The Instigator
debateme
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points
The Contender
Ahcount
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

High school should start later than it currently does

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
debateme
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2012 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,696 times Debate No: 20270
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (5)

 

debateme

Pro

Pro argues that high schools should start later than the current start time
Con argues that high schools should start at the current start time

The current start time that will be used is 7:45.

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Main Arguments
Round 3: Rebuttals
Round 4: Further Rebuttals

Only public schools will be discussed here.

I am aware there was another debate on this topic, but the Pro was a horrible debater so I want to give this topic another chance.

Thanks!
Ahcount

Con

So, there is no actual debating for round one? School starts at 7:45 because it is the prime of your brain function. If you are tired at 7:45, you need to see a doctor or get a better bed time before 12. Public Government schools won't just change for the few who see it as necessary to start school later. If you want to wake up late and finish school around 6 in the afternoon, then ask your mom to homeschool you.
Debate Round No. 1
debateme

Pro

To answer your question, yes there is no debating in round one, but I will still make a counterpoint to your point: "School starts at 7:45 because it is the prime of your brain function."

Counterpoint 1: According to the National Sleep Foundation, teens' natural sleep cycle puts them in conflict with school start times.

"They are like zombies getting ready for school and find it hard to be alert and pay attention in class. Because they are sleep deprived, they are sleepy all day and cannot do their best."


Point 1: Biological sleep patterns shift toward later times for both sleeping and waking during adolescence.

It has been proven that teens function on a sleep pattern that favors a later bedtime and waketime. It's not natural for teens to fall asleep before 11PM, and since teens need 9 hours of sleep, a 7:45 school start time doesn't allow them nearly enough time to sleep.

Point 2: Teen's sleep patterns would be more regular throughout the week

Teens tend to sleep in late and stay up late on the weekends. Making the school day start later would make their sleep schedule more regular, preventing their quality of sleep from being hurt.

Point 3: Students who go to school at 7:45 tend to be depressed

In a recent poll by the National Sleep Foundation, 54% of students are moderately or highly depressed on a regular basis. 73% of those depressed students also reported feeling tired throughout the day and not getting enough sleep at night.


Sources:
http://www.sleepfoundation.org...;
Ahcount

Con

"School starts at 7:45 because it is the prime of your brain function." By brain function, I was refering that waking up at this time will help your brain be prepared for the rest of the day. Oversleeping will cause you to be less attentive

Answer to Counterpoint 1: According to the National Sleep Foundation, teens' natural sleep cycle puts them in conflict with school start times.

Classes, in most public schools, begin around 8:30. One hour and fifteen minutes is enough/pleanty of time for your brain to be wide awake and ready for school. If you have 6 hours of sleep, dont blame your school, blame your sleeping habits.


Counterpoint 1+2: "Biological" bad habits shift toward later times for both sleeping and waking during adolescence.

What you are stating is opinion and has not been proven. Teenagers are used to staying up late because they obviously are ok with being tired in the morning when school starts.


Counterpoint 3: Students who go to school at 7:45 tend to be depressed

Hate to break it to you, but this is not fault on the school system's behalf. Maybe these researchers you refer me to should focus on something far more broad. Orgasm = less testosterone = depression and lack of boldness.

Point 1: Arriving at later hours, would leave the even worse down side, of dismisal at later hours

Run a poll and see who wins. Best bet says you're going to find out teens would rather wake up earlier than finish school at, say, five oclock in the afternoon. Welcome to the real world. If you go to your boss and tell him you start work too early, guess what. "You're Fired." Thats life and unless you can prove your points better than some random information you find off some sleeping website, I would suggest retreating.

Debate Round No. 2
debateme

Pro

I want to start out by pointing out the lack of sources my opponent provides. For example, he says, "Oversleeping will cause you to be less attentive", but never provides any data or research to back up his claim. I, on the other hand, have provided data and research to back up my claims and will continue to do so in this and further posts.

Rebuttal to Answer to Counterpoint 1:

You failed to use the accepted starting time that was agreed upon at the beginning of the debate, 7:45. 7:45 was never agreed to be the wake up time, it was agreed to be the school start time. If you really wanted to change the agreed upon start time, you should have done so in Round 1. Also, I am blaming the schools for not meeting the needs of teens who have different sleep patterns than adults. It is the schools' job to teach students, and they are unable to do this properly without respecting the sleep patterns of teens.

Rebuttal to Counterpoint 1/2:

What I stated was not opinion, I provided a source of research (the National Sleep Foundation) to prove what I said. If you disagree with this research, you must provide contrary research. Dismissing research as an opinion is not ok.

Rebuttal to Counterpoint 3:

You missed the point of my argument, or maybe you intentionally ignored it, but my point was that forcing kids to wake up at a time that interrupts their sleep patterns causes them to be more depressed.

Counterpoint 1:

Instead of asking me to run a poll to disprove your argument, why not run a poll to prove yours. Your hypothetical poll and your opinion on what you think the results will be doesn't count as evidence supporting your claim, considering that it is hypothetical. Your "real world" example is also garbage, considering that it is another hypothetical and doesn't involve any quantitative data, but also because it is untrue. If an employee asked his or her boss if they could get later hours, the boss would say yes or no. A "no" answer, however, would not cause the person to be fired as you suggest, they would simply remain employed with the same hours.


Point 1: Teens who start school earlier have a higher crash rate

Studies have shown that teens who start school earlier are more likely to get in car accidents. The research source (The American Academy of Sleep Medicine) that I will be presenting shows that crash rates are 41% higher in schools that start at 7:20 vs schools that start at 8:40.

Source- http://www.aasmnet.org...



Your comment about me needing to "prove [my] points better than some random information [I] find off some sleeping website" is extremely hypocritical considering you have failed to produce ANY research sources that contradict those that I have provided. Also, since you have stated that you don't like the National Sleep Foundation (for whatever reason), here is another source that confirms the same ideas: http://kidshealth.org...;


Ahcount

Con

Hate to bum you out of an argument, but I've been playing devils' advocate this entire time. This was my first argument on this site and its good to know theres people who can debate pretty well. I agree with everything you stated and once again sorry for wasting your time. Very well organized, hope to debate on something I actually believe next time.

Debate Round No. 3
debateme

Pro

Con has forfeited. I have won.
Ahcount

Con

End of argument: 1-9-2012
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CoolPapa 5 years ago
CoolPapa
I am severely disappointed with the Con's third round. I find this to be the cheapest way out of a debate, just as soon as you are about to lose you just turn around and say "gotcha! i was (either) not really trying, thanks for entertaining me! (or) playing devil's advocate, you have entertained me long enough so i will cease this facade. This is poor manners in a debate. If you are going to play devil's advocate, do so from the beginning do not just use it as a cop out at the very end when it is apparent that you will lose. Vote Pro because con is a poor excuse for a debater.
Posted by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
Now?
Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
How do you change your position? Cancel the debate and rewrite the title and opening round.
Posted by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
How's that?
Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
If that time is preferable, perhaps you should make that your position instead. If it isn't, why is that a problem?
Posted by debateme 5 years ago
debateme
Maikuru, because then they could argue for 8:59.
Posted by cameronl35 5 years ago
cameronl35
jp :)
Posted by cameronl35 5 years ago
cameronl35
Face it Maikuru, I'm always two seconds before you.
Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
Ha! Nice timing, cameron.
Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
Why can't Con argue that school start no later than 9? That is the logical counter position.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.
Vote Placed by aliasam1337 5 years ago
aliasam1337
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con should be banned for waisting everyones time. Pro put in work and research to formulate a great debate only for it to be for no reason. Con copped out to avoid humiliation.
Vote Placed by larztheloser 5 years ago
larztheloser
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Reasons for voting decision: Guess.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Well....Con's agreement with Pro's position is probably the reason why he couldn't formulate any convincing counter-arguments. In addition to just denying Pro's statement (without acknowledging the research associated with it), Con used the "get real" approach and....understandably lost. And he did waste Pro's time by not only using such an approach but even forfeited the debate before it could expand...........But then again, Con might be lying, but either way, Pro wins by a long coun.
Vote Placed by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: FF and I didn't exactly like the way it was forfeited....