The Instigator
STALIN
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Xirbitzy
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Hitler was worse than Stalin

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
STALIN
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/27/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,058 times Debate No: 39537
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

STALIN

Pro

If you accept then please state your arguments. I will respond in the next round.
Xirbitzy

Con

Before posting my arguements, i'd like to make a few things clear. Firstly, this is my first debate on this site, so i will do my best to respect my opponent and not let this devovle into mean arguement like kids calling each other foul names. Secondly, while ww2 history is my passion and i am especially interested in germany's exspansion and the Holocaust, i must say that Stalin outclassed Hitler in being "worse" and here is my first arguemnt.

Before the second world war had even started, Stalin was notorious for his "great purge" during the the late 1930's. This great purge ocurred due to Stalin being paranoid of other political leaders and even millitary leaders. During the purge, approx 1.5 million people got arrested and accused of "conspiring against the people" or being an "enemy of the people". Of those 1 500 000 people, more than 660 000 people were executed (see Communism: A History by Richard Pipes, page 67 forsource).

These executions paralyzed the Red Army. A lot of generals got tried and shot, zhukov narrowly escaped the trials by being tied up with the battle of Khalkhin Gol on the Manchurian front, in the Siberian far east. Others generals in Europe weren't so lucky. The purge had a profound effect on the Red Army in europe, There were no generals to develope new millitary tactics or even war plans. When the Soviet Union invaded poland, the inexperienced generals grew over-confident due to the low casualties. This proved disasterous when the "green" generals used the same invasion tactics against Finland during the Winter War. They won the war at a heavy price. In general casualties, the Red Army suffered a devastating 5:1 loss in manpower, tanks and airplanes. The Red Army also suffered a gruesome 6 soldiers killed for each Finish soldier death, amassing to approx 125,000 Russian KIA's vs. the finnish 26 000, and that's not even going into the German-Russian war, which i will save for after i have recieved pro's response.
Debate Round No. 1
STALIN

Pro

You talk about Stalin's purges of political and military leaders and about how he killed 660,000 people. However this is not millions of people. Stalin killed over 40 million people throughout his 28 year regime. Hitler killed over 30 million people in about half the time. I will argue that the reason Hitler was worse was because of his reasons for killing. Hitler killed people simply because he did not like them. He killed Jews, the disabled, and homosexuals. Stalin killed people because he was either paranoid about them being a threat, or they actually were a threat (such as the Ukrainians who rose up against Stalin's collectivization) in the 30s. Most of the people who Hitler killed, he killed between the years 1941 and 1945. This includes 17 million Soviets civilians, 6 million Poles, and 1 million Yugoslavians. And those countries only include part of the eastern front. In 4 years Hitler killed around 30 million people. Stalin killed over 40 million people but he did this over a period of 28 years. If you compare Hitler's concentration camps and Stalin's gulag, you will notice a huge difference. When prisoners arrived to the concentration camp, 70% of them were killed immediately. This included women and children and even babies. In the gulag, people were worked to death. There were no children since a child could not be a threat. All the people who arrived at the gulag were people who could work. The fact that Hitler was killing people at a much faster rate proves that he was the worse of two evils.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Xirbitzy

Con

It is true that Stalin killed more people than Hitler, that you concede in your arguement. However, you argue that Stalin killed at a slower rate, which is simply not true. Stalin wanted to build up his industry, he became obbsessed with building new factories as part of his promise to make the USSR a industrial power. He willingly neglected to to build arnaments in appropiate quantities until it was far too late to save the devastating loses. In 1940, a year before the war with Germany invaded, Stalin finally had put his factories to build arnaments, tanks and planes. Part of the third five year plan which focused only heavy industry and arnaments, which caused a lack in consumer goods. As a result, combinded with my previous arguements, in 1941, when Hitler invaded, the USSR had a disorganized economy, laughable general corps save from a few who escaped the purge. The USSR outdated arnaments and tanks, outdated war and logistical plans, with Red Army troops only had a quater of their supply and arnaments demand. Due to Stalin's purges and his unsucessful five year plans, the red army got caugth with their pants down( Wikipedia: "soviet five-year plans"). He even refused to believe that Germany would attack until weeks before the invasion. The subsequent invasion and war reached the very suburbs of Moscow and cost the USSR 10 million millitary dead and an estimated 14-17 million civilian dead, amassing to 24-27 million dead, making stalin responisble for 50% of all casualties in ww2 because he neglected the millitary and civilian needs just to make his industrial dream real. This is not even mentioning the german civilian deaths and rapes when the USSR invaded Germany and Poland in 1944-45. Hitler is far from responible for all the soviet deaths, had the soviet union been armed and preared with a competent general corp, the war could have ended far sooner.
Debate Round No. 2
STALIN

Pro

"However, you argue that Stalin killed at a slower rate, which is simply not true. Stalin wanted to build up his industry, he became obsessed with building new factories as part of his promise to make the USSR a industrial power. He willingly neglected to to build armaments in appropriate quantities until it was far too late to save the devastating loses. In 1940, a year before the war with Germany invaded, Stalin finally had put his factories to build armaments, tanks and planes."

Hitler killed around 30 million people in 4 years. Stalin killed around 40 million people in 28 years. Hitler killed people because he did not like them and considered them to be inferior. Stalin killed people because he was paranoid about them being a threat and because he believed that he was doing the right thing with building his industries. Also, Stalin put his factories to building armaments long before 1940. The reason the Soviets lost so much during WWII was because they were unprepared and had bad leadership. Had it not been for the collapse of Nazi Germany, Hitler would have killed millions more Poles, Jews, Soviets, etc in his extermination camps all because he did not like those people.

It is clear who is the greater of two evils. Hitler killed people at a much faster rate which proves that he was much worse. Concentration camps were death camps. Gulag camps were work camps.

"The subsequent invasion and war reached the very suburbs of Moscow and cost the USSR 10 million millitary dead and an estimated 14-17 million civilian dead, amassing to 24-27 million dead, making stalin responisble for 50% of all casualties in ww2 because he neglected the millitary and civilian needs just to make his industrial dream real. This is not even mentioning the german civilian deaths and rapes when the USSR invaded Germany and Poland in 1944-45. Hitler is far from responible for all the soviet deaths, had the soviet union been armed and preared with a competent general corp, the war could have ended far sooner."

Hitler was responsible for all of these deaths, not Stalin. Stalin was not the one who killed 17 million civilians. And also, about 3 million Red Army soldiers died in Hitler's POW camps.

You simply do not have enough evidence to prove that Stalin was worse than Hitler. I agree that both dictators killed millions of people and that Stalin killed more than Hitler, but Hitler was ready to kill the entire population of eastern Europe simply because he did not like those people and considered them inferior.

Sources:
http://www.nybooks.com...
http://www.rense.com...
http://www.cyberussr.com...
Xirbitzy

Con

Xirbitzy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
STALIN

Pro

Please don't quit...
Xirbitzy

Con

Xirbitzy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
STALIN

Pro

GIVE ME AN ANSWEr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Xirbitzy

Con

I do believe that if the USSR controlled as many people as the Third Reich did at it's peak, Stalin would execute ANYONE who wasn't socialist. HItler executed people because of racial profiles, stalin executed people based on what they believed.

Now, at it's peak in november 1942, the Third Reich had direct hegemony over the following occupied countries Norway, Denmark, France, Luxembourg, Belgia, The Netherlands, France, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, estonia and parts of greece and yugoslavia. Not to mention the puppet states of Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. Italy controlled their own people until 1943 (invasion of sicily) and the african colonies do not have proper census information, so i didnt take those to factors into account.

But all those terriotories, pluss germany's, 1939 census amasses to a whopping approx 255 million people. HItler had controll over more people than stalin, who had at his heigth of power about 200 million people under his control, and thats mostly his own country. If the Soviet Union had not stopped at by Postdam and the allies had never invaded normandy. Stalin would have controlled alot of freedom loving people waiting to be executed for being "enemies of the people"

Now i'm probably going to lose the vote on this since i didn't answer Pro on two rounds and didn't give him the chance to respond the arguements in this round and that i do apologize, greatly, for

Source: www.wikipedia.org for census information
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
Its fine, I would understand if your too busy.
Posted by Xirbitzy 3 years ago
Xirbitzy
Well, we have a month, so we will see then. Good discussion though, sorry i did not answer round 3 and 4.
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
ye, the only problem is that there is a large chance that nobody will bother to vote. Happens all the time. Not sure why.
Posted by Xirbitzy 3 years ago
Xirbitzy
Haha, yeah i know. Since i did not answer for two rounds, i'm fairly sure your going to win this. No hard feelings? and you have some valid points. If i had answered during the earlier rounds i would have had time to refute back and forth. ^^
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
not comment but debate
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
way to post your comment at the last minute Xirbitzy.
Posted by m1kke95 3 years ago
m1kke95
Shieeeeee!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by CPUSA99 3 years ago
CPUSA99
STALINXirbitzyTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
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Total points awarded:52 
Reasons for voting decision: stalins a dirt son o bitc h