendence would increase.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opponent has given two reasons why students should be forced to take English in high school:
-communication
-hidden writing talent
Both are irrelevant:
-Communication is a different class. It is necessary and mandatory.
-Journalism/Creative Writing would be a wonderful alternative to English
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I now await my opponent's arguments.
Shadowfall

Con

Shadowfall forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
wjmelements

Pro

My opponent has forfeited.

Extend my arguments.

It would be beneficial to either:
-allow students to take any elective as an alternative to English
-allow students to take a similar class to English, such as journalism or creative writing, as an alternative

High School English Class is unnecessary for daily communication, which is another mandatory class anyways, and is ultimately a waste of time and education.

I thank my opponent for this debate.
Shadowfall

Con

Shadowfall forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by wjmelements 4 years ago
wjmelements
"I voted neutral on reliable sources, as I did not feel one side dominated the other in this aspect."
CON didn't use sources...
Posted by fresnoinvasion 4 years ago
fresnoinvasion
All 7 votes go pro. Not because I agree with him.. But because he beat the con debater, which is all that matters in a debate between 2 people. To take away votes from a person because of preconceived notions is retarded.
Posted by PervRat 4 years ago
PervRat
While I concur with Con's position both before and after the debate, I nonetheless regret the sum total of my vote was +3 to Con (for agree with before, after and more convincing arguments) versus +2 to Pro (for conduct -- forfeiting any round is an automatic loss of my vote for conduct -- as well as spelling and grammar, as I found fewer errs on Pro's side than Con's). I feel Pro presented their case much more strongly, but not enough to convince me to change my mind on the subject, and I still felt the arguments Con made were stronger, which automatically gives them than half of my vote.

I voted neutral on reliable sources, as I did not feel one side dominated the other in this aspect.
Posted by wjmelements 4 years ago
wjmelements
"I try never to let my schooling interfere with my education. -Mark Twain"

That's brilliant. And I don't like having to read Great Expectations when I could be reading The Wealth Of Nations.
Posted by rangersfootballclub 4 years ago
rangersfootballclub
english should be complusory for all children/teenagers from the ages of 12-16. simple.

i gott kicked out of school jsut before i was 15 , Now im not stupid , but i seriously do have problems spellign occasionally , well most of the time. and puncuation , its a pain in the briannnnnnn.....
Posted by Brewmaster 4 years ago
Brewmaster
"High school english? Prepare for college paper requirements? HAHAHA OH WOW."

I try never to let my schooling interfere with my education. -Mark Twain
Posted by wjmelements 4 years ago
wjmelements
"The argument that's being left out here (and I suspect the real reason for most english classes in high school) is for students that are going to attend college. As paper writing is an important part of college classes, high school english prepares students for this."

Then students planning to take college courses would take English over an althernative. So?
Posted by s0m31john 4 years ago
s0m31john
Ah college.

"So you want to be a mathematics major? You have 5 English Literature classes and 1 math related class, good day."
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 4 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
High school english? Prepare for college paper requirements?

HAHAHA OH WOW.
Posted by MrMarkP37 4 years ago
MrMarkP37
The argument that's being left out here (and I suspect the real reason for most english classes in high school) is for students that are going to attend college. As paper writing is an important part of college classes, high school english prepares students for this.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by wjmelements 4 years ago
wjmelements
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Vote Placed by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
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Vote Placed by mongeese 4 years ago
mongeese
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Vote Placed by mongoose 4 years ago
mongoose
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Vote Placed by fresnoinvasion 4 years ago
fresnoinvasion
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Vote Placed by PervRat 4 years ago
PervRat
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