The Instigator
pensfan
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
dynamicduodebaters
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Hockey is better than soccer

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
dynamicduodebaters
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/21/2014 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 7,025 times Debate No: 60778
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (2)

 

pensfan

Pro

first round acceptance.
dynamicduodebaters

Con

We will both be copying arguments from other of our debates. In other words, I accept. :)
Debate Round No. 1
pensfan

Pro

Hockey is a better sport then soccer for many reasons.

First off, hockey is a faster sport. The average hockey player can skate up to 26.79 mph with some players speed even clocking in over 30 mph. According to physicist Thomas Humphrey, "skating is the fastest way to travel on the surface of the earth on your feet." When you run, your front foot slows you down every time it hits the ground. In skating, one skate pushes down and the other skate glides. There is very little friction to slow you down. A soccer players average speed is only about 20 mph. You also can add the speed in which the puck travels around the ice. Pucks can travel up to 105 mph, with the fastest shot being recorded at 118.3 mph by Bobby Hull.(slap shot). A soccer ball has a maximum speed of only 80-85 mph. Anything over 85 mph is extremely rare. http://forums.bigsoccer.com...
http://www.exploratorium.edu...

Toughness is another reason why hockey is a better sport than soccer. In hockey there is plenty of contact, wether it is getting hit into the boards or fighting every game has contact. If you were to hit someone in a soccer game the referees would be handing out the colorful cards and someone will be on the ground looking to win an Oscar award.
Here is a video to show you what i mean. ( you don't have to watch the full 7 minutes to get the point)
https://www.youtube.com...
dynamicduodebaters

Con

I will start my first speech with two arguments on why the resolution "Soccer is a better sport than Hockey" must stand. Also, I will save all my rebuttals and sources/references for the final round and I hope that my opponent saves her rebuttals for the final round as well.

Argument #1: Longer Games

In a NHL, Olympic or almost every type of Hockey game the time frame is 60 minutes for a regulation game. Where as in MLS game or Premier League soccer game the time frame for playing is 90 minutes. This is good for two main reasons: first, this longer game makes it more enjoyable for the fans because the action is longer lasting with the game being a hour and a half. As a watcher of both sports, I can tell you that watching a 90 minute game is more enjoyable then watching 60 minutes of sports. Second, this longer game makes the soccer players have to play a lot more, which increases the stamina, toughness and knowing when to pace yourself a lot better for the player of soccer.

Argument #2: Hockey Players are weaker/ break times

I will again split this argument into groups, but this time three. First: Shifts. In hockey, a player is not out there for more than 1 minute 30 seconds at a time. They have to frequently shift, which shows weakness and low stamina. The average soccer player plays for 45 minutes straight, or until half time. What a shift! Second: Total play time. Some soccer players play a full 90 minutes where as the average defensive player in hockey plays around 25 minutes a game, and the average forward around 20 minutes. Thirdly: Intermissions. Adding to them not being able to play much at one time, they also have intermissions 3 times a game so they can rest. Soccer players only need one intermission, and that is after playing for 45 minutes.

Sorry about this round being oh so short, but next round should be longer. Also, Thank you to pensfan for this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
pensfan

Pro

1. Embellishment- In soccer there are many players who love to fake injuries, as you can tell from the video in my last argument. It is very rare to see that happen in hockey. When a player embellishes an injury they are given a penalty.

Accuracy- Hockey players have better accuracy. Under NHL rules, the opening of the goal is 72 inches (6 ft ) wide by 48 inches (4ft ) tall. In soccer, the uprights are 8 yards, or 24 feet, apart and the lower edge of the crossbar is 8 feet above the ground. Now take the goalies and place them in the nets. In hockey you have a goalie at least 6 ft tall with pads on. That is covering almost every opening of the net. In soccer you have a goalie of about 5'11" standing in a large net with many openings. However the average score in a soccer game is about 2 (depending on the team). In hockey the average score is about 4.

Toughness - A recent ESPN study concluded that ice hockey is the most demanding team sport in the world. Durability is a quality that hockey players display perhaps, paradoxically, more than any other athletes. They play a sport that is more physically demanding than any other - 60 minutes in a confined area with no "comfort zone" out of bounds. Hockey is non stop action. Either you are rushing on a break, or hurrying back to get into your defensive zone. There is no time, especially in the NHL, where a player would really have the chance to catch their breath during a game. In hockey you are constantly moving your feet. There is no such thing as standing still while on the ice. Each period lasts is 20 minutes long and there are 3 periods in a game. There are only 2 intermissions which last about 15 minutes so they can clean the ice. Each game lasts about 2 1/2 to 2 hours.
dynamicduodebaters

Con

Oh boy I can not wait for the rebuttal. But I will. :)

Argument #3: Popularity
Soccer has a way bigger popularity and viewing rate than hockey. Here is a quote from fifa.com: "715.1 million people watched the final match of the 2006 FIFA World Cup held in Germany". Now, let's take a look at the numbers for the Stanly Cup: there was a average of 4.91 million viewers of the 2009 Stanly Cup Playoffs final round per game. What's more, most amount of people watching a single NHL game was between Chicago-Montreal in 1971 was 12.4 million. 12.4 million people versus 71.5 million people. Thus, soccer is way more popular than Hockey, creating a much better business from ticket buying and merchandise purchasing.

Argument #4: Inclusiveness Worldwide
Soccer can be played in so many countries, no matter the status. For Example, take the country Cameroon. They are not in the greatest situation for economy, yet still have one of the greatest National Teams in Africa. Soccer is also played in Canada and the USA, even though it might seem way to cold. Yet Hockey is only primarily played in North America and Europe. It is usually only in colder countries. Ever heard of a Hockey Team in warm Africa? At least I have not. Ever heard of a soccer team in cold Russia? Yes!

Argument #5: Easiness to Learn
Hockey takes a lot of skill and equipment to learn. First, you need a stick, a puck, skates and ice (if you are playing on ice, witch is the most common form of playing by far). Then, you need to learn how to skate, so you might take lessons. Lessons cost a lot of money. Then, you have to learn how to skate, shoot, and keep control of the puck at the same time! In soccer you need only shoes.
My opponent might say: you have to run and shoot and dribble in soccer at the same time too, BUT, running comes naturally where as skating you have to learn and take classes.

One more thing: Please take into account that in Debates you vote on a debater that has good points NOT the side you would personally take in a real life situation.

Thanks.
Debate Round No. 3
pensfan

Pro

Soccer games are too long. A game of soccer consist of two 45 minute halves. That is 90 minutes total. Then consider that the clock keeps running when the play is stopped. If the game is tied at the end of the two 45 minute periods, then you go into two 15 minute overtimes. If it is still tied after that, then you go into sudden death overtime. That is a lot of time for a game with not a lot of action. In hockey there are three 20 minute periods. When a regular season game is tied at the end of regulation, it goes into a 4-on-4, five minute overtime period after a one minute rest period. If there is no goal scored during that time then it goes to a three-round shootout. This sequence ends when one team mathematically has more shootout goals then the other, thus winning the game. That is the perfect amount of time for this sport to be played. Its not to long, and there is plenty of action to keep you on your toes.

Scoring- In 90 minutes, you might see one goal during a soccer game. Or you might not. A 2-0 win would be considered a slaughter in soccer, but a close game in hockey. Goals are what makes a game exiting. You will see more goals scored in hockey then you do in soccer, making hockey more exiting.

Out of bounds- In soccer, a lot of the time is spend kicking the ball out of bounds, and then throwing or kicking it back into bounds after a stoppage of play. There are not many stoppage of plays in hockey. You have the glass and boards keeping the puck in play about 99% of the time. The only time the puck is out of bounds is if it goes up into the netting (into the seats) or goes into the benches.

Skill- hockey requires a certain level of skill to reach the high levels of professional sports, and hockey players have to have some of the strongest talents to even make the professional ranks. They have to be able to skate forwards, backwards and be able to stop correctly. And it is all done at high speeds. Skating is not something that everyone can do which makes it a talent. Unlike running. Plus they have to combine skating with stick handling. They have to be able to use their stick for various kinds of shots such as slapshots, backhand shots, and wrist shots.

Hockey is not a sport for the weak. You have to be able to endure being thrown into the boards and having an open ice check come in your direction while at center ice. You have to put your body in front of fast moving pucks to block shots. You also have fighting which is not tolerated in any other sport.

http://bleacherreport.com...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://www.iihf.com...
dynamicduodebaters

Con

Only one more round till the best part: Rebuttals. :)

Anyways, back to the points!:
Point #6: Injuries
In any league of ice-hockey, there is many, many injuries, because of the physical play of hockey players. Concussions, broken bones, ribs injured and sprains are very often, which makes the game way more risky. These injuries come from the constant hitting and fighting in hockey, where as in soccer, if you check or rough anyone you are given a yellow or red card. Injuries in soccer are usually minor sprains. In hockey, big hits lead sometimes to a life-ending injury. In this next video, Lars Eller of the Montreal Canadians takes a really, really nasty hit (the video commentator is french but the point is still made): https://www.youtube.com......

Imagine you are Steve Moore. He was your average hockey player. Then, one game, against Vancouver, his whole career ended. Todd Bertuzzi comes up to him and wants a fight. Steve Moore says no. A few minutes later, Bertuzzi comes up to Moore, grabs his jersey, viciously punches Moore in the face then shoves onto the cold, hard ice. As a result, Moore was knocked out cold for around 11 minutes. He got three fractured vertebrae and a very major concussion. His passion, career, and love for hockey was done. Over. This is all a result of the violent nature of hockey.

Watch: https://www.youtube.com...

I will elaborate way more in the rebuttal.

And what's the worst that soccer has? Suarez?

https://www.youtube.com...

OK, and so he fakes that he does it. But what is worse, faking, or the REAL injuries?

Point #7 Goalies

In Hockey, the Goalies are almost the size of the net, making it almost too easy for them to save a puck. They move rarely and have a very non-flexible job: SAVE THE PUCK. Where as in Soccer, as a Goalie, you have to dive for the ball, which takes skill, and in soccer, players kick the ball on spin so it is hard to read the play. Soccer goalies know this and have fine-tuned there skills to read plays. What's more, in soccer, the goalie has to boot the ball an incredible distance and they do it just fine. This goes to show that the Goalies in Soccer are way better. Yes, hockey goalies make some crazy saves, but a crazy save in soccer is jut way harder.

Judges, what would be harder? Making this save:
https://www.youtube.com...

Or these:
https://www.youtube.com...

The choice is obvious. Soccer!

Thanks,
DDD
Debate Round No. 4
pensfan

Pro

Time for the rebuttals :)
Starting at the top

Longer games

Longer games can be enjoyable if there is a lot of action. There is not much action in soccer compared to hockey. In hockey you are watching a game that is constantly in motion. No matter what position you play you are always moving. A soccer game can get boring after an hour of watching men/woman running back and forth with a ball, kicking it out of bounds and having to throw it back in.

Break times/ toughness

Hockey players are on the ice 35-45 seconds at a time because while they are on the ice they are constantly moving. If you were to watch a game of hockey, you would notice that while a player is on the ice they are never standing still. They are always skating from one end of the ice to the other. Soccer players might play longer shifts, but that is because they are not constantly in motion. To add to the fact of how tough hockey players are. When you see a soccer player get injured (or pretty much any sports player) you see them lay on the ground until they are taken off by stretcher or helped off. In hockey, the players get up and skate off on there on. The only time you will not see that happen is if they are knocked out. Here is an example. Last season, Paul Martin, who plays for the Pittsburgh Penguins, broke the upper part of his leg. He skated to the bench and sat down to wait for his next shift. He did not realize his leg was broken until he stood up for his next shift and felt the bone move. Another example would be Clint Malarchuk. During a game he had his jugular vein cut by a skate. He refused to get on the stretcher. He skated off the ice on his own. ( he lived) the link to the video is below. If you don't like the sight of blood DON'T WATCH.
https://www.youtube.com...

Easiness to learn

Soccer might be easy to learn, but that takes the talent level out of it. Everybody knows how to run and kick a ball. It is very simple. But not everyone knows how to skate or or how to stickhandle. The fact that not a lot of people can do this makes it even more fascinating to watch. You are watching people do things that not everyone can do.

Injuries

Hockey might have a lot of injuries, but that is just part of the sport. That is how you know that hockey is much tougher then soccer. Occasionally you get players like Todd Bertuzzi who are way to violent ( i guess that's how i could put it without using colorful language :) ) those players are punished with suspensions from the games ( sometimes the rest of the season, and on one occasion a guy was kicked out of the NHL) and heavy fines. Take Shawn Thornton for example. He was suspended for 15 games ( should of been longer) for coming up behind Brooks Orpik, knocking him to the ice and punching him. (knocking him out). He also forfeited $84,615.45 in salary. Faking an injury is worst then the real thing. When you fake an injury you are wasting every ones time, and not to mention making a full of yourself.

Goalies

It takes more talent and accuracy for a hockey player to score a goal then it does a soccer player. Goalies are very flexible and also take dives. Just watch a game and you will see. They often go into the butterfly position which is like a split, and occasionally go down into a full split. Goalies have a lot of skills ( and guts) to be able to stop a puck moving at 95-118 mph. Plus being able to keep an eye on the small puck and knowing were it is every second of the game. A lot of hockey players use black tape so it is harder for the goalie or any other players to see the puck on the stick. Soccer goalies do not move that much either. And the ball is much easier to spot then a puck.

https://www.youtube.com...

http://espn.go.com...
dynamicduodebaters

Con


YAY! THE FUUUUN PART. Ok. Here:




I would like to point out that you did not refute all of my points.




“Hockey is a faster sport.” (the whole point) Pensfan states facts about how it is literally faster moving.




Alright, I agree, hockey is faster, however, that does not make it better. In fact, it makes it worse!




Faster players mean harder collisions. Imagine two players, going “over 30 mph” (Pensfan’s figures.) That is a 60 mile collision. Enough to knock them both onto the hard ice, and that could possibly give them serious injuries. Concussion? Possible. Broken bones? Possible. Blood? Almost guaranteed. Where as in soccer, again I will use your figures, the collision would be two “20 mph” people colliding. Maybe make them stumble? Fall? But no broken bones, no concussion, and maybe a tiny bit of blood. That’s all. Also, a stumble on to grass is cushioned, but a fall onto hard, hard ice, is already enough you give you a concussion.




Faster pucks mean obviously harder hits if the puck hits you. I admit, a soccer ball can hit you hard and MIGHT cause an injury. If a puck hits you though, again your figure, at “105 mph”, that is SURE to give you an injury. Take a peek at this video:


https://www.youtube.com...


OOF! The guy even has a visor on. That shows that in hockey, they need protection from all the flying pucks. But that protection doesn’t even work properly!




Lastly, if the play is moving around so fast, it is hard to track that extremely fast puck. Imagine trying to follow the puck from here: http://upload.wikimedia.org...



Hard Eh?



Toughness from round 2:




“A recent ESPN study concluded that ice hockey is the most demanding team sport in the world.”




COMPLETELY FALSE! Here is evidence that ESPN did the study and said that “he toughest sport in the world is . . .Boxing.” Source? Here: http://sports.espn.go.com...


My opponent is LYING!


So judges, this should be enough evidence as it is. BUT, I shall continue.




Toughness is not always good. Remember we are debating the best sport in general, not just the professional version of it. It Hockey, I agree, you need to be tougher, but is that a good thing? If you have to be durable, then that kinda shuts down the door for the people who are not tough enough doesn’t it? So if the professionals are tough, that doesn’t mean everyone is strong to absorb a check does it?




Uh….you are Pro, right? You have the point about hard Hockey is. For those who are 4, learning to play, easier is way better. If it is harder it narrows the window for playing hockey a lot for only the people who are the strongest and the best. Pretty narrow, eh?







Toughness from round 3:




Soccer players usually play 45 minutes in a row while hockey players go off and on in shifts of 60 seconds.




Soccer fields are bigger and and are not on ice, making the running bit much more difficult.




“A large field, a fast moving ball, and rare substitutions mean soccer players can expect to log some heavy mileage over 90-plus minutes. Midfielders tend to run the most, sometimes reaching nearly 9.5 miles”




https://www.youtube.com...


Tackles and spiked shoes are quite painful, so soccer players are durable as well. To doubt the toughness of soccer players is intellectually dishonest.




“Embellishment”




Diving, really?




http://bleacherreport.com...




That is 15 different dives in hockey.




Ever heard of Claude Lemieux?




https://www.youtube.com...




A little outdated, but still hilarious.




Players dive in both soccer and hockey. Deal with it. People cheat all the time, hockey, soccer, debates, board games, cheating is no reason to say one sport is better than another.




Accuracy:




May I point out that Hockey players use a stick that has been designed to be as accurate as possible, while soccer players only use their feet? If hockey players spent their time kicking a puck then we could compare the two, but the whole purpose of the hockey stick IS TO BE ACCURATE! It is almost rigged.




Time:




Alright, fine perhaps most soccer games are longer than hockey games, but in the NHL playoffs if the game is 0-0 then the game will continue for as long as it needs to until a goal is scored, meaning that the LONGEST HOCKEY GAME IS LONGER THAN THE LONGEST SOCCER GAME.




Also, imagine you are a fan of Soccer, or a fan of Hockey. Would you rather get the average game time of 90 minutes of watching your favorite team or would you rather have less time watching your favorite team. What’s more, you pay money for tickets. It’s better value for you ticket to see a longer game.




Scorring:




Again, I agree with you, there are more goals in hockey, but hockey goals are worth less than soccer goals. Why? It’s easier to score in hockey than it is to score in soccer. Another example is racing. There are more passes in indie races than F1, but F1 passes are more valuable.




Skill:




Um, no. Hockey players use a tool. IT’S CALLED A HOCKEY STICK. Soccer is difficult as well, I mean, on average soccer players run 7 miles in agame! That takes alot of skill.





Out of Bounds.




“Averages


Offsides: 16


Icings: 9


Goals: 5


Penalties: 5


TV Timeouts: 12


Incidental stoppages: 34 (non-penalized skirmishes, puck leaving rink, puck frozen, etc)”




That is a good amount of stoppages. Do remember that since according to you soccer games are longer, which means more stoppages.





Alright, I am very tired, and a little lazy, but I think I have done a good job.





Why we have won:




We have provided sufficient evidence for our side




We have successfully wrecked his points.




He had false evidence.






THANKS,


DDD




VOTE CON




References (for the whole debate)




http://en.wikipedia.org...


http://www.urmc.rochester.edu......


http://articles.sun-sentinel.com......


https://ca.answers.yahoo.com......


https://www.youtube.com......


http://www.fifa.com......


https://www.youtube.com...;


https://answers.yahoo.com...

Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
There is no dispute on my part that both are really strenuous. But I would rather watch paint dry than watch either one.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
This was a good debate. I look forward to an other debates against you in the future
Posted by pensfan 2 years ago
pensfan
that's ok. that's probably what he was saying.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
Sorry, I didn't mean to get mad. I guess the added three where the intermissions.
Posted by pensfan 2 years ago
pensfan
wow. calm down. I know personally from watching my whole life. 3 tv commercials during a period. that's a total of 9. I was not defending my side, just stating a fact.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
I personally trust the retired NHL scout who came up with those figures more than you. Also, you can't defend your side anymore. Don't start in the comments.
Posted by pensfan 2 years ago
pensfan
sorry. I have to correct this. there are only a total of 9 tv time outs through the whole game. 3 each period.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
Ik
Posted by birdlandmemories 2 years ago
birdlandmemories
These two sports are always so tough to choose between!
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
That can result in injuries. I will explain that later in the debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by birdlandmemories 2 years ago
birdlandmemories
pensfandynamicduodebatersTied
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Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: Very even. Sources were even, arguments were even, conduct was good on both sides, just a very even debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
pensfandynamicduodebatersTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: pro's fastness argument went against him, and con proved soccer players had a harder job than hockey players with their longer shifts, and how soccer is just as tough as hockey. Con also made a very good case for why soccer's skill almost reaches the hockey's skill, which is enough to guarantee their victory