The Instigator
bbowhan
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
AndIwasLikeBaby
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Hitler was an Atheist

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,098 times Debate No: 22284
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

bbowhan

Con

As I have recently had an argument on this subject which was not resolved, I would like to place this debate that Hitler was not a Christian, but Atheist in order to get a feel for the arguments that Pro would likely use. I would like your Round 1 to be Pro's initial argument, and to have alternating argument/ counterarguments.


As this subject is necessarily a Godwin's Law scenario, I feel I must reiterate that 1.) no ad hominem attacks 2.) cite ALL your sources (the last argument didn't).


I welcome Pro's acceptance and first argument!

AndIwasLikeBaby

Pro

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe transubstantiation>....
"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease."
source: http://www.cs.rutgers.edu...
This quote from Hitler illustrates that he is not a Christian, but rather an Atheist because he is not supportive of any type of God.
Debate Round No. 1
bbowhan

Con

As always, dealing with a politician leads one to the difficult task of telling an expedient stance of the moment from a general worldview, especially as thoroughgoing a liar as the Chancellor was. I will demonstrate that Pros quote is of the first type. It is beyond dispute that Mr. Hitler was as racist and anti-Semitic as they come, following in a long tradition of hatred for 'Christ Killers' as noted on the front-piece of this authoritative translation [http://americannaziparty.com...] of his book.
It is not as well known however, how anti Enlightenment Hitler was (By Enlightenment I mean the use of Reason, skepticism, free thought and agnosticism/ atheism in general). Hitler, like many others then and now, lazily identified Atheism and Communism and his few mentions of atheism were entirely direct attacks, notably in closing the headquarters fo the 500,000 German freethinkers Society('Deutscher Freidenkerbund' ) and covering it to a church bureau of all things! [http://select.nytimes.com...] . The chancellor of the Freethought group would have his head taken near the end of the war as well.
Hitler was raised Catholic -even sang in the choir- but as the Fuhrer, mainly sought to remove religious competition to his own power. That is the true source and motivation of Pro's quote above. Mr. Hitler attempted to create a Positive Christianity, which replaced both Catholicism and Protestant churches with a 'back to basics' religion, wherein his Warrior Jesus was the spiritual founder of a unified Nazi/ Christian church, led by the Fuhrer himself. [http://atheism.about.com...]
AndIwasLikeBaby

Pro

you're gay
Debate Round No. 2
bbowhan

Con

First, I will note that my opponent has violated the terms listed in Round 1, as "you're gay" is exactly the attack that I prohibited. I urge that followers votes be for CON, due to this Ad hominem idiocy, the poor grammar (a two word sentance that isn't capitalized) , and because there is no source cited (oh, snap!). I will save my rebuttal to the argument for the comments section, and concentrate on my own subject.


Adolf Hitler was the heir of a long and nondenominational tradition of antisemitic bigotry in Europe. As early as 380 AD, St. Ambrose called the synagogue "a place of unbelief, a home of impiety, a refuge of insanity, damned by God Himself" and officially sanctioned massacres occurred throughout the Crusades, the Inquisition and during any societal downturn. Also, Martian Luther himself went from being originally sympathetic to the plight of European Jews to a virulent hatred not exceeded until Hitler himself [ http://www.humanitas-international.org... ]. Both groups also participated in the truly obscene Blood Libel, as well .

[ http://books.google.com... ]

[ http://books.google.com...]


It is notable- obvious even- that throughout his writing and speeches the Fuhrer hated with a psychopathic force not just Jews, but also other traditional out' groups of the European religious tradition, such as gypsies, intellectuals, more successful artists than the Fuher, and homosexuals...


… which brings Pro's last 'argument' into sharp and sad relief. There is probably no stupider path of argument against the source of bigotry from Histories Greatest Monster than descending into exactly the same witless shriek. I hope that Pro can redeem his poor performance in Round 3.

AndIwasLikeBaby

Pro

AndIwasLikeBaby forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
bbowhan

Con


At the final round, it is clear that Pro will not redeem himself as I invited him to do. As such I consider the debate over, and will not be placing any further arguments on this page. I'm disappointed, as I was hoping for better from my opponent, but also because there is no point to placing the arguments I was developing for my finale. I will leave with a few tidbits that I other wise have no use for.



http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com...



[http://www.rationalskepticism.org...]



[http://www.nobeliefs.com...]



[http://coelsblog.wordpress.com...]



[http://www.library.arizona.edu...]


I regret the lack of closure, and the waste that those coming to this debate in hopes of finding useful information for either side will find.



AndIwasLikeBaby

Pro

AndIwasLikeBaby forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bbowhan 5 years ago
bbowhan
As I said in the debate Round 3, I am rebutting Pros round 2 argument here. I tried to put it at the same intellectual level, but I may have overshot... you decide

"your gay" And is that all you got?
I was gonna give you some
Good whats what.

Now I gotta be your teacher, class is in session,
You will learn with this cat you
Will not be messin'.

I called for an adult debate
And not for some calf to say 'moo'
On debate.org you just dont rate.

I call my shots and cite my sources
I win and win again
By MY choices.

I opened your profile homey, what do I see,
You in some f**kin ELF suit, your (kinda hot) mama,
WTF- username is AndIwasLikeBaby??

Not even epic Elvish like Tolkein
Your cosplay is totally whack
Not BS Keebler, even.

Also you claim to like the men, AndIwasLikeBaby
So don't even ask, this tom cat
Only gets with the ladies.

Which reminds me, boy Baby
Can I get that chicks number?
You wont have to call me daddy.

I'll school you anywhere,
From Stanford U to the College of Pain
I hold the Dean's Chair.

I roam where I want, even old Burma
Step to this Leonidas, and learn
EVERYWHERE is Sparta.
Posted by misspelled 5 years ago
misspelled
Today a few "Cults" have popped up in society but they are usually small and don't last long. These cult leaders may try to gain power but are quickly discovered and deterred. Nazi Germany was a well taught lesson.

Hitler somehow managed to gain a lot of power before he could be stopped. Of course, it had a lot to do with his chain of command and not just the man himself. He assembled a group of people with similar values and together they tried to conquer the World. They might have gotten away with it but stepped on way too many toes. You can't murder millions of innocent people and not expect repercussions. War is war but murder is murder.
Posted by misspelled 5 years ago
misspelled
A religion is usually a well-establish institution whose people follow a set of beliefs based on the idea of a a diety. A religion's practiices are usually acceptable as within "normal" levels.

A cult is a "religion" that is usually 'made up' by a specific person (founder) where the beliefs are often obsessive and divert from the norm. The leader is demanding, aurthoritarian, and often charismatic. Sometimes the followers of a cult worship the founder as a type of god, and this leader may use extreme measures to maintain control. The cult often isolates itself from society, and society rejects the cult's practices.

In Hitler's case, he probably thought he was "God-like". He was definitely obsessed by hatred, and his practices were rejected by other countries. He was charismatic enough to gain many followers, and used viloence and murder to maintain control. In his sick mind, he believed it was his "duty" to get rid of a whole race of people, thereby "saving the world."

I suppose the thoery is that people have the need to believe in a "Superior Being". When a human tries to establish himself as (that) superior being, he's basically stepping on people's idea of what "God" should be....a human cannot be God, because "God" is infallible and a human isn't.

Anytime someone says they are "god" it usually pisses a lot of people off.
Posted by bbowhan 5 years ago
bbowhan
@misspelled-
What is a 'cult leader with more power' ? After all, the difference between a cult and a religion is...
Posted by misspelled 5 years ago
misspelled
oops, sorry, I'm new. Was trying copy an article.

Too much information to list the "Thirty-point program", so here are a few
points.

(from Wikpedia)

"During the war Alfred Rosenberg formulated a thirty-point program for the
National Reich Church, which included:
The National Reich Church claims exclusive right and control over all
Churches.
The National Church is determined to exterminate foreign Christian faiths
imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800.
The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and
dissemination of the Bible.
The National Church will clear away from its altars all Crucifixes, Bibles and
pictures of Saints.
On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf and to the left of the
altar a sword."

In their sick and twisted minds the Nazis were simply trying to create their own religion. It was done as a tool of control. Over 6,000 clergy were killed, including approx. 2,600 priests from many different countries.

No doubt whatever concept Hitler had of God, he saw himself as a "savior" to the World. So no, I don't think Hitler was an atheist, but he wasn't a Christian either. I think at times he considered himself as "God", so that follows more of what a "Satanistt" believes. ("Man is God") Hitler was very interested in Aleistar Crowley's works, and it was suggested that the two even met a few times, but this information is not verified. Crowley certainly wanted to become friends with Hitler, and sent him a copies of his writings.

By today's standards Hitler would be called a "Cult Leader", only he had a heck of a lot more power.
Posted by misspelled 5 years ago
misspelled
Just because someone claims to be Christian does not make it so. Christianity does not teach Mass Murder. The New Testament was meant to change the Old.

Religion is a great tool to use for propaganda. It always was an excuse, and it's a great scapegoat for someone to blame. Lenin did exactly the same thing that Hitler did and he didn't need religion to do it. This is proof that religion in itself is not the problem. It is the people that interpret it and use it for their own benefit.
Posted by misspelled 5 years ago
misspelled
Just because someone claims to be Christian does not make it so. Christianity does not teach Mass Murder. The New Testament was meant to change the Old.

Religion is a great tool to use for propaganda. It always was an excuse, and it's a great scapegoat for someone to blame. Lenin did exactly the same thing that Hitler did and he didn't need religion to do it. This is proof that religion in itself is not the problem. It is the people that interpret it and use it for their own benefit.
Posted by bbowhan 5 years ago
bbowhan
It is amazingly hard to find good references on the Internet- Adolf Hitler seems to be hated both sides equally. The web sites devoted to lumping him in with the other team are all over the place.
Posted by johnnyboy54 5 years ago
johnnyboy54
@owen99999

You can't be Catholic and Agnostic. He may have been raised Catholic though.
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
It's going to be impossible to really tell, since it is hard to distinguish what he really believe and what he was pandering. But good luck to anyone that takes this.
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