The Instigator
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
vasarta
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Homophobia is beneficial to many heterosexuals

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
vasarta
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/26/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 411 times Debate No: 81571
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

Homophobia is beneficial to many heterosexuals because homophobes are less likely to befriend gays in which decreases the chance of experiencing unwanted crushes from gays, unwanted friendship issues from gays and unwanted sexual advances from gays.

Homophobia is rooted in unwanted sexual advances (Pirlott, Angela et al)

Homophobia rooted in disgust, not fear. (Olatunji et AL 2001)

Beneficial -
favorable or advantageous; resulting in good.

'Straight crush stories'
Ellen Friedrichs, LGBT Teens Expert

'Can I turn my crush gay'
Ellen Friedrichs, LGBT Teens Expert

'5 types of straight crushes'
Ellen Friedrichs, LGBT Expert
vasarta

Con

I accept this argument.

First of all, we have to establish an axiom. This axiom is something that we both probably agree with and that is that Homosexuality like many other things, is an inborn nature. Homophobia is something that comes from fear. Fear of something that is different then what we "the individual" believes to be normal or good. A bigoted person is anyone who hates, fears or refuses to accept members of a particular group of people ( such as racial or religious ) especially to those groups of people are not inherently dangerous to those around them or spread messages of hate and intolerance themselves.

After all, there is nothing inherently wrong with homosexuality. Sex, relationships and marriage is love;which is precisely what this is all about. Everyone has the right to love whom they want and how they want as long as it does not harm each other or those around them. To hate, to despise, to fear them and call their love wrong and sick is fundamentally and morally flawed as there is no reason to believe such a way. After all, gay people are not making straight people gay, because gay is not a choice but a simple matter of inborn nature. The same applies to bisexual, transgender and all of the other members of the LGBT community.

Even if homosexuality could be medically attributed by a credible medical and scientific authority, to be peer reviewed and resolved within the scientific community, it in no way diminish my argument. They are still human beings who love each other and want to be together and no one should take that away from them or make them feel bad because of that.
Debate Round No. 1
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

I don't think we agree on anything.

The largest and most reliable study on twins shows homosexuality is caused by mostly unique reactions to environmental factors including but not limited to sexual abuse, experimentation, childhood gender nonconformity, biological randomness, gay pornography, bad experiences with the opposite sex, child abuse, ect.

Neither Genes nor Choice:
Same-Sex Attraction Is Mostly a Unique Reaction to Environmental Factors
[Journal of Human Sexuality 3:81-114 (2011)]
by Neil E. Whitehead8

According to Olantunji, homophobia is rooted in disgust, NOT fear.
Fear and disgust are not the same. They come from two different places.

As a homophobe myself, I'm not afraid of gays at all. My homophobia has nothing to do with "fear of the unknown" because what the largest twin studies show is what I assumed. Therefore, I knew more about the causes of homosexuality than people who weren't homophobes., in 2009, I was kicked out of an atheist forum because I said homosexuality could be caused by sexual abuse. Come to find out, I was correct all alone. I also assumed the causes of homosexuality may have something to do with childhood experiences. Come to find out, I was right about that too. I was always ahead of my time and I'm still ahead of my time. Homophobia is an evolutionary disease avoidance behavior. Maybe in another 60 years, the rest of the world will catch up with me.

Homosexuality is inherently bad because the human anatomy does not sit well with homosexual behavior. Homosexuality increases the risk of some of the most deadliest illnesses including but not limited to HIV, cancer and syphilis. Any behavior that could stop an STD from being eliminated and trigger another STD epidemic should be downplayed and never embraced. This should be common sense.

I don't care what gays do with each other but homosexuality should most definitely be stigmatized. In other words, I think it should be legal but discouraged because of the health concerns. I think we should be treated like smoking.cigarettes. smoking is legal but is also discouraged and downplayed
vasarta

Con

"I don't think we agree on anything."

Well I can agree with that which means we can agree on something which makes this statement partially false.

Yes, environmental factors have shown in some studies to play a key on what physical attributes people would likely develop, but even that is not verified completely as there are plenty of examples of people whom fall outside of the social norm. If environmental factor was an absolute, then no one ,and I mean no one would ever fall outside of the social normal for what their sexuality is, who they like or what they like. For example, if we take some of the most homophobic countries on the planet, Uganda, Saudi Arabia for example; places where homosexuals are executed and the environment is extremely hostile to homosexuals. We would expect that in such an environment that homosexuality would be impossible. Yet, all around the world, where homophobia is present in both parents, the neighbors, the society and the enforcement through death is prevalent, we see plenty of homosexuals.

Twins are no different then normal human beings. Why would the outcome of two twins being different be any argument for environment? They are no different then a brother and sister, or a cousin and his neighbor. Environment plays a important roll in what shapes our personality, but not our sexuality. Environment might play a role in what aspects that person might find attractive in the gender their nature decrees likable, but not the actual gender itself. An example of this is in middle ages or perhaps before it, it was quite common to find large females with big bodies ( Fat people ) to be the most desirable because it was a status of wealth as they could afford all the meat and sugary food the peasants couldn't. Wealth was sexy and being fat was how they showed it. Today, it opposite is mostly true around the world but even then and now, we find would could had found people all over who varied from that and found many other things more desirable then what the common environment found desirable.

Here I will leave in quotations and then comment on what you had posted.

"Homosexuality is inherently bad because the human anatomy does not sit well with homosexual behavior. Homosexuality increases the risk of some of the most deadliest illnesses including but not limited to HIV, cancer and syphilis. Any behavior that could stop an STD from being eliminated and trigger another STD epidemic should be downplayed and never embraced. This should be common sense."

Oh really? I dare say, the people from Africa who are violently at the majority against homosexuality would say differently.
No my friend, anyone who says that homosexuality increases the risk of std's should be laughed off the stage. Not using proper protection, not being informed of safe sex practices and just being a whore is what increases the chance of things like HIV. Furthermore, you stated or perhaps this was from the paper the person you quoted had written. Stated that Cancer was a risk of being homosexual? I would really like to see his medical research on this please. Peer reviewed and accepted into the medical field as a fact. Because sex and cancer have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You cannot contract Cancer by having sex with ANYONE. Cancer is not an STD.

There is nothing wrong health wise with homosexuality as long as both partners are committed to the same sex practices as any heterosexual couples do. There simply is no credible evidence to health risks for being homosexual in the medical field.

Finally, to clarify, a phobia does not necessarily have to be purely out of fear. You can still find disgust in the thing you despise, but never-the-less, it doesn't escape from the fact that it still is a misguided view on that part of sexuality.
Debate Round No. 2
BlackHomophobicAtheists

Pro

First of all, there's absolutely nothing wrong with disgust. Better yet, disgust is good for us because it's an evolutionary disease avoidance behavior. Disgust is not a result of being misguided. Disgust is a built-in defense system. zz

It's funny that the only places where gays are not known to have the highest rates of HIV are places where gays are afraid to admit that they are gay. Gays in most African countries are pretending to be straight so you don't really know what the hiv rates are among gays.

South Africa is one of the few African countries where gays admit to being gay. Guess what? Half of the gay men in some parts of South Africa are infected with HIV

"Durban"s 48.2% HIV rate among MSM"
HALF????

Looks like gays can no longer use Africa as the scapegoat...

There's a worldwide HIV epidemic among gay men. Therefore, something has to be wrong with homosexuality. Gays literally Brought back syphilis and prevented it from being eliminated. Nobody in their right mind would think nothing is wrong with this behavior.

Now come on back to the original claims.

According to dating expert Ellen Friedrich, Gays develop crushes on their heterosexual friends. Therefore, homophobes don't have to deal with this problem because they won't befriend gays in the first place. therefore, homophobia is beneficial to many heterosexuals

Gay and bisexual women have higher rates of bacterial vaginosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Lesbians are more likely to be depressed because semen is good for WOMENS' health and helps fight depression.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Gay women have higher rates of mental health issues including depression

https://www.lifesitenews.com...

Gay women are more likely to be overweight

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Gay women are more likely to develop breast cancer

Study shows women who get pregnant in their twenties decrease the risk of breast cancer. Gay women are less likely to get pregnant in their twenties and even less likely to get pregnant at all compared to heteroexual women.

http://www.breastcancer.org...

Gay men triggered the hiv epidemic
http://youtu.be...

Gay men brought back syphilis and triggered the syphillis epidemic after it was nearly eliminated
http://m.huffpost.com...

Half of all gay men in the largest city in South Africa are infected with HIV

http://mg.co.za...

Hiv is decreasing among heterosexuals but increasing alarmingly among gays

http://thewestsidestory.net...

In 2010, gays made up 72% of all new HIV infections

In 2013, gays made up 81% of all new HIV infections

http://www.cdc.gov...

In 2012, gays made up 84% of syphilis cases.

In 2013, gays made up 91% of syphilis cases

http://www.m.webmd.com...

Study: Biology Leaves gay men highly vulnerable to HIV
According to Unaids, Hiv is more common among gay men in all areas of the world including Africa"

http://health.usnews.com...

Shigella outbreak among gay and bisexual men

http://www.cdc.gov...

New drug resistant gonorrhea striking gay men
http://dailyxtra.com...

New Deadly meningitis striking gay men
http://americablog.com...

Hepatitis C rising among gay men
http://www.natap.org...

New flesh eating bacterial strain striking gay men
http://www.nytimes.com...

A rare disease, (Lymphograunuloma venereum) striking gay men
http://psychcentral.com...

A rare parasitic disease striking gay men
http://www.sciencedaily.com...

Sexually active Gay teens at a high risk of hpv. In other words, when gay teens act on their homosexual behavior, it's not good for them.
> > > > http://america.aljazeera.com...

High rates of hpv among gay men
http://mobile.aidsmap.com...

Anal cancer rising among gay men
http://www.m.webmd.com...

Study shows most women who are infected with hiv contracted it from a bisexual man
http://www.hivplusmag.com...
vasarta

Con

You said.
"First of all, there's absolutely nothing wrong with disgust. Better yet, disgust is good for us because it's an evolutionary disease avoidance behavior. Disgust is not a result of being misguided. Disgust is a built-in defense system. zz"

Cool! So is disgust in interracial couples, but being racist does not benefit anything.

Also said,

"It's funny that the only places where gays are not known to have the highest rates of HIV are places where gays are afraid to admit that they are gay. Gays in most African countries are pretending to be straight so you don't really know what the hiv rates are among gays."

That is complete bullocks. The highest rates for HIV and Aids are in countries where rape and education are at their lowest.
The vast majority of people with an std are heterosexual couples, not gay ones. It is true that the nature of sex such as penetration does increase the likelihood of certain types of std's. However the vast VAST majority of people who have them are straight. Even if you take the same number of gay people and same number of straight people, all of them have the same per capita chance of contracting any given disease. Some diseases more so then others due to their nature, but none the less the same chance.

You have never made any attempt on stating any reason why being afraid and hateful towards gays has ever, nor would ever be beneficial to heterosexuals. Why would we? WE don't have to have sex with them. If a gay person flirts with you, just do what any woman would do when a guy she doesn't like flirts with her and tell him to get lost. What does gay sex have anything to do with you? Me? Or ANY heterosexual since we are not the ones who are doing it?

The spread of HIV in Africa is due to low education, law enforcement and religion which is the main problem. Such as the rise of Christianity or Catholicism in Uganda which has breed millions to be fanatical gay executing fanatics who believe that contraceptives are Satan's tools for murder and few have any idea how to protect themselves. Your quote on gays being too afraid to speak up is complete bunk as well. Basically, all you have done is reach for a few bits of medical notes and given no reasons other then gays are icky and I don't like them and they get aids so we should murder all of them and be afraid of them by showing off a few Bias medical journals written by who knows who.

It also does not follow that in your previous arguments that because environment "may" be a cause for homosexuality in some minor cases such as abuse or some other reason, that it is the primary cause for homosexuality instead of just being an inborn nature for the vast majority. Only roughly 10% of our species is homosexual. A simple no thank you to any advances will surface. Giving people a proper education in places like south Africa, the middle east and in the lower states, fighting back against Christians and Islamic religions who indoctrinate people with the idea that condoms are evil or that preventive medicine is murder is the best way to reduce and eventually eradicate std's.

I am eradicated all aspects of your argument. Your main points are that Gays are gross and I don't like them and your desperate search for any bit of scientific "proof" that can help support your religious bigotry that you have left over from your parents or community left inside that mind of yours. Advances to a heterosexual can be solved with a simple no thank you, so that argument is done and now you have nothing left.

No where in your argument have you a single point as to why homophobia is beneficial to me or any other heterosexual.
If let's say that homophobia had a benefit, we cannot ignore all of the social problems that being automatically and actively disgusted by 10% of the population would have which is a DETRIMENT to society and human kind no matter what their sexuality is - Not a benefit.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
That would explain the many losses this debater receives.
Posted by vasarta 1 year ago
vasarta
What is hilarious here is that pretty much every single debate you have ever done on here is the exact same thing. Its quite pathetic really. It just proves you are looking for verification for your own bias by any and all means necessary. I wouldn't be surprised if you started to copy and past all three of your rounds on each one of these or do so in the future.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
Arguments to Con.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
If you don't think you lost, then report the vote, and let the moderators decide; they are unbiased.

Yes, I am biased however, I removed my bias from the debate and got technical with the resolution. The resolution required that Pro shows that homophobia is beneficial, when what makes homophobia beneficial, according to Pro, can be used without homophobia as Con successfully pointed out and which Pro never could refute. I actually think that if you could have refuted Con's last round, this debate would swing your way actually; this speaks to the fact that you should make round rules.

"Therefore, homophobes are benefiting from refusing to befriend gays."

Con demonstrated that refusing to allow intimacy, friendship or otherwise, can be done irrespective of homophobia. Pro never refutes this, thus the resolution is rejected.
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
People don't have to be homophobes to avoid befriending gays but homophobia will most definitely cause a person to not befriend gays. Therefore, your claim is irrelevant. Better yet, a part of the definition of homophobia is an 'aversion to' in which is disgust. Disgust is an avoidance behavior. Therefore, avoiding gays is considered homophobia according to the definition of homophobia.

Again, the reason for your vote is not even valid. You're completely biased
Posted by BlackHomophobicAtheists 1 year ago
BlackHomophobicAtheists
Of course you're biased since the only voter is biased, I don't think I lost. Also, gays usually become heterosexuals friends before they come on to them. Not one study shows gays regularly flirt with heterosexuals Who are strangers. on the other hand, an expert admits that gays commonly develop straight crushes on their heterosexual friends. Therefore, homophobes are benefiting from refusing to befriend gays. One vote from a bias gay doesn't mean I lost
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
RFD 1
Conduct was fine both sides S&G did not affect either side's arguments. Con had no sources, Pro did and they were reliable despite his misinterpretations of them, so Sources to Pro.
For the resolution, Pro had to prove a benefit of homophobia for MANY heterosexuals. Pro's reasons:
1. homophobia reduces unwanted homosexual advances/crushes.
2. homophobia reduces contracting STDs common to gays.

If Con is able to refute these successfully, we reject the resolution, and if Con does not, we must affirm.

1. Pro says "According to dating expert Ellen Friedrich, Gays develop crushes on their heterosexual friends. Therefore, homophobes don't have to deal with this problem because they won't befriend gays in the first place. therefore, homophobia is beneficial to many heterosexuals"

Con rebutted "If a gay person flirts with you, just do what any woman would do when a guy she doesn't like flirts with her and tell him to get lost."

Con's refute is not challenged, and it highlights Pro's neglect that there are unwanted sexual advances and crushes from gays who are not your friend, like some rando in Con's example. This negates the likelihood claim of a heterosexual without gay friends, because the unwanted advances and crushes can come from non-friends and these can be eschewed by a homophobe or a non-homophobe without any greater/less likelihood.

2. Pro cites a litany of studies, which were relevant, and uses them to show that gays have a higher likelihood of having STDs. This is used to show that homophobic avoidance of gays reduces a heterosexual's likelihood of contracting these STDs.

Con's round 2 point "not using proper protection, not being informed of safe sex practices and just being a whore is what increases the chance of things like HIV." and further in round 3 "[heterosexuals] don't have to have sex with [gays]."

While I agree that no source was provided, this contention is not addressed by Pro ever. Pro never acknowledges that this
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
RFD Part 2
...can be done without homophobia. Con exploits this point with no refute from Pro.

By Con showing that one could avoid unwanted sexual advances and STDs without homophobia, illustrates that the benefits of this avoidance are not specific to or more likely with homophobia, rather knowledge, and good decision making can yield these benefits.
hence arguments to Con.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Peepette 1 year ago
Peepette
BlackHomophobicAtheistsvasartaTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con counter pointed well against Pros argument that environmental factors contributed to homosexuality. Also again, with the credibility of the articles Con referenced. Cons statement that disgust is an evolutionary avoidance reaction, has no validating source, just a personal opinion. Cons assertions that Pro never made his point that homophobia is beneficial to heterosexuals because what gays do does not affect heterosexuals, therefore homophobia serves no purpose.
Vote Placed by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
BlackHomophobicAtheistsvasartaTied
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Total points awarded:23 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments