Hillary Clinton (pro) or Bernie Sanders (con), who would be better for USA?
Debate Rounds (4)
This should be an easy debate for both of us. There's pleanty of research out there and pleanty of polarized opinions. Please use round one to accept the debate and to give a brief summary of your background, not to give your first points, then we'll get this show on the road. It seemed fair to make the con senator sanders, considering he's the outsider independent.
I am from Los Angeles, CA, currently a philosophy student, and have loved looking into politics ever since I was a wee lad. I am pro-Sanders and am voting for him in June.
Now who's "with her"?
My name is Julian, I am a 16 year old currently in High School still, but my excelling subjects are English and Debating (School competitions)
I am a Bernie Sanders supporter and I am usually against Clinton, but I'll still have a crack at pro.
Awesome, a taker. Thanks for responding. Let's use this round to build qualifications and merits, the next round to beat each other's candidate, then the final round for rebuttals and closing statements if that sounds good to you.
Sanders is not your typical old white man. A "first glance voter" might just see woman versus old white guy and think it's time for a woman to be president, which we really should have had long ago, however in actuality, merely being a woman does not make you better for the USA which is what we must prove.
Senator Sanders, as most are familiar, is an independent from Brooklyn. He was arrested for protesting segregated schools at the University of Chicago and was there for MLK's march on Washington and his I have a Dream speech. Sanders migrated to Burlington, Vermont where we was elected Mayor, eventually was elected to the House of Reps, and now serves as a Senator. He has made numerous speeches in the house and the senate, always defending the well-being of the average Joes and Joannes.
He began his campaign with an extremely low known percentage, but that has since skyrocketed. Some would even go so far as to say he "owns" the internet as his popularity is immense online. He has had several endorsements including expert economist Robert Reich, Russel Begaye, 8th President of the Navajo Nation, Ron Reagan son of President Reagan, Steve Wozniak co-founder of Apple, Danny Devito, Michael Moore, Miley Cyrus, and for some reason rapper Lil B.
He does not receive campaign finance from Super PACs and advocates for repealing "Citizens United" the ironic supreme court decision that allows for unlimited election spending from individuals and corporations. He fights for addressing the massive income inequality, constantly stating that the one tenth of one percent owning as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent is unjust. He is for clean energy, is the only candidate against fracking, and is often saying "the debate is over" and climate change is real. He wants to create jobs by rebuilding infrastructure, and wants to raise the minimum wage to "a living wage" of 15 dollars an hour. He ambitiously wants to create an aids-free generation in 2025, and wants to reform patent laws that are making medicine rediculously expensive and padding the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry. Pro-choice and a supporter of planned parenthood. Support the paycheck fairness act to combat the women's 79 cents to every dollar a man makes. He wants to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family leave, 2 weeks of paid vacation, and one week of paid sick days to American workers. He also wants to make healthcare a right and create a medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. He desires to expand social security, was against the TPP and NAFTA, voted against the war in Iraq predicting that it would become a quagmire, wants a tax on wall street speculation to pay for college tuition, which he wants to be free at all public universities, wants to hold all officers liable for illegal actions (which they currently are basically not) while demilitarizing police areas as they look more and more like standing armies, and more.
Phew, that's a mouthful. Oh yeah and here's how he outlines how he would pay for his proposals since many critics say that he would drive the USA bankrupt. https://berniesanders.com...
No other candidate could match her organizational capabilities and source of wisdom. Already proven self superior in both thought and intellect to any other candidate - Democrat or Republican. She is a strong person who perseveres in trying times, good characteristics for a role model. In addition to this, she is the spouse of a former president which would give her insight into the presidential decision making process.
Sexism is playing a major role in worldwide issues nowadays, and Hillary fights for Women's rights with vigor and perseverance. Both genders are to have the same rights as we are all human.
Bernie Sanders has too many skeletons in the closet.
He is a senile old fart reaching his time, although the 5 year difference between the two, Clinton is younger but it is scientifically proven that women on average live longer than men. If Sander's policies deepen the budget deficit for many years down the road, that could impact the bond market and creditors. Essentially, it could mean it would be more expensive to run the government, which could exacerbate any cost issues a Sanders budget might face.
Imagine the Wall Street Offensive
Wall Street probably wouldn't love a Sanders presidency, but he himself wouldn't mind. He has consistently cast the financial industry as the villain, blaming it for income inequality, political corruption and racism.
Looking good so far :)
Alright, here's the round where we bash each other's candidate, I wish you had not done so in the other round as I had detailed this in the second round argument
I would like to start with a nice video posted on a petition website, feel free to ignore the petition but do listen to the video as it details Clinton's many discrepancies. http://wontvotehillary.com...
Not only is Clinton a fake feminist using her gender to shoe herself in, effectively lying to all her feminist supporters just to leave them in the dust, she is actually nothing like a feminist at all. I want to talk you back many years, when Rodham was but a lawyer. It was 1975 when the 27 year old lawyer was on the defense of a man who raped and beat a 12 year old in Arkansas. Hillary admits to knowing that this man was guilty, stating in an interview that "He took a lie detector test. I had him take a polygraph, which he passed, which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs" as she holds back chuckles. She lied in court stating that the victim was "emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and engage in fantasizing" and stated, "I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body" which the victim claims was fabricated. She managed to scrap evidence that had the victims blood on the seat of the vehicle of which she was raped. She made the vitim go through numerous psych evaluations. The accused was jailed for two months on a plea bargain. The worst of this whole thing is that Hillary just DID NOT CARE, but found herself laughing at the whole thing in an interview. http://www.thedailybeast.com...
Bill clinton is a damn sex offender, okay? Hillary discredited, just as she did that 12 year old, all the women who were brave enough to come forward and accuse Bill as a rapist and sexual assailant.
Juanita Broaddrick, Eileen Wellstone, Elizabeth Ward Gracenm Regina Blakely, Kathleen Willey- Alleged rape by Bill Clinton
Kathleen Willey, Cristy Zercher - Sexual Assault by Bill Clinton
Cristy Zercher, Paula Jones, Carolyn Moffet - Unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, borderline sexual assault by Bill Clinton
Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Dolly Kyl Browning - Sexually pressured by Bill Clinton, Post incident character assault
A long time ago there was this Republican candidate, Barry Goldwater, who wanted to repeal the Civil Rights amendment. "I'm proud to have been a Goldwater girl" - Miss Clinton
NAFTA, TPP, other disastrous trade agreements killing US jobs and helping the largest corporations' wants? Oh yeah she was for them.
Remember the war in Iraq? Clinton voted YESSIR
Look through her emails on wikileaks, she maniuplates the media and has the New York Times/ Washington post in her pocket; https://wikileaks.org...
Remember Libya? Well Libya had this dictator who was going to undermine the value of currency by creating a gold-backed united African currency. She managed to persuade the UN that there were human rights violations ocurring, and she had the dictator assassinated which fueled the deaths of over 50,000 people.
"A newly-released Hilary Clinton email confirmed that the Obama administration has deliberately provoked the civil war in Syria to held Israel" oh yeah, and Google helped: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com...
Chelsea Clinton isn't Bill's daughter, it's probably Web Hubbel, Bill is sterile. Seriously, look it up.
She was on the board of Wal-Mart, and was against labor unions. You should listen to her speech.
Remember the investment company that admits to commiting fraud to the American people, Goldman Sachs? Well, they gave free money to her in the form of "speaking fees". Many other financial fat cats on Wall st. did the same. We don't even know if she gave the speeches to be honest. Oh, and she won't release the possibly nonexistent transcripts. Maybe she'll fabricate it.
Want to hear a coincidence? States with reported voter fraud, take Kentucky for example with 37 counties reporting voter fraud, are wins for guess who? Clinton.
The Clinton's had a hitman who openly admits to having killed people on command, look it up.
She and Bill both initially denied that Lewinsky, well, felt on some areas of Mister President. Couldn't do that after we found out it was completely true in a report that cost the taxpayers MILLIONS.
Want more bad stuff? Here's a compiled list of 25 things http://www.marketwatch.com...
Dear God, I'm just getting so disgusted writing this. There's a gigantic pit of awful things about this candidate, yet the media writes her off as a wonderful human being. Look more into it, and you can basically make the case that she's worse than Trump.
I have been disgusted appalled as America's answer to V.I Lenin continues to make strength in the polls. Your so called 'populist' movement is a bitch-slap to the Democratic establishment that has served us so well over the last few decades; and the idea of giving up on the theory of incremental progress for such a fundamental change makes me want to throw myself out of a window. I don't understand, this part bedazzles me: the mainstream media has done a wonderful job of showing exactly why and how Bernie's candidacy is flawed, but for some reason, either people won't listen to common sense or lack any at all.
I don't intend to insult anyone, but I believe Sander's constituency is entirely made up of aspirational nutjobs - mostly indolent, entitled, destitute, indebted millennials - who are oblivious of the fact that our political choices should be based on fear and cynicism. They need to get with the program, and fast. Maybe the New York Times and Washington Post messed up by highlighting the ludicrous nature of Bernie's candidacy one issue at a time, I won't make that mistake. I'm going to list them all, item by item, and lay waste to this pestilent communist and his dense apparatchiks.
Bernie is NOT electable.
How many times do we have to repeat this before it sticks in your stupid heads? And spare me the counter-arguments, because I already know what you're going to say: 'Hillary Clinton has a far worse approval rating, is abhorred by Independents, couldn't land a millennial voter if she could turn into an anime version of Kanye West and Gangnam-styled across America, isn't considered remotely trustworthy even by her own family and brethren; and is losing in every hypothetical match-up in the general election.
Let's begin with the last one. First off, you already know Hillary is going to gain on the Republicans once she passes Bernie the Bolshevik, even though her entire history in presidential elections is a steady narrative of dwindling support. Secondly, just imagine what's going to happen to Bernie when the GOP attack machine points out to Americans that he's probably a socialist. When that happens, forget about it. There's no way he could ever beat the Oompa Loompa genre of Hitler - who knows as much governing as the dead rodent he wears on his head - or the religious zealot who looks like a crappy caricature of Bela Lugosi drawn on a deflated leather sack, or the actual malfunctioning posing as the GOP's Obama.
You can't run a candidate with actual integrity against those guys. Are you nuts!? You need a real nitty gritty mud slinging spitfire like Clinton, who is somehow considered even more dishonest. She understands the trench warfare that wins elections. Because if there's one thing that pushes progressives to the ballot box, it's being disheartened by their own candidate.
I wouldn't worry about millennial voters either, in contempt of being critical to the party's general election success and we are gleefully declaring that they wouldn't support anyone but Bernie in November. Don't sweat it. Hillary's THIS close to understanding what they're all about. A few more wrongly placed steps and she'll have that coveted young demographic locked up.
Bernie's promises are a flying pig in cold hell.
Literally none of his so called 'democratic socialist' programs have ever been successfully implemented in any government in world history, except for all the other major nations in the modern world, and also America during our most prosperous period.
After the Nevada win, Hillary has all the momentum.
Look at this graph of national polls from the last year, an absolute tidal wave.
That's plenty of evidence, but if you're hungry for more, consider her resounding, emphatic win in Nevada, where she prevailed by five points in a state she led by 37 last July. Can you be more decisive than that? I think not.
This is an amazing debate so far, let's hope I didn't entirely dismantle your model and you still have something to say.
Swimwithcats forfeited this round.
Hillary has an unbreakable firewall of Latino voters.
Nobody really knows who came out on top, except that entrance polls say Bernie won, and a lot of media outlets are now rushing to muddy the waters. Even if she managed a tie, it's far less than her margin of victory against Obama in 2008, when she also claimed that Hispanic voters gave her a firewall.
The point is, the firewall did it's job. Think about it, dopes. If the firewall is on fire, then guess what ain't on fire? That's right: Everything beyond the firewall, whatever that might be. The firewall is on fire, but it's protecting stuff from being on fire. Why is it so hard for you to understand?
Every sing Bernie Sanders supporter is a sexist and a racist (this goes for myself)
Bernie Bros are a real thing. If you haven't read the articles, get with it. There was this one person on Twitter who complimented Hillary, and then someone running a fake GOP House of Representatives account said something sexist in response, and it spawned a chain of self-referential articles providing beyond a doubt that everyone who supports Bernie Sanders is a rampaging misogynist, including the fast majority of young women who chose him over Hillary, (ALL of whom, by the way, joined the Sanders camp because they wanted to hang out with boys, and are bound for a special place in hell when they die. Thanks, Gloria and Madeleine!)
Also, some of the people who received negative comments from anonymous Twitter accounts were not white, so his supporters are also racist.
One last important point: When his male supporters try to engage in political discussion with the goal of persuading others, it's aggressive mansplaining. And when his female supporters do it, it's aggressive womansplaining, or whitesplaining, or something. Basically, it all falls under the umbrella of 'explaining,' which is outrageously offensive to anyone exercising his/her god-given right to live in ignorance.
Great debate! May the best man win!
No votes have been placed for this debate.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.