The Instigator
debateme
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
THEBOMB
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

High school literature classes should be replaced

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
THEBOMB
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2012 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,448 times Debate No: 20398
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

debateme

Pro

Full topic: High school English literature classes should be replaced with basic English grammar classes that students can test out of if they recieve a high enough score.1st round is for acceptance only.Arguments are limited to 1,000 characters.Definitions/Synonyms from Merriam Webster:Basic: elementary; of, relating to, or dealing with the simplest elements or principles of somethingLiterature: Writings in prose or verseGrammar: The study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentenceThanks in advance to whoever accepts!
THEBOMB

Con

Alright I accept this challenge!
Debate Round No. 1
debateme

Pro

Thanks for accepting, and sorry about the formatting issues in round 1.

C1

Some high school students display a lack of grammatical skills. These grammar classes will resolve this problem without forcing students who already have a sound grasp of English grammar to endure a class that is useless to them.

C2

Lit classes don't adequately teach students grammar. For one, reading books (or writing books, for that matter) doesn't directly teach students grammatical rules. Also, there isn't a way to ensure that a student actually reads the assigned books.

C3

Lit classes rarely teach students useful things. Of the useful things that students do learn from lit class, most are also taught in other classes like history.

C4

Removing lit class from schools will also remove the required reading that goes along with it. This will free up time for students to read things that they actually enjoy, causing those students who would have chosen not to read the assigned reading to read more.
THEBOMB

Con

Don't worry about the formatting

C1 Students who test out of grammar classes will spend an entire year without an English class. So instead of just replacing lit class. Why not instead add an extra English class, grammar, which can be tested out of. That way students receive the benefit of both learning grammar and reading literature. Instead of replacing. Just add.

C2 Lit classes are important for a student. In lit classes, students are made to write papers, or take tests, about themes of the novels being read and discussed. This forces them to use higher critical thinking in order to formulate a thesis about the novel(s) and the write a paper. If they don't read. They fail. It develops critical thinking.

C3 The novels selected in lit classes are chosen for a reason. A teacher does not just randomly choose books. The book may have themes important to understand about the development of a society. There may be a new writing style in the book. It forces kids to read "good" literature
Debate Round No. 2
debateme

Pro

C1 All students would have to retake the grammar test each year regardless of whether or not they passed their freshman year. This would ensure that they had't lost any of their grammar skills during the year. If they had, they would have to take the grammar class.

C2 Writing papers and taking tests about themes in a novel does not develop critical thinking. Being forced to write about, for example, what a river represents in a novel is a mind-numbing activity. Students already develop critical thinking 100x as much in math and science classes as they do in lit classes. Also, just because a student doesn't read, doesn't mean they will fail. Some students may choose to use chapter summary websites, however dishonest it may be.

C3 Just about everything that is taught in lit class is also taught in history class, in a much more practical and effective way. Learning things like "new writing styles" and literary devices is useless for a student in the long run.
THEBOMB

Con

Our points clash so I'll just keep going

C1. You still didn't explain why it would be better to replace a class which has some use. Rather than just implement a new class teaching grammar.

C2. Yes it does, you have to think about what the river may represent than prove your point in a paper. It develops logical reasoning, critical thinking, and debate skills. You form a hypothesis (thesis), and attempt to prove it in the body. Even if they do use a chapter summary site they still develop debating skills. Writing papers and getting you critiqued gives a better impact on how to write than just learning the rules. BOTH are important.

C3. Prove these are useless. Writing is important. Also, even if it is lit would then be a backup which is good. Lit teaches about cultural aspects and why. History teaches the what. Lit gives more moral aspects of why something is good or bad. For example, slavery (Uncle Tom's Cabin why slavery is bad. Textbook what slavery is and what was done about it)
Debate Round No. 3
debateme

Pro

C1 Since lit class doesn't have any use, I don't have to explain why would be better to simply replace it. My point still stands.

C2 Arguing over what a river might represent is mind-numbing because it doesn't matter what the river represents. In a history class, you learn about borders and cultural assimilation. In a lit class, you focus on how a river represents those borders, instead of learning what happened and why. Also, reasoning skills are taught in science class, but using things that matter. Lastly, in grammar classes, students are critiqued on their grammar through objective tests.

C3 Students do not need to learn "new writing styles" to be good writers, as they already know grammar from the grammar classes. Also, history does teach cultural aspects and "why". For example, if you take a Native American history course, you will learn all about their culture. The fact that lit teaches moral aspects is a bad thing. Morality is personal; students should discover it for themselves.
THEBOMB

Con

C1. Lit class has some use so it would be better to just add another class.

C2. In lit class, you still develop debate skills, critical thinking skills and some logical reasoning skills. My opponent dropped the point it still teaches these things even if at a lesser level in some areas but, a greater area in others. Furthermore, teaching about say a river and a kid tells of an individual interaction with society not a societal interaction with other societies. An objective test is not the best way to learn grammar. Hands on experience in writing is.

C3. A new writing style encompasses vocabulary, their personality in writing, how they perceive the audience, their tone, frameworks, etc. This is a FUNDAMENTAL part of writing. The best way to develop style is by reading good literature. A lit class teaches cultural aspects more in depth than a history class. You develop your moral preferences through yours and others experiences, good literature gives other people's experiences.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
Here it is reformatted:

Full topic: High school English literature classes should be replaced with basic English grammar classes that students can test out of if they recieve a high enough score.

1st round is for acceptance only.
Arguments are limited to 1,000 characters.

Definitions/Synonyms from Merriam Webster:
Basic: elementary; of, relating to, or dealing with the simplest elements or principles of something
Literature: Writings in prose or verse
Grammar: The study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentence

Thanks in advance to whoever accepts!
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
I can understand it. Don't worry about it.
Posted by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
Somehow the formatting went haywire for round 1
Posted by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
"High school English literature classes should be replaced with basic English grammar classes that students can test out of if they recieve a high enough score."

Try reading my Round 1 post.
Posted by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
"High school English literature classes should be replaced with basic English grammar classes that students can test out of if they recieve a high enough score."

Try reading my Round 1 post.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
with what?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by wmpeebles 5 years ago
wmpeebles
debatemeTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con brought up points that pro couldn't adequately defend. Pro made statements without any proof, and it was easy for Con to shoot them down. Interesting debate topic.
Vote Placed by Buckethead31594 5 years ago
Buckethead31594
debatemeTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Honestly, neither side did a very good job at presenting their arguments. Neither side used any sources whatsoever. I can really only credit Con for spelling and grammar, due to Pro's lack of it in the first round. However, both sides used their reasoning skills effectively. Next time, just use some sources; that really would have been the deciding factor.