The Instigator
Zetsubou
Pro (for)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
Akemi_Loli_Mokoto
Con (against)
Losing
17 Points

(History suggests) Muslims have killed more than Christians in the name of their god.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/11/2010 Category: Society
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 13,288 times Debate No: 12033
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (153)
Votes (10)

 

Zetsubou

Pro

(History suggests) Muslims have killed more than Christians in the name of their god.

This debate is to see if Muslims have killed more people in the name of their religion than Christians. My arguments will be displayed in Round two, a way of reliving pressure when Con accepts a the debate. Expect anyone who takes this to have a good knowledge of the History of Islam and Christianity to modern day, also the History the Middle East and North Africa, Byzantium, Coptic Christianity (Patriarch of Alexandria) and military conflicts there.

>>Definitions<<
Muslim - an adherent of Islam [Islam - the religious faith of Muslims including belief in Allah as the sole deity and in Muhammad as his prophet]

Christian - one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Kill - to deprive of life : to cause the death of.

From: [http://www.merriam-webster.com......]

>>Concepts<<

In this debate it's important that you understand what qualifies as murder in the name of a God. The following criteria must be fulfilled:

-They direct reasoning for that murder must relate to a god. IG a Hezbollah(party of god) militias fighting a war against Israeli armies.
-If asked the primary reason of that person must be I did for God, Country and God is acceptable, but with the notion of "what is for God" and what "God supports(God on our side)". So the Crusades would count but not the war for Jenkin's Ear.
-It doesn't matter if the murder is justified, it still counts.
-That murder must be committed by a person of that of that religion.
-The event of the murders must have taken place according to Historical body; Citation would be needed from a valid source.
-The murder victim can be anyone not necessarily a Muslim or Christian, so an executed heretic or a Jew would skill at to the kill count.
-Other rules may exist but must be assumed to a reasonable doubt.

For con to win he must Reason that Christians have killed more people than Muslims for their god. He can only do so by proposing acts of religious murder by Christian people and questioning the acts I propose. The murders must fulfill the criteria, if either one of us thinks it does otherwise it's their obligation to say why in the following round(with 2 rounds it would be harder).

=================================================================

I will present my case and allegations in round 2.
Akemi_Loli_Mokoto

Con

This is outrageous. My Opponent believes basically Muslims are all killers. Which one can deprive from his text. and I'd like to be the one who tells him, he is full of it. Most Muslims are good. Not bad or killers. If anything, Christians are worse then Muslims all together. Just look at the US. It claims to be a Christian nation but yet still has one of the highest murder incidents. Christian Extremism exist in 7 nations. In the USA one of the several extremist are the KKK. So lets look first at the KKK. How many have the KKK Killed?

I'll divide the answer into several sections
Reconstruction 1st Klan (1865-1877)
1500 estimated by the Tuskegee Institute
1200 blacks 300 whites
100-200 killed in South Carolina
150 Florida

The rest mostly killed during black voting in Louisiana in the 1868 US Presidential Election
The Klan was also partially involved in the Colfax Massacre
Nadir 2nd Klan ( 1915 - 1944)
416
Klan was frequently involved in lynching, killed mostly blacks in this era
Murdered Blacks returning from WW1
Killed Leo Frank (Jewish White)
Killed 6 blacks attempting to vote in Orange County Florida
Civil Rights 3rd Klan (1954-1968)
15 people (13 black)
These murders are well known and include, but are not limited to
1963 murder Medgar Evers
1963 16th street baptist church bombing
1964 Mississippi Burning
1965 Viola Luizo Shooting
1966 Vernon Dahmer Killing
Many of these murders were prosecuted ... in the 90s and 2000s
David Duke 4th Klan
1979 Greensboro Massacre 5 killed
5th Klan
1981 Lynching Michael Donald
Klan member electrocuted
Total 1937
Note these are only those killed. Hundreds of thousands of people were injured or intimidated by the Klan
+ Although the Klan hadn't been formed, Nathan Bedford Forrest, leader of the first Klan committed this atrocity
Fort Pillow Massacre 1864 277 blacks

Case Closed.
Debate Round No. 1
Zetsubou

Pro

Thank you,

All murders attributed to KKK are accepted.

Also thanks again to Con for disgusting and incorrect ad ad hominem introduction. It's addressed in the comments area. Islamic "extremism" exists in over half of the countries in the world, most of Africa, every country in the Middle East, South and South East Asia, formerly China, North America above Guatemala, South America has a low but increasing number due to Palestinian Diaspora[Muammar Qaddafi, Brazil and Argentina], Australia and Far Eastern or Far Western Europe. Areas without any bases of Islamic groups or a Militant Islamic national Front are Polynesia, Antarctica and Central Eastern Europe.

>>>Allegations<<<
These are my Allegations of deaths caused by Muslims, my current approx total is 20 to 30 million. Below is some of this number. Round One - Christianity? Martyrism or Suicidal Insolence.

>>Deaths caused by Holy Jihad in response to the Crusades. Approximate Casualties for major skirmishes.
Crusades - Christian Casualties 2,000,000 according to Charles Mackay, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.[Admit it, you love the name too]

First Crusade - 300,000 Europeans killed at Battle of Nice[Nicea]

Second Crusade
Siege of Christian Tiberias: 30,000 Christians killed

Third Crusade[Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,]
Fall of Christian Antioch: 17,000 massacred.
First Sieges and Battles of Acre (1289-91) - 10,000/25,000 Christian casualties.
Second Christians killed after fall of Christian Acre all Christian settlers (1291) - 100,000
Battle of Arsuf (1191) - 700/20,000 Christian casualties.
Battle of Jaffa (1192) - 400???/2134 Christian casualties. Then 20,000 Christians massacred in total in following years (1192 to 1197)[Catholic Encyclopedia]

Children's Crusade
50,000(1212) [James Trager, The People's Chronology (1992)]

The "Last" Crusade – Nicopolis Failed Crusade
Several Skirmishes and the Sedge of Nicopolis, Christian exucited POW, 300 survivers. 16,000 Crusader Army [David Nicholle 1999]

*In fact the dead Crusaders probably numbered some 16,000 men. Traditional Turkish sources give the number of Ottoman troops as 10,000 but when their Balkans vassals were included they may have numbered around 15,000.

>> Mongol and Later Eastern Muslims<<
Total Christian Deaths by Genghiz Khan and Hulaku Khan's - Jihad Campaigns(1214-1258)* Massacres 6million Christians and 4million die as martyrs.

* Genghiz Khan's Jihad Campaigns and Political Campaigns, the Jihadist ones are determined according to David Barrett by how they where campaigned. Genghiz Khan's total indiscriminate massacres total to over 30Million, 75% of the Mongol's 40Million Murders. Source for Religious Martyrs by David Barrett. Mongol Murders are the worst followed by WWII and Chinese Civil War and the deaths by Mao Zedong.

>>Miscellaneous Deaths.
Christian Martyr deaths at the hands of - Muslims 9,121,000 - 14,120, 000*[ http://gem-werc.org...] by World Christian Encyclopaedia same source as Britannica and the World Almanac.

Uncounted as of now.

*More have died at the hands of "atheists"[31mil - Soviet and Nazi count]. Other Lesser Christian deaths are at the hands of Fellow Christians, Ethnoreligionists, Mahayana Buddhists and Hindu's.

>>>Sources<<<
Major Sources
Death Tolls for Wars, Massacres and Atrocities Before the 20th Century: http://users.erols.com... (Anti Christian Bias)

>>>Totals<<<
Christianity - 1937 (1937)
Islam - 0(12,000,000)
Based on: Religion ()

Part two, Modern Jihad, the Imperalist theocratic Caliph and the bloody Successors to Muhammad.
Akemi_Loli_Mokoto

Con

I don't read the comments thanks anyway, captain obvious. And I have nothing more to say. The Evidence is right there. Cant dispute it. You win.
Debate Round No. 2
Zetsubou

Pro

Can I assume that's a forfeit by Con?
Does Con accept the resolution and all 12,000,000 deaths?

I will not add any more kills to the List because I hope to do this debate again.

Extend all arguments,
Vote Pro.

Thank you.

>>>Totals<<<
Christianity - 1937 (1937)
Islam - 0(12,000,000)
Based on: Religion ()
Akemi_Loli_Mokoto

Con

I have given up. I dont see any reason to try and open a new debate on this issue, when its obvious your right and any person who is willing to debate this again is nuts. Evidence supports your side and im man enough to admit defeat. Congrats.
Debate Round No. 3
Zetsubou

Pro

Thanks for being mature, I wish I can say more for others. I meant to do this debate with others who aren't you.

Con forfeit, vote Pro.

Just keep posting anything, just don't click forfeit.

-
-
-

So why didn't you try more, there was the Crusades, witch trials, Jews and Muslim deaths just for starters.
Akemi_Loli_Mokoto

Con

My hands are up! Extremist Muslims have killed more people. I don't know about any other religions...let me change that, I don't CARE about any religions really.
Debate Round No. 4
Zetsubou

Pro

Lol ok, but this topic is about People not Religion hence, Society not Religion topic.

No more allegations round 5.
Akemi_Loli_Mokoto

Con

Akemi_Loli_Mokoto forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
153 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Archtype14 2 months ago
Archtype14
First I want everyone to know that Catholics ARE Christians!! There are many denominations of Christianity. For example - Jehovahs Witnesses. I also want to share with you guys a good source for how many people Christians have killed that has a lot more historical references that can most likely compare to the Muslims killing in the name of their God. Check it out!! ( http://www.truthbeknown.com...). The author even sourced his references to do your own research into it. I hope this helps and adds to context of the debate, as I see it's still sort of going on here in the comment section. I really don't care who killed the most in the name of their religion. It all needs to stop.....period. There's no justification in any killing ANYONE in this manner or killing them at all for that matter. #IJS
Posted by Zetsubou 3 years ago
Zetsubou
Catholics are Christian. They are the leading Christian denomination. Catholics(+History) aren't a bad as you think.
Posted by jsjsonify 3 years ago
jsjsonify
I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this. I would like to set the record straight for any of you who might be confused. The "Christian" crusades were lead by Catholics, not Christians. There is a difference! Not to mention the fact that they killed Christians right along with everyone else who didn't follow after the pope. As a Christian, my skin crawls when I hear this incident mentioned with such a title. It should have been deemed the Catholic Crusades. By the way, I voted "Pro".
Posted by Atheism 4 years ago
Atheism
School, CN? You think too highly of him! -Lol, I'm being mean, but I'm like that when I'm tired. And I'm always tired.-
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 4 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
You have yet to outline your argument for a Gnostic deity.
You have yet to outline your argument for your views on homosexuality.

Both concepts have been presented in only a superficial manner, you refuse to actually engage in anything of substance or logic. I dread to think what sort of school you go to.
Posted by Atheism 4 years ago
Atheism
Zet, its a theory. Apparently, you didn't read it quite well enough. I stated that black holes may contain different universes in and of themselves, containing different natural laws. As to being baseless, there was no evidence against it either, therefore you'd have to rationally be agnostic to it. And, its not entirely baseless. For example, there is the argument that the things ingested by the black hole come to form a different universe. We still don't know everything about black holes, so this is logically valid.
Posted by Zetsubou 4 years ago
Zetsubou
???? Ok...

1)Gnostic
On Atheism third day on the site me and him had a debate on the strength of atheism. I said I is reasonable to believe in the Primum movens. He rebutted with the weirdest sh-t ever. Black wholes spit matter, he gave me no evidence as to why and I even looked up the topic myself. Another common rebuttal I found on the forums is the acceptance of my idea but the belif that the Primum movens isn't a god.

If you disagree you can always follow my debate with PCP. It's finished but I won't start until the end of my June exams.

2) Homosexuality, lmao!!
I gave my case and Lwerd said later. 100% ignorant to logic right? Of course I was. I also had a debate with Vi and belle a month back. This debate was with the postulate that homosexuality is biological. It ended because we disagreed on the value of pointless genes. I'll still redo it however.

If you still disagree please source my ignorance, sir.
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 4 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
Gnostic God.
Homosexuality.

Case closed really.
Posted by Zetsubou 4 years ago
Zetsubou
Basically.

Your evidence doesn't fit your assertion.

Nice try.
Posted by Zetsubou 4 years ago
Zetsubou
I admitted that mistake. And that is ignorance to knowledge not ignorance to reason.

You called: "you're too stupid to be corrected"

You called me bigoted to reason. You have no ground to make that assertion.
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