The Instigator
kenito001
Pro (for)
Winning
40 Points
The Contender
upstreamedge
Con (against)
Losing
24 Points

Hillary Clinton will not win the Presidency of the United States

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,500 times Debate No: 1366
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (20)

 

kenito001

Pro

Hillary Clinton is the most overrated and unlikeable opponent in the 2008 Presidential Race. Her exposure to the American public since 1992 has fueled a Clinton hatred that reaches far past Bill. Her policies are far too liberal, she has been unable to reach out to the majority of moderates and independents, and Hillary's extremely high unfavorability rating will prevent her from ever winning the 2008 Presidency.
upstreamedge

Con

Well first of all I would like to attack the idea that Hillary Clinton is far more liberal than her Democratic opponents. If you look at the policy positions of the Democratic candidates you can see that they all agree on pretty much everything. The question among the Democrats is no longer WHAT but HOW and HOW MUCH. A good example of this is nationalized health care. All three candidates are in agreement that this policy is a good idea, but each have different plans on how to bring this about. Another point is the Iraq War, all three democrats want to end the Iraq war, and again the question becomes how.

Hillary Clinton certainly is not the most liberal candidate on this issue, as she does not support a unilateral withdrawal.
Second, although Hillary has high negative poll numbers her remarkable fund raising has shown that she is quite capable of raising support. Hillary Clinton does not poll as well among independents as Obama, however she still does well in mock national polls against Republican contenders. Her high numbers in the polls also show that she has support as well, she consistently polls with a double digit lead nationally, and in many key states like Michigan and California as well.

I conclude this statement by saying that Hillary Clinton's massive fund raising ability, tried and tested political machine, and her policy experience will be of great help in her primary election, they would also help her compete against any likely Republican nominee. She is not the nicest person, but being a d*** is a quality that served FDR, JFK, and LBJ quite well as they compelled Congress to bring about change. I think Hillary Clinton stands as good a chance as anyone at being the next president of the United States.
Debate Round No. 1
kenito001

Pro

Thank you for accepting the debate, upstreamedge.

TO ALL THOSE VOTING ON THIS DEBATE: Please read the arguments of the debate and vote on who you believe did the better job in arguing their respective side. If you are to vote only on which side you support personally, then all of this time is wasted for no good. It's a debate, not an opinion poll.

First, I will address the comment left on the debate:
i dont support hillary but you need your facts straight.
she is higly favorable.
she wouldnt be polling 2nd if she wasnt.
her policies are only liberal becuase
DERRRRR
she is a liberal!"
Hillary is an extremist liberal who has catered to the middle and conservative views during her years in the Senate.
Clinton's main voting issues are that she's pro-chioice, supports withdrawing troops from Iraq regardless of an accomplished timetable, promotes complete Universal Health Care, unlike the other candidates who at most support free health care for the poor, and so on. Hillary Clinton is relatively highly favorable, making her 1st or 2nd nationally, depending on which poll. Now, on to why she CANNOT win the Presidency, much less the nomination. This debate will be restricted to the Affirmative proving she cannot win the Presidency, while the Negative must prove that she will win both the nomination and the Presidency.

Hillary Clinton has the highest unfavorability rating of any candidate in the race, and has the highest unfavorability rating, anywhere from 45% to 50%, as cited by Gallup, Rasmussen, CNN, FOX News, and MSNBC. Unfavorability rating directly means that 45% to 50% refuse to vote for Clinton or do not see her as a high alternative to their favored candidate. The latest Rasmussen poll on January 4th in New Hampshire, following Obama's win in Iowa, puts him up 10 points over Clinton. The Iowa Democratic caucus exposed Clinton's main weakness, that is competing against Obama and Edwards when their votes are not split to other candidates Kucinich, Richardson, Biden, and Dodd. Only 9% of Iowa voters said that they were likely to have Clinton as a second choice candidate. Before redistribution of votes from candidates who do not reach the 15% threshold at the caucus, Clinton was in a close race with Obama for first place while Edwards was straggling behind in third place. After the redistribution, Obama took a resounding victory while even Edwards was able to surpass Clinton. Moving into New Hampshire, Obama carries the additional votes from candidates who have dropped out, former Clinton and Edwards supporters who view him as a winner, and many votes now available since Dodd and Biden dropped out of the race. Obama should be considered the favorite in NH, SC, giving him momentum into Super Tuesday where he can easily win the majority of the delegates. Experts predict that if Obama takes 2nd in NH and 1st in SC, a state in which almost half of its Democratic voters are African-American, he will almost certainly gain the Presidential nomination. So unless, at this point, Edwards is able to rally support to take away votes from Obama, then Obama will be the Democratic nominee in 2008.

Clinton's campaign appeals to the dedicated Democrat voters and females. Assuming she could gain 20% of female Republican voters, an amazing feat, Clinton would fail to gain the votes of independents and lose conservative to moderate Democrats. Clinton has been the target of the Conservative movement for over 2 years, creating the largest united base of any candidate for the Presidential election, in this case the anti-Hillary front.

"Well first of all I would like to attack the idea that Hillary Clinton is far more liberal than her Democratic opponents. If you look at the policy positions of the Democratic candidates you can see that they all agree on pretty much everything. The question among the Democrats is no longer WHAT but HOW and HOW MUCH. A good example of this is nationalized health care. All three candidates are in agreement that this policy is a good idea, but each have different plans on how to bring this about. Another point is the Iraq War, all three democrats want to end the Iraq war, and again the question becomes how."
I disagree, and assert that Clinton is just as liberal as her Democratic opponents. However, her key issues that attract voters are a strong stance on pro-choice and absolute Universal Health Care.

"Hillary Clinton certainly is not the most liberal candidate on this issue, as she does not support a unilateral withdrawal.
Second, although Hillary has high negative poll numbers her remarkable fund raising has shown that she is quite capable of raising support. Hillary Clinton does not poll as well among independents as Obama, however she still does well in mock national polls against Republican contenders. Her high numbers in the polls also show that she has support as well, she consistently polls with a double digit lead nationally, and in many key states like Michigan and California as well."
Clinton has so much money because
1) She brought in a lot of money to the race
2) Her supporters support her very much
The problem, however, is not how much your supporters support a candidate, but instead how many supporters there are. She has an established base of, let's say, 30% of Democratic voters. At least 60% of them will not support her. The only reason Obama has not pulled in front any quicker is because Edwards is still in the race.

Hillary Clinton is a very strong candidate. She has a very strong base. The problem is, as I will repeat, that she is hated by a majority of America. Her nomination will drive a lot of Democrats to vote Republican or third-party, and unless she is able to convince America that she isn't an over-the-top feminist, second coming of the anti-Christ, then she has no chance.

I agree with the points you present, however, most of America does not.

Thanks,

The Colonel
upstreamedge

Con

The question I think we are now talking about is that Hillary Clinton can not win the general election because of the degree to which she polarizes people (her high negatives). This is not true, and it as been proven to be not true as early as 2004 when Bush won a second term despite a high negative rating.
Debate Round No. 2
kenito001

Pro

"The question I think we are now talking about is that Hillary Clinton can not win the general election because of the degree to which she polarizes people (her high negatives). This is not true, and it as been proven to be not true as early as 2004 when Bush won a second term despite a high negative rating."
Kerry had just as high of a negative rating as Bush. None of Clinton's potential Democratic primary or Republican Presidential opponents have nearly as high of a polarization. I see your argument, however, you failed to consider John Kerry's own unfavorability.

Assuming Clinton loses the NH primary tonight, she is all but doomed to not even make it as far as winning the Democratic nomination. Real Clear Politics poll averages in NH currently stand with Obama leading by 8.3 points. NO nominee in the current era of primaries has ever lost the nomination after winning both NH and IA. Even past these two, SC is Obama's most favorable state, where the two post-Iowa polls give Obama an average lead of 16.0 points. The latest national poll conducted by Gallup has Obama and Clinton tied. He will gain even more momentum into Super Tuesday, only 4 weeks away, where voters will realized that Obama not only is a legitimate candidate but he will also be more of a household name.

Great debate, thanks for your time.

-The Colonel
upstreamedge

Con

If the question is winning the nomination, then I guess NH has shown us that it is still wide open. I really don't have any new points to add at this point, I will just reiterate that Hillary Clinton is no more divisive than Bush was four years ago, and she does beat the Republicans in mock polls.

Thanks for the debate!
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by hattopic 9 years ago
hattopic
did I say compared to other democrats? I meant compared to politicians on a global scale
Posted by hattopic 9 years ago
hattopic
Hillary Clinton is actually pretty conservative (compared to other democrats)
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
You do realize she took New Hampshire, right?
Posted by jevan 9 years ago
jevan
i dont support hillary but you need your facts straight.

she is higly favorable.

she wouldnt be polling 2nd if she wasnt.

her policies are only liberal becuase

DERRRRR

she is a liberal!
20 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by kenito001 8 years ago
kenito001
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by fightinirish1985 9 years ago
fightinirish1985
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by yoon172 9 years ago
yoon172
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by VoterBot 9 years ago
VoterBot
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by shaffaq0589 9 years ago
shaffaq0589
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by fightinirish1986 9 years ago
fightinirish1986
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by upstreamedge 9 years ago
upstreamedge
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Arjunk193 9 years ago
Arjunk193
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by txgopkid 9 years ago
txgopkid
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Devyn 9 years ago
Devyn
kenito001upstreamedgeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30