The Instigator
AsianGenius
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
KatieKat99
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Hitler has other attributes besides his racism than should be considered more often

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
AsianGenius
Voting Style: Judge Point System: Select Winner
Started: 10/5/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,195 times Debate No: 62656
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

AsianGenius

Pro

Many people associate Hitler with being a 'racist bastard' but he has done many other things that should be regarded as noteworthy and many even praised for. For example during the few years before the WW2 he brought germans off the streets and into offices. Death rates declined. Literacy rates increased. Fewer babies died of disease. By 1939 Germany thanks to Hitler's leadership Germany had paid back 90% of its debt, removed france's poisonous tithes on germany's people industries, and defeated the much hated treaty of versailess. He also sent soldiers into Spain to prevent them from falling into a Communist dictatorship just like America did in Vietnem but cared enough about the welfare of Spanish people to save them from the red threat rather than abondoning them like the Americans did to the vietnamese. They also helped Hungarians and romanians fend off Soviet attacks, drew off the pressure on Finaland from Soviet attacks and reinforced Iraqians in their struggle against a British tyranny. Hitler also improved Germany enough from being a war torn and bombed country with riots all over to a united country that would win most gold, silver and bronze medals. Let's not forget when Health care improves fewer people die so Hitler in fact saved lives and that should not be disregarded.

The focus of this debate is whether or not Hitler was more than his 'racist' policies. Pro/I will be argueing for there was more to him and Con will say he was only about being racist. No exceptions, if you want argue other stuff then do so in comments. Mentioning arguments and accusations other than those I just mentioned will reslut in lost/forfeiture. By accepting this debate you agree to abide by all the rules!!
KatieKat99

Con

For years before Adolf Hitler became chancellor of Germany, he was obsessed with the idea of race. In his speeches and writings, Hitler spread his beliefs about racial "purity" and in the superiority of the "Germanic race""what he called an Aryan "master race." If one were to go through and actually look at the ligature that he wrote one would see that it was concerned with nothing more then the extermination and alienation of races he deemed inferior. For Hitler, the ideal "Aryan" was blond, blue-eyed, and tall. He was convinced that there could be no "pure" world without certain people exterminated from it. I would like to close my opening statements with a brief definition of the word racist. A person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others. I leave you all with that to think about and hope for an enlightening and educational debate today.
Debate Round No. 1
AsianGenius

Pro

In 1914-1918 Hitler found a divine cause in his life which would take him away from his life as a painter. He volunteered to join the German army in WW1 hoping to contribute to the victory of Germany and the german people. During this time he developed a strong loyalty to the german people and the german nation and would repeatedly risk his life on the battle field heroically delivering important messages across the battlefield. When Germany lost the war he was very grieved and sought to bring it to its former glory.

so in fact before he became chancellor he was obsessed with bringing Germany back to glory and that was his true goal. Being 'racist' was a smaller part of that larger goal of protecting Germany.


and any racism commited was for the higher goal of protecting Germany rather than to be racist just for the purpose of being racist. Also I'd like to point out jews are not a race but a religious group. Thus anything done against jews was not racist but religicist. Communists like jews are not a race but instead an evil political party so according to the definition of race given, anything hitler did against jews and communists shows he made actions that did not inolve race.

His actions against marxism has nothing to do with race since any race can be communist.
So therefore attacking Jews and Communists are non racist actions.

In conclusion, Hitler's higher goal was to bring Back germany to glory. Establishing aryans as the master race and jews as the hated religion and communists as the hated party would unite germany so that germany could achieve it's higher goals but this in and of itself was the higher goal. Jews are not a race but a religious group so any persecution against them shows he was more than racist. Communists are people of a political party so likewise actions against them are not racist and when hitler takes actions against jews and communists this shows he is doing nonracist stuff and thus more than just being a 'racist' bastard.
KatieKat99

Con

Ok so to start with so this isn't confusing for anyone to read heres a brief road map:

On case (essentially refutations to pros arguments)
1. Divine cause in life/ protection of Germany
2. Religionist, communist, and philosphyist not racist

Off case (building of the con arguments)
1. The consideration of culture
2. Fruit of the poison tree

ON CASE ARGUMENTS:

1.Divine purpose:
Ok so what my opponent has presented here can basically be summed up in about a sentence or two (Im not trying to misrepresent or simplify the argument this is only meant to clarify). Hitler attempted to exterminate multiple racial/ethinc groups to protect Germany and the racism was only an "underlying' piece of this what they claim to be a large puzzle. We can see that this simply is not true through numerous lenses. The first and most important is historical interoperation. If we look back at all of the actions that Hitler took the majority of them were for racist reasons meaning the reasons that he reaped many of the befits from his actions is because he was racist to begin with so if you boil it all down he is really nothing more then a racist. If we can just turn our eyes toward a few of hitlers own quotes about saving Germany for a second
"Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice."
Adolf Hitler
"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."
Adolf Hitler
He was all about establishing new racially pure country. It had nothing to do with actual wanting for Germany to be more powerful it had everything to do with that he was willing to d anything to make it seem like he wasn"t trying to exterminate an entire race.

2. Religionist, Philosphist, and communist hater not racist
So My opponent has tried to claim here that being jewish is not a race they even have the audacity to sight the JewFaq.org. The appalling part of this is, that the quote my opponent is using here is completely out of context. The author is simply trying to state theta jews dontt refer to them selves as a racial group BECAUSE of the awful memories and connotations with the holocaust that it brings up. "The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of Nazi Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.�(2)literally this states that Hitler thought the Jewish people were in fact race thus he was being a livid racist when he exterminate them. If you still don't buy that quote heres one from one of hitlers most famous books Mein Kampf "The Jew has always been a people with definite racial characteristics and never a religion.(1) Therefore it was a racial motivated act to exterminate them it really had nothing to do with protection that was all part of the propaganda. Ok so the next piece of this argument was basically that the actions that he took against communists and against Marxists were not racially based whatsoever. So theres a basic flaw in this kind of argumentation it basically relies upon the assumption that hitler was not in fact racist whatsoever which even my opponent has cons cite dot that he was a racist and did take some pretty serious actions based on his rascism. That being said my opponent is trying to claim that he may have been racist but he was more then racist this leads me directly to one of own contentions which i have tag lined as fruit of the poisonous tree. I really would like to cross apply this into my off case arguments but I am not sure everyone will catch that so ill do a pretty quick explanation here and expand on it in my off case: Basically if the idea stemmed from racsim it is a racist action, i know this doesn't seem like it makes a lot of sense now but please allow me to expand in my off case.

OFF CASE:

1. Fruit of the poisonous tree: Because I"m running out of characters (and time) ill try and make this short and sweet. This is essentially a legal argument that states that anything that stems from something cannot be used by it. Ok so ill explain this and how it proves my case true today. If we look at hitlers early life we see that he expressed raceism at a young age thus every action he took stemmed directly from his hatred for any race that wasn"t his own. We also see that all of his cations were not ammbitious they were just plain racist. I rest my case if it stems from the root of racism it is racist.
2. Consideration of culture: we need to consider that race is sessionally culture. My opponent through out their entire cases simply say that Judaism is not a race. It is and I have proved that to you today by hitlers own definition. Many of my offensive arguments were touched on in the rebuttal of the affirmative case so please carry those across.

Thank you of reading have a great night!

Sources:
1- Mein Kampf
2- http://www.jewfaq.org...
3-http://wcdebate.com...
4. http://idebate.org...
Debate Round No. 2
AsianGenius

Pro

Refutation arguments- Con mentions that pro/I states that 'racism was an underlying piece of a large puzzle'. Then con proceeded to say 'since Hitler actions were for racist reasons and the reasons he reaped many of the benefits from his actions is because he was racist to begin with'. However if one were to take out the fancy wording and use intuition this would be saying pro/I say 'racism was not the ultimate goal' and con refuting with 'because many of the benefits he received was due to being racist he is nothing more than racist.' Quite obviously if someone were to say 'being racist is not the ultimate goal' and then his opponent countering by saying 'since he could not have received the benefits without being racist, then being racist was his ultimate goal and there was nothing more to him' then this is an illogical argument at the core but sounded intelligent with all the fancy wording.

About the quotes my opponent used to 'support' the fact he was establishing a racially pure country.
"Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice."
Adolf Hitler
"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."
how do those quotes support the argument of Hitler trying to establish a pure race country? In fact it has nothing to do with race.

My opponent claims my quote is out of context 'because' of the awful memories of the holocaust. and my opponent questions my use of the site when instead my opponent's use of the site as a source contradicts her own argument.

I think I have made the case for jews being a religion and not a race very clear. By defintion someone is jewish or not based on religious faith because judaism is a faith! Whether or not someone considers something offensive or not fact is fact.

Also my opponent says 'The idea of jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish vision of Nazi Germany' and then proceeds to say therefore Hitler regarded them as a race. However by common sense only jews are questioing whether they are a religion or not and the idea was thought of by jews and not Hitler so this was a rash assumption Hitler would have the same ideas are the jews. Then my opponent mentions there was a quote from Mein Kampf but cannot prove that it is an actual quote. If i were to do the same thing as my opponent then I could also just say " jews threaten the nation with evils of their practices which has been poisoning the Health of Germany." from Mein Kampf. Therefore Hitler mentions jewish practices most probably their economic decisions endanger Germany which indicates they are a religion and their religious practices are dangerous. The whole propoganda argument is ambiguous as hating on jews created support for Hitler's other ambitionsand so hating on jews could just be propoganda to rally up popular support.

To explain if I as Pro thinks he is racist or not... I do think so but i'm just simply saying he had more to him than racism. For some parts of my argument to support he is racist does not hurt my argument he is racist because my argument was never to prove he ISN'T RACIST BUT INSTEAD TO PROVE HE HAD OTHER PARTS TO HIM.

My opponent never truly explains how attacking communists and marxists is racist. Take out all the poisonous tree fancy wording it comes down to Hitler was racist when he was young and thus everything he did therefore must be racist and by common sense the logic is flawed.

My opponent tries to once again mix race with religion in culture.

Ok now i'm going to bring up some actions that were clearly not racist. For example during the few years before the WW2 he brought germans off the streets and into offices. Death rates declined. Literacy rates increased. Fewer babies died of disease. By 1939 Germany thanks to Hitler's leadership Germany had paid back 90% of its debt, removed france's poisonous tithes on germany's people industries, and defeated the much hated treaty of versailess. He also sent soldiers into Spain to prevent them from falling into a Communist dictatorship just like America did in Vietnem but cared enough about the welfare of Spanish people to save them from the red threat rather than abondoning them like the Americans did to the vietnamese. They also helped Hungarians and romanians fend off Soviet attacks, drew off the pressure on Finaland from Soviet attacks and reinforced Iraqians in their struggle against a British tyranny. Hitler also improved Germany enough from being a war torn and bombed country with riots all over to a united country that would win most gold, silver and bronze medals. Let's not forget when Health care improves fewer people die so Hitler in fact saved lives and that should not be disregarded.

Improving the German economy was fro strengthening the nation and not for racist reasons. I am also running out of time and I have psat testing tomarrow. So will close with the fact I only need to prove he is more than racist and not necessarily he isn't racist in order to win.
KatieKat99

Con

KatieKat99 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
AsianGenius

Pro

The spanish civil war for one had little to do with race it was hitler's decision to get involved.

I don't have anthing to refute
KatieKat99

Con

KatieKat99 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
AsianGenius

Pro

therefore hitler was more than his racist policies.
KatieKat99

Con

KatieKat99 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by AsianGenius 2 years ago
AsianGenius
voting time
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
The pictures of text are a little over the top.
Posted by Awesomema111 2 years ago
Awesomema111
It wasn't even Hitler's idea about genocide on Jewish people
Posted by AsianGenius 2 years ago
AsianGenius
no age requirement, just need more than 2 debates
Posted by yasa70 2 years ago
yasa70
he was definitely smart as can clearly be seen by how efficiently he carried out his sick goals but from the start whether or not some things came out good he had a goal which is disgusting and the man (if you can even call him that) was an evil genius who is and will continue to burn in hell for all eternity
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
All those good things were wiped out by his hatred for Jews and his wanting to control the world by force.And one thing, He saw communism for what it was. A blight on humanity. That is something that 50% of Americans cannot see. Otherwise they would never have elected Obama.
Posted by BoggyDag 2 years ago
BoggyDag
@Blade-Of-Truth:
Those were not his speeches, those were Goebbel's.
@AsianGenius: "reslut"? *lol*
Seriously though, this debate is a truism. Any person is about different things. You rule out any discussion about how his heinous crimes make anything else he did pale in comparison.
As for his alleged good deeds:
War is not acceptable as a good thing, history has proven over and over again that war leads to more war, and nothing else.
As for his German policy: most of that was instigated by his predecessors, Hitler only claimed merit for what they had planned. Read "Animal Farm". Orwell gives a ood account on how Hitler (Napoleon) stole the plans for all his deeds from others.
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
I'd accept, but you've adjusted the age criteria/ranking.
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
The fact he killed around six million Jews and five million other people on the basis of their race, religious and political affiliations somewhat overrides any claim of "noteworthy" actions.

It should be highlighted that much of the ones you've listed are actually disputable.
Posted by General_Grievous 2 years ago
General_Grievous
Hitler was a tratior to the German people.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
AsianGeniusKatieKat99
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited the last 3 rounds. Due to not providing rebuttals against Pro's arguments, Pro wins on grounds of both conduct and arguments.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
AsianGeniusKatieKat99
Who won the debate:--
Reasons for voting decision: Really bad conduct from both sides. Con forfeited 3 rounds. Pro intentionally ruined two of his with character limit manipulation, which once disqualified leaves his case dependent upon his two rounds basically without content.