The Instigator
das_kapitel
Pro (for)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
brittwaller
Con (against)
Winning
39 Points

High school teachers should be able to be armed inside the school.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/22/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,692 times Debate No: 2865
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (14)

 

das_kapitel

Pro

High school teachers with a concealed weapon license, should be allowed to carry a loaded gun while inside the school in order to provide extra protection for students, and themselves. Security guards are a great for ensuring a comfortable state of security in the hallways, but very seldom are they actually inside the classroom. Teachers however, are.
brittwaller

Con

High school teachers are just as able as students or anyone else to be armed inside the school. If a student can sneak a gun into a school undetected, then a teacher with more experience and access to the school should have no problem.

If we are debating the "should," though, my position will be that no one should be able to be armed with any weapon of any kind. The presence of any weapons presents the possibility for direct and extreme violence, and this should be avoided at all costs, especially in schools.

On a practical note, all that this would do is start an arms race, in the most literal sense of the phrase. Turning the schools into a police state or Wild West-style saloon is not the answer to the problems of violence that we face today.
Debate Round No. 1
das_kapitel

Pro

True, the teachers could sneak a gun into the school, but they shouldn't have to. They should be allowed to have them there, and i'm not talking about all the teachers, only the ones with a concealed weapon license. In order to obtain this license, you have to pay(in Dallas at least), a $200 charge for the class, be a minimal age of 21, and be responsible enough to handle a gun. It won't be an irresponsible, trigger happy, murderer who is handling these weapons, they will be educated, responsible, educators who have an extra security for the worst of situations.

If teachers were allowed to carry weapons inside the school, there would be no doubt that there would still be students that would have them as well, but there would probably be less if they knew that if they pulled a gun, there will be teachers that would defend the other students, as well as themselves.

It wouldn't create a "wild west" scenario, it would create an area of increased safety precautions to make a better learning environment for students
brittwaller

Con

"It won't be an irresponsible, trigger happy, murderer who is handling these weapons, they will be educated, responsible, educators who have an extra security for the worst of situations."

-How do you know this? Teachers are only as human as anyone, and you nor anyone else can accurately predict the mindsets/motives/circumstances of these teachers. The possibility of one "going postal," as it were, is always there. In fact, the possibility would be significantly raised if guns were at their immediate disposal.

"If teachers were allowed to carry weapons inside the school, there would be no doubt that there would still be students that would have them as well, but there would probably be less if they knew that if they pulled a gun, there will be teachers that would defend the other students, as well as themselves."

-When a kid goes to school with a gun and a purpose for that gun, similar to Columbine, I doubt that teachers having guns would be much of a deterrent. First, do you have any empirical evidence to support this claim?
Second, they probably expect to kill themselves or die in another way in any case, so they wouldn't be too worried. Compare to the psychology of a suicide bomber.
Third, the students would know that their teachers might have a gun. New strategy: before killing bullies, jocks, preps, or other stereotypes, kill the teacher first. Problem solved!

Your argument literally boils down to "more guns equal more safety," and this is simply not the case. As I said, all it would do is induce an arms race.
Debate Round No. 2
das_kapitel

Pro

True, there is a possibility that any person could "go postal", but that's just it, anybody COULD. A police officer COULD become angry and shoot the person they just put in the back of their car, a secret service agent COULD become angry and shoot the president while he's sitting at his desk, and an armed teacher COULD go crazy and shoot their students, but the real question is WOULD they.

The people chosen for these positions are not people who would go nuts and start killing people, if they were, if it was even thought that they may be, they would not be accepted for the job. It is the same with teachers. If there was the slightest thought of a person being a danger to the students or anyone in any form or fashion during their employment at the school, they would not be chosen for the job.

We have armed police officers because them being armed creates a safer environment for them and everyone else present, including the convict. Our President has armed secret service agents because them being armed creates the safest possible environment for him. Our schools also then, should be able to have that extra security by giving teachers with a concealed weapon license the option to carry a weapon to give protection for our future police officers, presidents, and teachers.
brittwaller

Con

First let me point out that my opponent only addressed one of my points that I made in Round 2.

"True, there is a possibility that any person could "go postal", but that's just it, anybody COULD. A police officer COULD become angry and shoot the person they just put in the back of their car, a secret service agent COULD become angry and shoot the president while he's sitting at his desk, and an armed teacher COULD go crazy and shoot their students, but the real question is WOULD they."

-Under the right set of circumstances they would, yes.

"The people chosen for these positions are not people who would go nuts and start killing people, if they were, if it was even thought that they may be, they would not be accepted for the job. It is the same with teachers. If there was the slightest thought of a person being a danger to the students or anyone in any form or fashion during their employment at the school, they would not be chosen for the job."

-Your comparison of police officers and secret service agents is a little off-kilter. Police are there specifically to deal with the public at large, not to teach children. The secret service has a specific role, and it is not teaching children, either. I only need to raise the issue of accidental police shootings/beatings and the failure of the secret service to stop the JFK assassination and the shooting of Ronald Reagan. If someone has a motive to do harm and a psychological commitment to achieve their goal, no amount of deterrence, even certain death, is going to stop them.
And again, you cannot say in advance what a particular person is capable of or will do, regardless of their current mental status. So why open the possibility of such a thing happening in the first place? More guns in schools, no matter who has them, does not mean more safety. I wouldn't be comfortable at school knowing anyone had a gun, whether they be teachers or not. Also, the screening process and training for police officers and secret service agents is somewhat more rigorous than that of a teacher with a concealed carry license.

In the end, we must ask ourselves if we want a kind of cold war where teachers and students carry guns, or do we want to try and solve the problems that lead to violence in schools in the first place? There may always be a certain level of violence in schools, but I would be in favor of solving the underlying issues - poverty, amorality, the low value that is placed on life in general in our society, and the availability of guns in the first place. Until these things are dealt with or resolved, having teachers carry guns will be an unsafe and unsuccessful deterrent.

Thank you for the debate. (And as annoying as it is to say this, please vote on the arguments and not the positions.)
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Donpawn 9 years ago
Donpawn
srry about that the damn computer may have wrote it twice.
Posted by Donpawn 9 years ago
Donpawn
I would like to give a few examples of some things like:

In Brittain killing rate is much much lower than in America because, noone there carries guns not even the police do.

Also many teachers are also molesters like in Lincoln Middle school and other schools now adays now u say schools get the people who wont go nuts.

Though it may end up to alot more shootings in schools through crazed teachers.
Posted by Donpawn 9 years ago
Donpawn
I would like to give a few examples of some things like:

In Brittain killing rate is much much lower than in America because, noone there carries guns not even the police do.

Also many teachers are also molesters like in Lincoln Middle school and other schools now adays now u say schools get the people who wont go nuts.

Though it may end up to alot more shootings in schools through crazed teachers.
Posted by left_wing_mormon 9 years ago
left_wing_mormon
Wouldn't giving the teachers guns encourage violence. The presence of guns in general usually create an uneasy atmosphere.
This would also allow students to obtain a gun more easily.
Posted by brittwaller 9 years ago
brittwaller
I take it my idealistic last paragraph was not particularly well-received by the voters for some reason. Fair enough, I sppose.
Posted by brittwaller 9 years ago
brittwaller
Sure thing. See you around the site.
Posted by das_kapitel 9 years ago
das_kapitel
Thanks for the debate Britt, it was a lot of fun. I'd love to debate with you again in the future.
Posted by Scyrone 9 years ago
Scyrone
"that it should be announced to the students or made public in any way"

It would be announced. Think about it, every single teacher would know. Their family would most likely know. Some might think that it is even wrong and they might tell everyone they know to get the word out. It will always happen.

I voted for brittwaller because his argument held up better and he provided more concrete evidence for his arguments.
Posted by GaryBacon 9 years ago
GaryBacon
I've been keeping up with this debate. At first das kapitel's argument seemed reasonable. Perhaps teachers with a weapon's liscense should be permitted to carry a concealed weapon, especially when the high school is known to be a dangerous one. There could be some arguments for self defense.

But mentioning it as a deterrent to other kids is where he lost me. If the teachers were allowed to carry a gun, it still does not mean that it should be announced to the students or made public in any way.

I've read through the entire debate, and I voted in favour of brittwaller.
Posted by brittwaller 9 years ago
brittwaller
It's all good. Just remember to save comments like that until after the debate.

Peace
Britt
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by JBlake 9 years ago
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