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Hitler wasn't the bad guy

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/27/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,336 times Debate No: 31788
Debate Rounds (3)
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I believe that even tough people blame it all on Hitler. maybe he wasn't the bad guy, or maybe he was misunderstood.


I'm all for defending people, but some people are simply un-defendable.
Hitler is one of them.
Once the History is laid down in all its gory glory, I think there will be no room for doubt of the fact that Hitler was "a bad guy".

Hitler is most infamously known for 2 main things:

1) Hitler's aggressive foreign policy is considered the main cause of the outbreak of World War II in Europe.
2) Hitlers antisemitic policies and racially motivated ideology resulted in the deaths of at least 6 million Jews and millions of other people deemed racially inferior.

Before I get into those 2, I want to mention a lesser known Hitlerian policy which is not as bad & not as well know as the previous 2. Hitlers' policy of book banning & burning policy:
The official list was published by the "Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung and Propaganda" or "The Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda". Authors, living and dead, were placed on the list because of Jewish descent, or because of the pacifist or communist sympathies or suspicion thereof. The list included authors like; Albert Einstein (latter named "Times man of the century"), & Sigmund Freud (Father of Psycology, psychotherapy, & psychiatry). Both of these authors, as well as numerous others, were banned simply because they are of the "inferior" Jewish race.

In May and June 1933, in the first year of the Nazi government, there were book burnings. These book bans compose a part of the history of censorship and a subset of the list of banned books.
After World War II started, the Germans created indexes of prohibited books in countries they occupied, by works in languages other than German. For example, in occupied Poland, an index of 1,500 prohibited authors was created.

Antisemitism, Expansionism, WWII, Euthinazia, Ethnic purification, & the holocaust:

In a meeting with German military leaders on 3 February 1933, Hitler spoke of "conquest for Lebensraum in the East and its ruthless Germanisation" as his ultimate foreign policy objectives.
Lebensraum is German for "habitat" or literally "living room".
The Nazis supported territorial expansionism to gain Lebensraum ("living space") as being a law of nature for all healthy and vigorous peoples of superior races to displace people of inferior races.

In March 1936, Germany reoccupied the demilitarized zone in the Rhineland in violation of the Versailles Treaty.

November Hitler restated his intention of acquiring Lebensraum for the German people.

On 1 September 1939, Germany invaded western Poland, thus beginning WWII, the largest & most deadly war the world has ever known.

The fall of Poland was followed by Sitzkrieg in which Hitler "Germanised" (I.E. Ethnically cleaned) Poland.

Next, Hitler began a military build-up on Germany's western border, and in April 1940, German forces invaded Denmark and Norway. On 9 April, Hitler proclaimed the birth of the "Greater Germanic Reich", his vision of a united empire of the Germanic nations of Europe, where the Dutch, Flemish, and Scandinavians were joined into a "racially pure" polity under German leadership.

In May 1940, Germany attacked France, and conquered Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Belgium.

In October, Hitler began bombing British cities, including London, Plymouth, and Coventry.

In April 1941, Hitler launched the invasion of Yugoslavia, quickly followed by the invasion of Greece.

In May, German forces were sent to support Iraqi rebel forces fighting against the British and to invade Crete.

On 22 June 1941, Hitler violated the Hitler–Stalin non-aggression pact of 1939, 5.5 million troops attacked the Soviet Union. This large-scale offensive was intended to destroy the Soviet Union and seize its natural resources for subsequent aggression against the Western powers. The invasion conquered a huge area, including the Baltic republics, Belarus, and West Ukraine.

On 7 December 1941, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
Four days later, Hitler formally declared war against the United States.

On 18 December 1941, Himmler asked Hitler, "What to do with the Jews of Russia?", to which Hitler replied, "als Partisanen auszurotten" ("exterminate them as partisans").

The Holocaust and Germany's war in the East was based on Hitler's long-standing view that the Jews were the great enemy of the German people and that Lebensraum was needed for the expansion of Germany. He focused on Eastern Europe for this expansion, aiming to defeat Poland and the Soviet Union and on removing or killing the Jews and Slavs. The Generalplan Ost ("General Plan for the East") called for deporting the population of occupied Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union to West Siberia, for use as slave labor or to be murdered; the conquered territories were to be colonized by German or "Germanised" settlers.
By January 1942, it had been decided to kill the Jews, Slavs, and other deportees considered undesirable.


The Holocaust (the "Endlösung der Judenfrage" or "Final Solution of the Jewish Question") was ordered by Hitler and organized and executed by Heinrich Himmler and Reinhard Heydrich.

In the middle of September 1941 Hitler ordered the deportation of the Jews from the Greater German Reich into ghettos in Eastern Europe. He thereby set in process the deportation plans which he had pursued at the beginning of 1941, without waiting for the original precondition - the military victory over the Red Army. Only a month earlier, in the middle of August, Hitler had spoken against the "evacuation" of Jews from the Reich area.

The records of the Wannsee Conference—held on 20 January 1942 and led by Heydrich, with fifteen senior Nazi officials participating—provide the clearest evidence of systematic planning for the Holocaust. On 22 February, Hitler was recorded saying, "we shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jews".

In 1942 Hitler approved the Einsatzgruppen—killing squads that followed the German army through Poland, the Baltic, & the Soviet Union. By summer 1942, Auschwitz concentration camp was rapidly expanded to accommodate large numbers of deportees for killing or enslavement. Scores of other concentration camps and satellite camps were set up throughout Europe, with several camps devoted exclusively to extermination.

Between 1939 and 1945, the Schutzstaffel (SS), assisted by collaborationist governments and recruits from occupied countries, was responsible for the deaths of at least eleven million people, including six million Jews (representing two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe), Deaths took place in concentration and extermination camps, ghettos, and through mass executions. Many victims of the Holocaust were gassed to death, whereas others died of starvation or disease while working as slave laborers.

Although Jews suffered most from the holocaust, they were not the only ones:
Hitler's policies also resulted in the killing of; 1.5 - 2 million Romani people, two million Poles, over 3 million Soviet prisoners of war, communists and other political opponents, homosexuals, the physically and mentally disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists, and trade unionists.

This is Just a tip of the Iceburg.
I'll turn it over to my esteemed opponent.

Common knowledge
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L Shirer
Hitler: A Study in Tyranny by Alan Bullock
Hitler (2 vols) by Ian Kershaw
The Holocaust Encyclopedia
Debate Round No. 1


Before I start I must say two things 1. I am not in any way a Nazi and I don't approve of what they did. 2. I must confess you are really good at debating and that was a very good argument.

But I'm still not convinced. When people look at Hitler what they see is only those things that you mentioned above. While those things are completely true, not even I can deny that Hitler did take some horrible decisions which lead to even worse effects on not only Jews but even people outside of them. As everyone knows History is always written by the Winner, no matter how wrong they are they tell their own stories and people after them believe in it. When it comes to World War 2 the winners weren't exactly the Jews but the allies which includes countries that were affected politically and financially by the war and in that maybe as a form of revenge they might have purposely altered History a bit to make what Hitler did seem even worse.

As a kid Hitler was very patriotic, he was also very nationalist meaning he didn't like things like business from outside countries, imported goods, etc. He was willing to fight for his country and do anything to make it better. He wasn't only part of the army but he was also very good at giving speeches. So Hitler became part of a political party and in 1929 thanks to the the stock market crash his political party rose to power. Hitler promised to repudiate the Versailles Treaty, strengthen the economy, and provide jobs.

Much more before that during the expansion of Christianity Jews spread out to all over Europe. (now back to the 20th century). and just like today immigrants are taking jobs from the original born Americans that was happening back in the 30's too but on a much larger scale. and as part of his promise he decided he should try stopping them before they take all jobs, and he decided to force the Jews out. I'm not sure if you believe in god or not, I tried to find out form your profile but I believe that you're just Agnostic. so lets say that (supposedly) when god saw that there was too much evil on the earth(too many Jews = too little jobs) he decided to stop it and create one huge flood(holocaust), so that the animals and good people could live in a world with less evil(leave only Germans so they could have better living opportunities). so as you can see in his head maybe he thought that he was right all along, and was just trying to create a better Germany.

I myself don't believe in that bull crap (sorry if you do) so my summary might have been a little off. but what my point is that Hitler thought that he was doing good. if anything you can blame the Germans too. Hitler might have started it all but do you really think that he did it all alone. so if people can hold a grudge against Hitler they should with the Germans (and allies) too.


Thank you.

I don't have time to write everything I'd like, but here goes what I did have time to write:

While those things are completely true, not even I can deny that Hitler did take some horrible decisions which lead to even worse effects on not only Jews but even people outside of them.”

Well, then isn’t he a “bad guy”?

History is always written by the winners.

(The original line, 1st said by Winston Churchill was “History is written by the victors. “ Dan Brown, The Da Vinci Code messed it up by; adding the word “always”, which is false, & changing “victors” to “winners”. Victors sounds better. In my opinion “victor” without the “s” sounds even better, but no one asked my opinion:(.)

This is more true in ancient history, in the modern age, with developed technology, communication, record keeping, etc., The “History is written by the victors” problem is much less relevant. Furthermore, one of the main causes of “History is written by the victors”, is the fact that in the ancient world, only the victors recorded the event because history was basically a nationalistic pride thing, so the losers wouldn't’t record the event. Another major factor is that the loser would often cease to exist &/ influence or they would be too busy trying to survive to record &/ spread anything. These are not true with Germany, Germany has always been a major superpower at the forefront of modern civilization, even after losing. Finally, Germany acknowledges the wrong that Hitler did.

... just like today immigrants are taking jobs from the original born Americans that was happening back in the 30's too but on a much larger scale...”

The Jews had been there for almost 2,000 years.

“Judaism in Europe has a long history, beginning with the conquest of the Eastern Mediterranean by Pompey in 63 BCE, thus beginning the History of the Jews in the Roman Empire, though likely Alexandrian Jews had migrated to Rome slightly before Pompey's conquest of the East.” (1)

"The presence of Jews in Germany has been established since the early 4th century. German Jews founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community in the Early and High Middle Ages." (2)

In fact, some say that Hitler was 1/4th Jewish himself.

Furthermore Jews contributed tremendously to German; growth, civilization, & culture:
List of Jewish German scientists:
Over 40 Natural Scientists Including 13 of whom were Nobel prize winners, including Albert Einstein (Times man of the century).
At least 40 Physicians and medical researchers, 9 of whom won Nobel prizes, including Sir Ernst Chain who developed penicillin.
At least 30 mathematicians.

List of Academic figures:
At least;
26 Philosophers
11 economists including 2 Nobel prize winners
20 Social Scientists 16 historians
20 Jurists
14 Linguists and philologists
57 musicians (mostly composers)
26 artists
58 writers

Even without all this, there was no excuse for treating the Jews the way he did, they are Humans, part of Hitlers problem was that he considered them & others like blacks, as sub-human.

Book Banning & Burning:
This was not addressed.
Early in the 19th century, German Jewish poet Heinrich Heine, alert to the stirrings of anti-Jewish nationalism around him, wrote prophetically that “in a country where books are burned, human beings will be [burned] as well.”
How right he was.

" if anything you can blame the Germans too."

Indeed. That doesn't make Hitler not a "bad guy".

More in next round.


Debate Round No. 2


eduardolilli forfeited this round.


Well, I think that settles it.
Vote Con!

(1 point that I missed is:

Hitler's involvement in helping the Arabs in Israel to kill Jews, with various forms of funding & support:

The most noted Arab politician who actively collaborated with the Nazis was Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (al Quds) Haj Amin al-Husseini. The British had forced the Mufti into exile for his role in the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.

On 28 November 1941, Adolf Hitler met with Haj Amin al-Husseini . The official German notes of that meeting record contains numerous references to combating Jews both inside and outside Europe. The following is a small excerpt from that meeting (the rest can be found in my sources) is a statement from Hitler to the Mufti:
Germany stands for uncompromising war against the Jews. It goes without saying that Germany will furnish positive and practical aid to the Arabs involved in the same struggle... (1)(2)(3)(4) ((5))

Although the Mufti may be the most well-known Arab collaborator with Nazi Germany, there were other influential Arab and Muslim political leaders who made common cause with the Germans.Hassan al-Banna, an ally of the Mufti who founded the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928, openly acknowledged the common interests with National Socialist anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist politics, and actively collaborated with the Nazis Al-Banna was also fascinated by Hitler. Both hated Jews, democracy, and Western culture

The Palestinian Arab and Nazi political leaders publicly claimed common cause against International Jewry. The most significant practical effect of Nazi policy on Palestine between 1933 and 1938, however, was to radically increase the immigration rate of German and other European Jews and double the population of Palestinian Jews. The Mufti had sent messages to Berlin though Heinrich Wolf, the German Consul in Jerusalem endorsing the advent of the new regime as early as March, 1933, and was enthusiastic over the Nazi anti-Jewish policy, and particularly the anti-Jewish boycott in Germany... (5,6,7,8) (&(1-4))

This can't count for the debate, since it is a new point in the final round.)

1) Hitler's aggressive foreign policy was the main cause of the outbreak of World War II in Europe.

2) Hitler's anti Semitic policies and racially motivated ideology resulted in the deaths of at least 6 million Jews and millions of other people deemed racially inferior.

3) Book Banning & Burning.

4) Hitler's involvement in helping the Arabs in Israel to kill Jews, by providing various forms of funding & support.


Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Misterscruffles 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Foregone conclusion.