The Instigator
JamesCroft
Pro (for)
The Contender
jreslan
Con (against)

Hitler Hated Christianity

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/25/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 378 times Debate No: 106128
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

JamesCroft

Pro

I will be arguing that Adolf Hitler hated Christianity.

Rules:
1. CON will argue that Hitler did not hate Christianity.
2. All claims must have citations.

Good luck!
jreslan

Con

"In this hour I would ask of the Lord God only this: that He would give His blessing to our work, and that He may ever give us the courage to do the right. I am convinced that men who are created by God should live in accordance with the will of the Almighty. No man can fashion world history unless upon his purpose and his powers there rests the blessings of this Providence", Hitler says in 1939 at his grand speech in East Berlin.
I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE THAT: I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN, JUST SAYING THAT BEFORE WE START
That may sound like an ideal leader, but that speech was given in 1937 by the Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler. In his speeches, he challenged people to love their neighbors, to care for the poor and sick, and to take a stand against violence.
Hitler was Christian and burned and killed Jews there is proof he went to church and prayed to God. Those who say that Hitler was an atheist or non Christian is false because he supported Christians during the holocaust, and usually American media, like CNN lie about things related to the Nazis like saying he isn't Christian, just to not make other Christians look bad (not saying to thing they are bad, but it's a fact). To end this, some people say he wasn't any religion but followed Christianity, but either way he didn't hate christianity. One more thing to add, you aren't specifying what you mean by hate... what do you mean hate? He despised Jews and only Jews, I need proof. I now close my first argument. Thanks!
Debate Round No. 1
JamesCroft

Pro

1. My definition of Hate is the same as the dictionary: "to feel intense or passionate dislike for (x)" [1] And as you are about to see NO he didn't only hate Jews.

2. Your quote is extremely misleading, in fact, that was Hitler's intention: "Hitler, attempting to appeal to the German masses during his political campaign and leadership, sometimes made declarations in support of religion and against atheism"[however] the wide consensus of historians considers him to have been irreligious and anti-Christian." [2] This is further confirmed when we look at Hitlers actions against the church, Clergymen teachers were removed from virtually all state schools. [3] Priests were frequently denounced, arrested and sent to concentration camps. [4] "Backed by Hitler"the Nazi regime intended to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists" [5] The"Nuremberg Trials"concerning the Nazi persecution of the churches, the American"Office of Strategic Services (a forerunner to the CIA) compiled a report entitled "The Nazi Master Plan" which examined the Nazi persecution of the churches and found that the Hitler regime had a plan to subvert and destroy German Christianity. [6]

In Hitler's own words: "Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation." [7]

Sounds like the next Billy Graham!

[1] https://www.google.com...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org...'s_policies_towards_religion
[3] Richard Overy;"The Third Reich, A Chronicle; Quercus; 2010; p.157
[4] Paul Berben; Dachau: The Official History 1933"1945; Norfolk Press; London; 1975;"ISBN"0-85211-009-X; pp. 142
[5] William Shirer;"Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany, p. 240
[6] http://www.nytimes.com...
[7] Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 144
jreslan

Con

Despite how often Christian apologists try to argue that Adolf Hitler is an example of the evil caused by atheism and secularism, the truth is that Hitler often proclaimed his own Christianity, how much he valued Christianity, how important Christianity was to his life, and even how much he was personally inspired by Jesus - his "Lord and Savior." Like many German Christians of the time, however, Hitler saw Jesus Christ in a very different light from what is normally the case.

So that would still mean he was a Christian, even if he only followed their beliefs and rules, and anyways Christianity has changed a lot, and isn't very vivid. God has brought it into a perfect state and people had to change it. How much worse could it get? The war with the Nazis had nothing to do with religion for your information. Your proofs aren't very understandable, which you haven't shown proper evidences that he wasn't a Christian, even when you said: "Hitler has said that: Christianity is an invention of sick brains", I looked on all the websites you put and it does say that but those webs do not look very trustworthy. But back to the point now, when you said Hitler tried to remove clergymen from churches, and the reason being is because he wanted to remove them and add clergymen that fit HIS views of Christianity and create his own church under his own rule at that time in Nazi Germany.

Their oddest religious belief was a denial of the Jewishness of Jesus, but even today there are Christians in Germany who object when Jesus' Jewishness is focused upon. Jesus is not very well known along Jewism and Moses would be their prophet not Jesus. That is a very strong I point in my opinion as it shows that Hitler followed Christianity and their beliefs of course.

The first, of course, is the anti-Semitism. While Christians in America today might find this bizarre, it really wasn't out of place in early 20th century Germany among conservative, moderate, and even liberal Christians. Nazi Christians didn"t abandon basic Christian doctrines, like the divinity of Jesus.
I now close my second argument. Note: Your sources are mostly false and untrusted, and secondly your arguments don't make sense at all and are completely wrong, therefore I can't understand it, I also can't wrap my head around what you're saying that Hitler was atheist, since he was religious he couldn't be an atheist, and the last thing is that I really felt that your arguments weren't backed very well. That's it thanks!

[1] https://www.thoughtco.com...
[2] http://www.cbn.com...
[3] http://www.annefrank.org...
Debate Round No. 2
JamesCroft

Pro

1. I"m still waiting for my opponent to refute a single claim I just made. Instead, all my opponent has done is further prove his lack of knowledge on historical events in saying: "Your sources are mostly false and untrusted"your arguments don't make sense at all and are completely wrong"I can't understand it" lucky for you, I do understand it.
The Hitler quote I cited comes from "Hitler"s Table Talk" [1] which is overwhelmingly accepted and cited by historians like Sir Ian Kershaw (of the university of Sheffield) [2] Sir Richard J. Evans (Regius professor of history at the university of Cambridge) [3] Historian Michael Burleigh (Distinguished research professor in modern history at the University of Cardiff) [4] Historian William L. Shirer (Who"s been cited in scholarly works for over 50 years!) [5] The list goes on..

2. You completely ignored The"Nuremberg Trials"concerning the Nazi persecution of the churches! "The American"Office of Strategic Services (a forerunner to the CIA) compiled a report entitled "The Nazi Master Plan" which examined the Nazi persecution of the churches and found that the Hitler regime had a plan to subvert and DESTROY German Christianity." [6]

3. You say "Hitler tried to remove clergymen from churches"the reason being is because he wanted to remove them and add clergymen that fit HIS views of Christianity and create his own church under his own rule at that time in Nazi Germany" This is absolute nonsense! Hitler said "So it"s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that"s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic." [7]

4. You claim I said: "you're saying that Hitler was atheist"he was religious he couldn't be an atheist"your arguments weren't backed very well" I never said that, and you just committed a straw man fallacy.

5. You say "Hitler often proclaimed his own Christianity"how important Christianity was to his life" Hitler himself told confidants that his reluctance to make public attacks on the Church was not a matter of principle, but a pragmatic political move. [8] In his private diaries, Joseph Goebbels (Third Reich minister) wrote in April 1941 that though Hitler was "a fierce opponent" of the Vatican and Christianity, "he forbids me to leave the church. For tactical reasons." [9]

6. I was going to write the closing remarks myself but after reading my opponents citations, specifically the 2nd citation (I"m assuming he didn"t read it) this paragraph really stuck out to me"

"So if Hitler wasn"t a Christian himself, why did he go to so much trouble to win the support of the Church?""
As one author put it, he knew Christians would interfere with his plans if they were not hoodwinked first.
What you won"t hear in history class is that Hitler WASN'T just out to eliminate JEWS: he wanted to get rid of CHRISTIANITY as well." [10]

Thank you all! It's been awesome!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] http://www.nytimes.com...
[7] Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 59
[8] Ian Kershaw;"Hitler: a Biography; Norton; 2008 ed; pp. 295"297
[9] Fred Taylor Translation; The Goebbels Diaries 1939"41; Hamish Hamilton Ltd; London; 1982;"ISBN"0-241-10893-4; p.340
[10] http://www.cbn.com...
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by DrCereal 6 months ago
DrCereal
What an interesting specimen.
Posted by jreslan 6 months ago
jreslan
Again, I'm not a Christian...
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