The Instigator
nevrfaded
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points
The Contender
KevinL75
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points

Hilary Clinton has more experience than Barack. Obama.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,558 times Debate No: 654
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (2)
Votes (8)

 

nevrfaded

Con

Hilary Clinton is readily afforded credit for being more experienced than Barack Obama, especially by the media. What leads them to this conclusion, her additional years of service in the Senate, in which she failed to lead or distinguish herself on anything of note?

If time in the Senate is the metric of relevance then surely we should go with one of the lifers, Biden or Dodd.

Is Hilary more experienced because she was first lady; the logic of which implies that Laura Bush has more recent "experience?"

Or is the term "experience" nothing more than an inuendo to race in America, and the inevitable "unelectability" of an African American.
KevinL75

Pro

Well, first I'd like to say that if we examine Obama and Clinton objectively, I don't think we can come to the conclusion that Obama has more experience than Clinton. Clinton has four more years in the Senate than Obama, 8 as a very active first lady, and holds a law degree. Obama has about half a term of experience in the Senate, 8 years as a state legislator, and also holds a law degree. Comparing the two records, I think it's clear that if we're using the commonly accepted definition of experienece, Clinton has more of it.

You said: "If time in the Senate is the metric of relevance then surely we should go with one of the lifers, Biden or Dodd."

Of course, Biden and Dodd do have more experience than Clinton. However, experience is usually only brought up by the media when comparing Clinton directly to Obama, not to the rest of the field. I believe the concept operating here is a threshhold of experience necessary to execute the Presidency effectively.

You said: "Or is the term "experience" nothing more than an inuendo to race in America, and the inevitable "unelectability" of an African American."

No, experience is not a euphemism in this case - many voters have legitimate concerns about Obama's relatively recent exposure to the inside workings of Washington, and his idealism which some attribute to his inexperience. Some voters may also have concerns about his race, but that's a completely separate topic from experience.

Finally, you made a comparison between Clinton and Laura Bush, which I assume was to suggest that being First Lady shouldn't count as "experience." There is a difference between the role Hillary Clinton played in her husband's administration, and the role Laura Bush plays. Clinton was actually involved in policy during her husband's administration, whereas Laura Bush is not - if Hillary weren't so involved in policy, her opponents wouldn't be able to criticize her for her views on health care in Bill's first term.
Debate Round No. 1
nevrfaded

Con

It is not my central contention to make the claim that Obama has more experience, but rather that experience, considering these two individuals, ought not to be a decisive factor in the race.

What Clinton has shown herself to be most skilled at since emerging from her role as first lady is political acumen, rather than legislative foresight.

On the most important vote of her career, the decision to take this nation to war, she clearly demonstrated a lack of sound judgment. Clinton voted for H.J. 114; the national archive short title of which is: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, and continues to stand by her vote while others have conceded error, making the argument that it was not a vote for war, but rather to enable the President to continue diplomacy. This position has proven less than convincing for informed liberal voters.

In the minds of the liberal public there is a blurring of lines between the service of Bill Clinton, and the supposed role that Hilary played within the administration. When given the one task and responsibility you mentioned; that of pushing forward a healthcare agenda, she failed politically, from which point forward her role became more traditional. I.e. tours of the west wing of the white house.

Experience without vision has gotten this country nowhere; if by experience one means the ways of Washington. If by experience one means the conventional wisdom of our day, the type that nearly pushed us towards "world war III with Iran," before the intelligence community started talking directly to the American people. When George Walker Bush took office he surrounded himself with tons of experience, old timers, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Powell, ect, and the world has never been the same since.

In further reference to the race thing, the media has never seriously put to question Rudy Gilliani's "experience;" and I believe there is something to that. That one can go from dealing with the fire chief, and the city council member from Queens, to negotiating with Vladimir Putin over missile defense?
KevinL75

Pro

The topic of this debate was originally whether or not Hillary Clinton has more experience than Barack Obama - now it seems to have turned into a debate as to whether or not Hillary Clinton is the best Democratic candidate for President. I don't believe that your comments on Clinton's vote for the Iraq war are germane to the topic at hand, so I'll stick to the parts about whether or not experience should come into play in a decision between Obama and Clinton.

You said: "experience, considering these two individuals, ought not to be a decisive factor in the race", and "Experience without vision has gotten this country nowhere"

I certainly agree that experience without vision is less than ideal, but experience is a necessary prerequisite to being an effective President. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Hillary Clinton would be more effective in getting things done than Obama given her years of experience inside the White House and in Congress - she's in a unique position among all of the candidates, having been privy to both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

I'm not arguing that Obama is a better or worse candidate than Clinton, but I do disagree that experience shouldn't be taken into consideration, because institutional memory is an important part of governing, especially in a system as complex as the U.S. Government.

As far as the comparison between Giuliani and Obama, I have two things to say: (1) I think the media focuses more on Obama's inexperience because he has so few years in politics, whereas Giuliani has been an established political entity for quite some time, and (2) the issue is at the forefront of the Democratic primary because Hillary Clinton (Obama's main competition) prides herself on her experience, where as Giuliani doesn't have a similar dynamic with any other front-runner.
Debate Round No. 2
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
I agree. I think the topic shifts in the second round. But the PRO recovers well, and wins on both topics, especially the one that was supposed to matter. Akward debate.
Posted by KevinL75 9 years ago
KevinL75
I'd suggest better phrasing of the debate title the next time around - I thought we were going to be primarily comparing the records of Clinton and Obama and deciding who had the most experience, but it somehow turned into a general Clinton vs. Obama debate.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Mharman 8 months ago
Mharman
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Vote Placed by pcmbrown 8 years ago
pcmbrown
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by cscanzoni 9 years ago
cscanzoni
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by tommycorn 9 years ago
tommycorn
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by KevinL75 9 years ago
KevinL75
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by SacKings384 9 years ago
SacKings384
nevrfadedKevinL75Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30