The Instigator
Warden123
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Josh_b
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

History is the best temporal thing to learn of

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/12/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 676 times Debate No: 45779
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

Warden123

Pro

History is the most important thing to learn, at least on thee temporal level. It defines our identity and stops us from being fundamentaally insane. Without History, there is no way to porgress.
Josh_b

Con

What a neat topic. I'll take Geography as the best temporal thing to learn of for the win.

History sounds very important, but the nature of where things are and where we are in relation to the things around means a great deal more to the day to day functionings of life.

Imagine that you are hungry and you don't know where the store is to buy food, or you don't know the migration patterns of the buffalo, what happens then? Do you wait for history to repeat itself, because if you do, you'll die of starvation.

If you've learned enough geography and you walk into a new town, you can likely find your way to the town center and find assistance, probably even a job if you are really good at knowing where things are.

God specifically warns us against moving things without the knowledge of others. He doesn't warn us about history. being able to manipulate the world around us is a kind of like a super power. Knowing and expecting to know where things are gives us comfort and security.

Obviously we would still progress with out knowing history. Look at animals. What history do they know? They know where to find feeding grounds and watering holes.

Geography is obviously a better temporal subject to learn.
Debate Round No. 1
Warden123

Pro

History- the best temporal thing to learn of.



This is because of several reasons- first, the fact that without history we cannot advance.


For me to advance this point, I must define what i mean by history.


Definition in question: History-everything and anything that happened in the past.

As told by our third grade teachers, we must learn from our mistakes. That is the only way we (as in the human race) gain any moral knowledge, or most knowledge of any value anywise. Is we do not learn that hitting one's self with a concrete block, will hurt, we will do it over and over again, expecting a different result.

Ah. And that brings me to my next point, for which I need to define Insanity.

Insanity- doing the same action over and over again, expecting a different result.

Because we cannot learn from mistakes (or for that manner, succeses) we will repeat our mistakes, expecting to advance.


In that case, it will mean we are insane. In fact, we fit the definition perfectly.


In the case that we do succeed, we would not be able to replicate it. We could never learn from our succeses and perform the process again, because it would not be in our minds. It would simply be something that we did, like take a crap or read a book. Except, we gained nothing but what the action produced.


I urge you to vote that history is the most important temporal thing one can learn of.
Josh_b

Con

In what way can we advance through history? Time is moving forward. We must advance through the future.

If you know anything and everything that happened in the past, can you be sure of where it happened without geography.

Time is linear, geography is multidimensional. Anything that is multidimensional must be created through geography. (the knee bone is connected to the shin bone)

Knowing history as told by our third grade teachers is to have knowledge without wisdom. If we continue to do the things that we know are successful, we will not be considered insane, but we will be considered cultured.

The human understanding of Geo-spatial relationships is what allowed Columbus to discover the Americas. It is what allowed men to land on the moon. It is what will allow men to walk on mars.

Knowing geography is what keeps us from crapping on ourselves. Otherwise you wouldn't know your a44 from a hole in the ground.

The first thing a baby learns is their ability to manipulate their environment. Geography is obviously a better temporal thing to learn because it matters to survival of our species.
Debate Round No. 2
Warden123

Pro

Alright. Let me be more specific. By 'advance' I meant advance technologically. We cannot repeat anything without learning history. we would still go forward through times, as mindless fools, wishing god had never created us. Ah, but wait. Most likely we could not wish, as we exist only in the moment and naught else. Only in a specific point in time would we exist, as truly linear creatures. (Many would argue that we are truly linear creatures, but I say that our memories make us not so.)


Our third grade teachers did not tell us specifically to learn history(well, perhaps some did, but that was not my point) but to learn from our mistakes. That is crucial for our survival.


As I said before, we cannot replicate it, therefore we cannot do it more. Manufacturing would be impossible, as would technological advancement. If a random scientist creates an antimatter device, but he lost it. That would be terrible, as he would never be able to learn from his success, and therefore replicate it. He would not know how.


In your first post you stated that animals did just fine without history. They crap they eat they sleep then crap once more. Personally, I like the computer I'm typing on, the chair I'm sitting in, the bread I just ate, and the clothes I'm wearing. Without history, none of this would be possible. No one could learn anything. After all, where is knowledge stored? In memories. And what are memories but manifestations of the past? We could not learn from our memories, we would never do anything. We would know nothing, have nothing, feel nothing, and indeed, be nothing. Our very existence and identity depends on the fact of our memories. Our individuality, our creativity, our knowledge, all these, as well.


Finally, I would like to say that we are history. It is the story of us, it is what defines us. Learning history fills one of the wisest commands I have ever heard, one that is repeated by most every God, the bible, the Oracle of Delphi, and many philosophers- Know Thyself. By learning history, we learn not only of our identity and heritage, but our limits, our humanity, and desires. We learn what is, what is not, all of such things.

I see your argument of why geography is important, as it allows us to manipulate our surroundings. But without history, without memory, we can never learn how to manipulate them. Even if we did, it would come to naught, as we could never do it again. A tribesman of an ancient Celtic tribe needs to find some wood for a campfire, in order to stay alive. Geography would allow him to find it, as he learned it and knows it is there, true. Not only is that knowledge part of his memory, however, which is connected to history, but his tribe would not exist, as none would no one from another, and cohesion would be impossible, but the technology for fire would not exist, and there would be a high probability he wouldn't, either, as people wouldn't survive without history and learning from our mistakes. As said before, we'd do the same mistakes over and over again, never learning, never stopping. We may come upon a success once in a while, but there's no guarantee that we will (or can) do it again.

To me, that is significantly more important than knowing where to buy food. First, one has to develop technology to make that food. A man has to do that, one who learned from his mistakes and successes, one who reached and sifted throughout his memories to find the knowledge and to apply it. All of this, this world, this society, this everything, ties back to history. History is the beginning of humanity, and the end, and all that is in between.
Josh_b

Con

Maybe I just didn't see your definition of temporal, but my understanding was that the thing you are learning is somehow abstract like math, or ancient history, or in my case geography. I've been applying it in the sense that if you knew abstract concepts of geography it would be far more beneficial than knowing abstract history.

In this round, you are just talking about memories. According to your argument, If you remember what you did five minutes ago, you are learning history. But I say that people are inventive, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're hungry and come up with a new way to resolve that hunger. I'll hope that you have watched 50 first dates and can see where I'm going with this. The girl woke up every morning repeated the same actions over and over in new and inventive ways. The video that was made for her outlined where she was, and why she was there, so that even with a blank memory, she could survive with minimal disorientation.

In this round you equate knowing history to having memory, which is something entirely different altogether. We can't even to begin to learn anything temporally if we don't have memory of our own actions. Having a memory is a necessity for learning temporally. Even animals have memories, but we weren't originally talking about how important it is for us to remember. We are talking about learning new things; maybe even learning things that we haven't experienced.

Learning is the keyword in this debate. Without memory, learning is impossible. Whether it is history, or geography, having a memory is key factor that indicates the ability to learn. I agree that we must learn. I just believe as you agree that abstract geography is a far better temporal thing to learn than abstract history.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Josh_b 3 years ago
Josh_b
it sucks that no one voted on this. It was a good match up.
Posted by Warden123 3 years ago
Warden123
I as well
Posted by Josh_b 3 years ago
Josh_b
Nice debate. I look forward to seeing you around.
Posted by Warden123 3 years ago
Warden123
What I mean by temporal is not relating to god or religious matters. If God is real, and I believe him to be, what could be more important?
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
Did I mention Bias?
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
Also history repeats itself! Almost becoming self fulfilled prophecy!
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
What about manipulated history, "like white washing"! Or the history of ego. Where man can not deal with the fact that he will die. So he immortalizes himself in "history"! This is how legends and folklore become "history"!
Posted by VaLoR 3 years ago
VaLoR
@kbub, not necessarily. It depends on how it is defined. Secular interests are not necessarily exclusive to the lessons of history.
Posted by kbub 3 years ago
kbub
Isn't history the only thing we can learn on the "temporal level?"
Posted by VaLoR 3 years ago
VaLoR
Please define what you mean by "temporal."
No votes have been placed for this debate.