The Instigator
Alduin
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

Home Schooling

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/7/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,697 times Debate No: 61395
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (3)

 

Alduin

Pro

Public schools are failing American kids.
lannan13

Con

Contention 1. Academics vs. Aging Society

What most people do not begin to realize is that we are living in an aging society and that technology is advancing way to fast. I are your parents good with a computer? The aging society is good with technology because it is advancing way to fast for them. Have you ever heard, "You can't teach an old dog new trick." This is what I mean, so sure they maybe smarter, but when it comes to the technological area where we have technology these kids are slacking. As you can see that as fast as technology is advancing that study is falling apart. (not only that but it's from 1997, 16 years ago) Children that are homeschooled are actually falling behind, why you may ask? It's because of the parenents/ teachers. As the kids education grows their parenent's are running out of things to teach. Not only that but it drives parenents crazy to be around their kids 24/7! It also takes away time and hurts the family budget. I mean here is that you are only going to have one parent working while the other is a stay at home teacher and thus not making any income and having to rely on their husband's/ wife's income to support everything, from groceries, car payment, house payment, gas, heating, etc... Thus it forces people into poverty hurting America!
(http://www.patheos.com...)
To be even more alarming kids in homeschools aren't taught enough about the outdoor world, as kids in school are taught just say no to drugs and say yes to roller skatting. get sucked into the bad life and offend get kidnapped or commit crimes ;

If you view the graph above you can see that some states do not regulate home schools allowing a small space for some to slip up and fall behind. You have to remember that not everyone is qualified to be a teacher.



C
ontention 2. Better Socially
Homeschoolers themselves say that they aren't socially integrated. Take me for instance being at a private school I was the most hated person, then after I made it to high school after being one year removed from being homeschooled I was and still am the most hated person here. You may say that's bull because you see that I'm really active on this website, but that's sadly because I honestly trust people on here more then some of my family members, not only that but I am accepted into the society that is debate.org even if I have a few oditities. You might say eh, you're just one kids so you don't count. Studies have shown that homeschooled kids hate their past and have yet to 'Grow Up.' (http://www.thedailybeast.com...) You are also faced with the problem of the children's attention span; some children really procrastinate during homeschool as they are all not the stereotypical homeschool children. Socialization is also a huge issue as it shows that the child will not receive the proper interaction with other children and this will hinder their future when they go out and apply for jobs. (http://www.examiner.com...) If you don't believe me on the Social awkwardness of a homeschoolers then take it from Sarah, Homeschoolers anonymous, "I was raised in a family where homeschooling wasn’t just the preferred method of education, but the only right one. Other than AYSO soccer, I had no social contact outside of church, family, and the homeschool umbrella group until I went to community college. This was when I discovered that I was socially retarded (yes that’s a technical term)." (http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com...)
In Homeschools, children also tend to adopt extreme beliefs and when they transfer into schools or the real world they are faced with opposing view points for the first time and this hurts them. (http://www.pbs.org...)
s
Debate Round No. 1
Alduin

Pro

If parents take their children's education seriously, then the technology argument is obsolete. There are tons of programs and websites that can test and challenge a student. The parent shouldn't nessiarly have to sit down at a table and write up problems for their kid to do in front of them. Sure they may not know what the latest gizmo that their kid is texting on, but the education system in America has not changed much throughout the years, particularly in the public school system. The means to learn is there, and if the kids are falling behind in Chicago, I suspect it's more of a family issue, rather than an educational one. But my origional point is that American kids are falling behind internationally, even though we spend almost 10K per student in the public school. So who is to blame? The money's there, but the kids don't learn.
lannan13

Con


My opponent states that we have failed public schools, but if that is true then why does the US have 2 schools in the top 5 colleges in the world? (http://www.deanstalk.net...) Or here in this graph were the US has 3 in the top 5 and 6 out of 10 of the world's best vocationial schools.






My opponent's claim reguarding the children failing based on their situation at home helps my case as it shows the atmosphere at the homeschools are dangeriously terrible for the chilren and when you add in the fact that there is several states that do not regulate homeschools is leads to a terrible education for the children. Cross extend my chart I brought up last round where the children expierence abuse at home you can see that the children have nowhere to turn to for help and they are left like a fish without water.

Some turn to homeschooling after a bullying problem, but here I will site Pschologist Izzie Kalman. She says, "Homeschooling is a poor way to try to remedy a bullying problem. The children will learn absolutely nothing about why they are having the problem and how to solve it. If they go back to the same school, the problem is likely to recur. Sometimes a school change will solve the problem, so I prefer that as a solution rather than homeschooling.The absolutely best solution is for the kids to be taught how to stop being bullied on their own."
Debate Round No. 2
Alduin

Pro

U.S. students aren't catching up to their peers in other industrialized countries. A report recently published by Harvard (your #1 school on your list) University's Program on Education Policy and Governance found that students in Latvia, Chile and Brazil are making gains in academics three times faster than American students, while those in Portugal, Hong Kong, Germany, Poland, Liechtenstein, Slovenia, Colombia and Lithuania are improving at twice the rate. Researchers estimate that gains made by students in those 11 countries equate to about two years of learning. What gains U.S. students posted in recent years are "hardly remarkable by world standards," according to the report. Although the U.S. is not one of the nine countries that lost academic ground for the 14-year period between 1995 and 2009, more countries were improving at a rate significantly faster than that of the U.S. (Researchers looked at data for 49 countries). The study's findings echo years of rankings that show foreign students outpacing their American peers academically. Students in Shanghai who recently took international exams for the first time outscored every other school system in the world. In the same test, American students ranked 25th in math, 17th in science and 14th in reading. (And these are supposed to be the best students America has to offer). A 2009 study found that U.S. students ranked 25th among 34 countries in math and science, behind nations like China, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong and Finland. Figures like these have groups like StudentsFirst, headed by former D.C. schools chancellor Michelle Rhee (aka the "Teacher Terminator"), concerned and calling for reforms to "our education system [that] can't compete with the rest of the world." Just 6 percent of U.S. students performed at the advanced level on an international exam administered in 56 countries in 2006. That proportion is lower than those achieved by students in 30 other countries. American students' low performance and slow progress in math could also threaten the country's economic growth, experts have said from the Harvard study. (Your top school is admitting that American schools are failing).

Here's one bit from the study:

"Because rates of economic growth have a huge impact on the future well-being of the nation, there is a simple message: A country ignores the quality of its schools at its economic peril. Some would excuse the mediocre U.S. performance by claiming that it provides a more equal education to a much more diverse population than other countries do. It is claimed that test scores in the United States are lower than those in many other countries because they are not providing an education to all their students. That argument might have made some sense 50 or 75 years ago, but it is a seriously dated view of the world."

Stateside, districts, states and the U.S. Department of Education are fighting to close large achievement gaps. The federal government has made hefty financial commitments to education in recent years, including the implementation of No Child Left Behind and the subsequent waivers from the standards-based law as well as the influx of about $89 billion in stimulus dollars to prevent teacher layoffs, keep class sizes down and avoid program cuts. Still, the Harvard study found little correlation between increased per-pupil spending and gains in test scores. A similar analysis by 24/7 Wall St. last July yielded similar results. In 2009, the U.S. spent more than $10,000 per student, ranging from $6,356 in Utah to $18,126 in New York. Utah's high school graduation rate, however, was higher than New York's. And Harvard's report isn't even taking the OECD reports into account. And those researchers have been tracking America's school progress since the 1990s. It's always the same: More spending, no achievement.

Now that we know that the public school is getting more and more outta wack, let's target home and Charter schools. There are now over 2.04 million kids being homeschooled in America, a 75% increase from 1999. In the same report from Harvard that's listed above, the careers of the parents of homeschoolers were examined. 17.3% of the parents had a career in engineering and accounting, 16.9% held professions in law, medicine, and teaching, and 10.7% were business owners. The homeschooling eventually pairs off, as their test scores were compared to the test scores of the students in the school zone that the families were listed in. The results are mind blowing.

Out of 100%, here's what the homeschool kids scored vs the public school kids on their state tests:

In Reading: 89% vs 50%
In Language:84% vs 72%
In Math: 74% vs 42%
In Science: 86% vs 77%
In Social Studies: 66% vs 34%

Needless to say, a homeschooled student is 2.34% more likely to get into college compared to their public school counterparts. There is one major downside to homeschooling: lack of peers. "When it comes to relationships and bonding, homeschooled kids suffer. But when the United States is ranked at what it is in terms of student performance, perhaps it's time to get better acquainted with the textbook, rather than the party." sums up one of the researchers.

So we see public schools and home schools. They both have flaws, but what if you want the education quality of a homeschooler, and the peer on peer interaction of a public school. Well we are a free market society, and once again, the free market has the answer. New "Charter Schools" are popping up in America and bashing the stagnant methods of the public schools wide open. This has, however attracted the wrath of both the Teachers Union and the government monopoly of researchers, both of whom are keen to destroy anything that threatens them. Year after year, the government releases smearing reports and bad results, while the teachers unions protest the working conditions and lack of tenure. But is any of this true? Are kids in these new experimental schools really getting a sub-par education? The answer is no. In actuality, students are outperforming both public and homeschooled kids. And they are spending thousands of dollars less to do it. That's because charter schools are run by private profit driven owners, who have to compete for students. If a charter school fails it's students, then the parents can send their child to a different charter school. This ensures that bad schools close, and incompetent teachers are fired. This outrages the teachers unions, who are protected by tenure. Tenure is a fancy word for being "un-fireable". If a principal wants to fire a teacher, he has to jump through hoops to do so. The union contract is 600 pages of fine print long, after all. Take this example: A teacher in New York was caught sending sexually explicit photos to one of his 16 year old female students. It took the school board 5 years, over $614,000 in legal fees, plus they had to pay his $300,000 dollar salary just to fire him. The total cost to terminate him: $2,114,000 Why on earth does it cost that much? Because of his union contract. He thankfully will not be able to teach again, but in a unionized public school, teachers are near impossible to get rid of. This hurts not only our international standing, but also the students and families. This doesn't happen at a charter school though. At charters, teachers can be fired at the drop of a dime. It may seem unfair, but if the school wants to succeed, then bad employees have to go. That's not the only new thing about charter schools though. Parents are so eager to enroll their children that the school has to hold lotteries to determine which kids to admit. Some get lucky but sadly, most do not as they are forced to enroll their children into poorly performing schools assigned to them by their zip code. Once again innovation and the free market blossom, while monopolized industries fail to improve and leave America in the dust.
lannan13

Con

Contention 1: School and gains




From the state of Alaska, which does not regulate homeschools, we can see that they scroed less than public schools in the "Advanced "Range. Homeschoolers are represented by the blue and have only 28% compared to the 43% of Public Schools.


Here is another chart, but this one is on the three core subjects, and we can see in Reading, Writting, and Math that the public schools have defeated the homeschoolers. (http://politicsofchildhood.org...)

My opponent states that the US is lagging in world-wide education, but the US is actually increasing in their Global Educationial rankings as they climbed from 20th to 17th. Though it does not seem like much the US educatioinial system is actually improving. (http://www.ibtimes.com...) I have also provided key recent evidence and my opponent has yet to provide evidence, so my source and argument is more valid.

Statistics of the education of homeschooling parents.

This graph here shows that 61% of people that teach homeschoolers do not have a degree and this can hamper the teaching epierence that the children recieve as 100% of teachers at public schools have to have a teaching degree in order to teach, so you can see the great teaching difference in terms of skills. When you cross-apply my evidence for the public schools out preforming the homeschoolers you can see that there is a reason behind all of this. (http://everydaylife.globalpost.com...)

Drops

My opponent has dropped several key points in this debate.

-Contention 2

-Homeschools abuse

-Homeschool extremism

-US has top colleges compared to other countries

-Most states do not regulate homeschooling

-Homeschools can hurt a family financially

-Homeschooling causes cabin fevor

-Homeschooling doesn't help the bullying problem

My opponent has not shown how homeschools are better than public schools and have dropped tons of arguments showing that the homeschooling system is terrible and not a great envirnment.

I thank you and urge you to vote Con!
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
Just to repost here:

Don't cheat, Pro--and plagiarism is cheating.

Pro's source as far as I can tell, that he never cites (as FaustianJustice noted, but didn't give the source):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Posted by FaustianJustice 2 years ago
FaustianJustice
How much can you pull directly from another source without quote or citation before you aren't arguing your case anymore?
Posted by Jackthemarine86 2 years ago
Jackthemarine86
This is a fascinating debate when one considers personal experience in this department. I spent the majority of my childhood being home-schooled, and associated with many other children who spent the majority of their childhood educated the same way.

In a nutshell, as far as I can tell, we have all exceeded the expectations, academically and vocationally, of those who raised us, and those criticized our upbringing.

The majority of us graduated early, and those of us who went to college graduated with high honors. Some of us are still pursing higher levels of education. Some of us are experiencing very successful military careers.

In my experience, the level of education for the parent is beside the point. The majority of home-school curriculum possesses clear, concise instructions guiding the student in completing assignments. Parents are provided with answer keys containing clear, concise examples and guidance on assisting students. If anything, not having a teacher in front of a blackboard forced me to exercise some major mental prowess, and afforded me the opportunity to be more independent as a student. It's one thing to be formally taught Algebra. It's more impressive when you teach yourself by simply reading, observing examples, and following instructions to solve complex Algebra problems.

I'm afraid I have to go with Pro on this debate. I think it's pretty pathetic the majority of young adults graduating high school cannot express themselves on paper without writing like they speak. I think it's even more pathetic to have an officer who went through four years of college demonstrate their inability to properly spell their own rank.
Posted by Alduin 2 years ago
Alduin
Think about this before you vote: If public schools are good, then why are American kids educationally inferior compared to their European and Asian counterparts? 17th place on the world scale won't get any medals.
Posted by ruthpumarejo 2 years ago
ruthpumarejo
youth*
Posted by ruthpumarejo 2 years ago
ruthpumarejo
check out the simon yojth foundation mall schools which offer an alternstive way to graduate highschool and earn a diploma. i think that traditional highschool nor homeschooling is a good idea
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
Alduinlannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: huge plagiarism of arguments by pro
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
Alduinlannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: How unfortunate that Con was stuck debating a plagiarist. Conduct for the plagiarism. Pro's source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/us-students-still-lag-beh_n_1695516.html . That's pretty much the entirety of his most substantive round--I'm tempted to award S&G, but there seems to be at least SOME of his own words in there in R2. Sourcing, for sure, based on the LACK of sourcing from Pro, and certainly, not only is Con's argument more rigorous, it also is his own. Pro, in the future, try not to cheat--and plagiarizing is cheating. Lifting someone else's article entirely without ever sourcing it is pretty clearly cheating.
Vote Placed by FaustianJustice 2 years ago
FaustianJustice
Alduinlannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Plagarized sources, no citation for statistics given. This should be a FF.