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Homosexuality and Religion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 497 times Debate No: 85233
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
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Such a controversial topic that gives a bad name to both Christians and Homosexuals alike; is being gay a sin? There are a few factors that have decided my overall opinion on this topic, but first a few things that you should know before you read my judgement. (1) I was born and raised a Lutheran (a sect of Christianity) and attended church every Sunday until I was 20yrs old. (2) I was a dedicated believer in the idea that being gay was a sin so much so that I advocated against it until high school. (3) After reading the passages again and again I have ultimately decided that being gay is NOT a sin.

The Religion Behind It: The first thing anyone has to understand is that when the word "man" was used in the Old Testament, it referred to the human race and not just men. Women had no real presence in the Old Testament save for a few notable ones such as Esther and Sara. Because of this undeniable fact there is a good possibility that both the men and women of Sodom and Gomorrah were included in this passage. For those of you unfamiliar, I suggest you read up on the passage ( But let us for a moment forget gender in this passage and take a look at the actions of the people in this city. They DEMANDED that the two traveling men be released to the public so that they could have sex with them. If you think about it (and I hope you don't have to think too hard) what deplorable action do these demands reflect? Let me give you a hint: rape.

Now we weigh the crime of rape against the crime of homosexuality which are clearly two different crimes. It is true that God judges all sins equally, but while one is undeniably a sin the other is still up for debate. God repeatedly tells us throughout the Bible that He loves all of his children equally. This includes the bad ones: Lucifer, Judas, if God can forgive a murderer and love him/her, can he not also love a homosexual?

Here Are My Thoughts: I believe, and I have spent hours debating the subject with myself and with others both religious and non-religious, both heterosexual and homosexual, and with those who had no opinion, that God did not destroy the two cities because men were having sex with men. I believe that God destroyed the cities because they were raping people. Demanding that travelers be given to the city to be forced into a sexual confrontation against their own will (never mind that Lot even offered up his own daughters, that's an argument for another time) was the true sin that ended in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. These are two COMPLETELY different offenses.

Being gay is not a sin, it is not a birth defect, it is a lifestyle choice that does no harm to anything or anyone around it. To love someone is to be greater than that of a person who hates someone. As Christians we should remember that it is not our place to judge anyone much less make a public statement of outrage against it. Homosexuals are some of the most peaceful and loving groups of people I have ever encountered, although there are those that really put a bad name on their people much like those of us Christians who put our religion in a bad light. We shouldn't judge someone for loving another as God has taught us to.


I thank Sincerely_Millennial for the opportunity. Also, I thank the witnesses who will be voting.

As for my introductory argument, am I to assume that my position is that homosexuality IS a sin as well as the compatibility of homosexuality and religion? Very well.

Sinner Pride is my motto. Christians are ashamed to be Christians, as well they should be. If boring sermons are Jesus' plan for salvation, then it's time for anti-sermon.

Homosexuality being a sin doesn't have to be a moral disadvantage for the LGBTQ community. The personality phenomenon of gay culture is a rather peculiar occurrence, therefore something Christians should be researching, not avoiding homophobically.

Homophobia is unique to humanity, it would seem. That alone has grounds for supernatural potential. Biblical scale miracles have been absent for two millennia. This relates to my moral advantage argument. Christians are so obsessed about throwing stones at homosexuals that they should be noticing that homosexuals are turning those stones into bread, bread that they can consume for the time being.

Embracing gay sin might seem counter-intuitive AND counterproductive, but at least pretending to be the bigger person and cooperating with a homophobic Church would be turning the other cheek. Depending on where you draw the line in this war, using Christian morality against them seems to be the only thing that could make them open their minds.

As for rebutting the last points of the PRO's argument, I contend that just because it's a lifestyle, does not mean it is exempt from being classified as immoral. That implies that if a lifestyle were just perpetual sin, then Christians are justified in their supreme disgust of it. Jesus stated that lust counts as adultery; adultery counts as sin, especially now that gay marriage has gained traction. Gay lust is basically gay puberty.

I didn't start until I was 22, 23. I am capable of gay lust. I entertain it. So I do have personal authority and legitimacy to speak on this matter.
Debate Round No. 1


(I am new to this site, so if I say something weird or out-of-place forgive me)

To say that "Sinner Pride" is your motto is not a very good argument. The word "sinner" encompasses a whole range of actions, not just homosexuality (which again I argue isn't a sin). You do, however, have a valid point in saying that 'Christians are ashamed to be Christians...' in the sense that, yes there are those of us who no longer like to associate ourselves with our religion anymore. But it's not because we are ashamed of our religion, it is because we are ashamed of the extremists that use our religion to fight against the most basic rights of every individual and that is the right to love whoever they choose to love (those accused being the Westborough Baptist Church and its supporters).

Using the "Sinner Pride" motto is in fact a disadvantage to the LGBT community because you are voluntarily acknowledging the fact that what you are doing is wrong. But being gay isn't wrong and why should anyone say it is? And if you tell people that you believe homosexuality is a sin and that you take pride in knowing that it is a sin, what is to stop people from thinking of what other kinds of sins you choose to commit let alone homosexuality?

I think the term "homophobia" is inappropriately used and considered to be a true term, but phobia doesn't relate to a feeling of hatred or religious beliefs. 'A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.' Hating someone who is homosexual because of your religious beliefs doesn't make you homophobic, it just makes you prejudice which isn't the same thing.

Embracing homosexuality isn't the equivalent of embracing a sin and it isn't counterproductive. If you want to prove to the Christian community that you are not a sinner, then you must act in the way you believe is right. Love one another as you love yourself. Embrace your homosexuality, but don't think of it as a sin. If you believe that what you are doing is wrong and you do it anyways, you are never going to convince anyone to approve of your lifestyle.


Allow me to elaborate and defend the simplistic phrase I coined. Sinner Pride implies that I concede all sin; that includes hypocrisy. Which allows me to exclude sins I do deem counterproductive to my cause.

Your insistence on homosexuality not being a sin is like refusing to play a game on the basis that you want to rewrite the rules. Which is fine by me if you have the logical authority. If you are going to defy the Christian system of labeling immoral acts, you might as well go big or go home. To make an impact on the stubborn Christian mind, you must be willing to look wrong, which is not the same as being wrong. I do not seek approval. I seek acknowledgment that I am onto something.

I think Christians compartmentalize the genetic being gay versus gay acts, even though sin is genetic; how else would it perpetuate itself among humanity? Again, I reiterate that Jesus indirectly outed homosexuality as a sin by casting lust under the same umbrella as adultery. In order to disprove my claim, you have to sever the connection between this and gay feelings.

Homophobia may not be a legitimate phobia, but it is the strongest weapon against the Christians. Being afraid of homophobia and damage to their reputation and social respect can be essential to countering the bombardment of hate they do not hesitate to spew. Since America is changing its mind about homosexuality, Christians who think the US is a Christian nation are in for a rude awakening. If that's what Christian America is about, we're better off otherwise.
Debate Round No. 2


I'm not changing the rules of the game, I'm saying that new rules were written, replacing the old ones. It is true that all of us are sinners, but sin is not a genetic mutation or inheritance, sin is a choice that we all knowingly participate in. You can choose to sin or you can choose to not sin, but we are not all perfect. You can't choose, however, who you love. It is a feeling that you have no control over. Being gay is not a sin, it is not a genetic defect, it is not a choice, it is a preference. Much like vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Just because you like chocolate more than vanilla doesn't make you a criminal....the companies that make vanilla ice cream aren't going to go out of business because you eat chocolate, there are plenty of other people in the world that like vanilla.

To disprove your claim I must sever the connection between adultery and homosexuality together as a sin? Wasn't the basis of my argument that homosexuality is in fact NOT a sin? So then why would homosexuality and adultery be under the same umbrella if one is a sin and the other is not?

You talk of homophobia as a weapon against the Christians, but this isn't a fight that should even exist. If your opinion differs from that of another, you don't fight them to convince them of your views you acknowledge the difference and move on your way. With the decline of Christianity as a religion (although it is still thought to be one of the largest religions), the fact that a small group of people make a ruckus about homosexuality and their beliefs on it shouldn't affect any in the LGBT community because the number of people that support the LGBT or have no opinion greatly outnumber those who are against it. Why would you lead a war that you've already won? Why do you need to fight against a small group that barely makes a ripple in the community? Because someone said they didn't like your boyfriend/girlfriend? They say that to the heterosexuals they don't like either.

Homophobia is such an insignificant argument that has been blow way out of proportion because these people feel a childish need to retaliate to nothing more than a common school bully who called you a loser. And we don't think the the U.S. as a Christian nation, we think of it as a nation FOUNDED on Christian beliefs and practices which is in fact true. It's quite obvious that since our founding fathers escaped the crown to practice their religion in peace that we have come a long way and change many of our views.


Lust is sin. ALL lust is sin. Selecting which lust is sinful and the other being innocent is rather cherry picking. Dubious and suspicious. I hold myself accountable for it all. Your insistence on homosexuality as not a sin is not founded on an objectively logical basis. It is simply inconvenient and the last fortified position Christians have as a stronghold. As long as the desire for the label's removal is based on an offended preference, then the Christians will perceive the defiance as simply immature. Very few groups of people who identify themselves as a type of sinner have such a vehement objection towards their labeling as much as the homosexuals do. They know they have no advantage because they recognize the accuracy of the accusation. Their struggle is not as public as the LGBTQ community's, at least. Only atheists share the homosexual denial of the sin system, as far as I am aware.

Since when is a preference not a choice? Semantics. If my personality prefers a certain orientation, it is up to my free will to flip-flop between them at a moment's notice. I choose to be gay; then I revert to being straight at will. Back and forth, back and forth. It's possible. Getting into homosexuality and free will is a different debate altogether...

If you wish to separate homosexuality from the biblical system of sin labeling, but leave out other candidates simply because they are not a priority or you only are concerned about one of them, then I do see an agenda. Either ignore the system altogether or defeat it, render it obsolete and make it dramatic. Because, the Christians won't accept anything less than a humiliating failure. As long as there are church gatherings with Christians blind to your future expectations of their dismantling, then the war is not won. Not with an army that fights with incompatible weapons.

If the war is already won, why are the Christians going on about as if they have no clue? Their faith is designed for scenarios such as the David vs. Goliath battles where they are flinging stones at the overpowered opponent but keep on missing, for the reason that they are out of practice. Christians will not give up until...well, never. They don't see logic, or trust it. They are very farsighted.
Debate Round No. 3


When did lust and love take on the same form? The definition of lust is "a very strong sexual desire" the definition of love is "a feeling of strong or constant affection for another." The Bible encourages us to love one another as we do ourselves, it's one of the most fundamental teachings by the Christians in the Christian community, not including the extremists. Just because you love someone doesn't mean you lust for them and once they become yours in the eyes of God, argumentatively via marriage, then lusting after them is no longer considered a sin. You seem to think that lust and love are the same things. We are all capable and all guilty of lust but the line is not draw solely at homosexuals. Heterosexuals lust plenty, all you have to do is watch any Hollywood show or movie to understand that.

Only atheists share the homosexual denial of the sin system? I clearly stated at the beginning of the argument that I was a Christian, born and raised Lutheran. I stopped attending church because I didn't agree with how many traditional churches interpreted the Bible, but that does not mean I stopped practicing.

There is no war to be fought. A person thinks homosexuality is a sin another person chooses to be a homosexual because it is what they prefer, where is this fight? A disagreement is not a fight it is not a war and it doesn't become a war until someone makes it a war. So who started the war? The Christians because they said it was wrong? Or the LGBT because they say that what the Christians say is wrong? Continuing to preach against homosexuality is not a form of war, it is a form of teaching within the Christian community. People are allowed to preach their lifestyles at free will to their friends, family, young, but ultimately it is still each individuals decision as to whether it is right or wrong. The faith is not designed for Goliath vs David battles, the faith is designed to take the individual and show them humility, respect, love, and forgiveness. What a certain groups interpretation of all other detailed matters of the faith is entirely made up of their own human minds which means that there is room for human error.

People share their faith all the time publicly, the practice is not just limited to Christians. How many times have you had a Seventh Day Adventist come to your door? Or a Muslim? Or a Jew? Or known a friend who was religious who voice an opinion that was influenced or accepted as part of their religion? How many people do you know that are anti-pork or vegetarian or vegan or think that drinking is wrong or think that partying is wrong because of a religion? Is that not the same as telling people you think the homosexuality is a sin? What one person believes and speaks should not anger another whose beliefs are different.


Apparently, after the wedding, lust becomes as legitimate as love.

Why do you subscribe to a bible with which you disagree?

It's a war because it's a moral territory dispute. Territorial disputes are the essence of warfare. Telling the Christians what to recognize as sin is as offensive to them as it is offensive that same recognition is to the homosexuals. Stalemate?

If faith is not for David vs. Goliath battles, what is the point in believing your version of an omnipotent deity?

The variety of differences between people's consciences indicate that none of us have the full picture, a perfect conscience. Yet we compete with each other anyway to see whose is the best and most refined.
Debate Round No. 4


Subscribe? Is that the word you want to use? I read the Bible...I don't "subscribe" to it, it's not something I have to renew annually, it's not something that just goes away after awhile and you have to bring it back. And I do not disagree with the Bible, I am simply saying that my interpretation of the Bible is different than that of those Christians who "..preach on the streets like the hypocrites proclaiming their faith..." which if you didn't know is an actual quote from Jesus in the Bible. Even GOD said that it wasn't right for Christians to publicly declare their faith in God and call themselves "purists" or the "righteous", tell people that they are the "leaders" in society and that everyone should follow in their footsteps because they are not. The point of believing in a deity is for comfort, not to win battles. It's to help you become a better person and put your faith in the unknown and trust that everything has a purpose and reason for it, not fight wars. Make peace. Religion itself (and this includes any kind from Christianity to Islam to Judaism) has been so misinterpreted that all people really believe is that it is used to take over the world, start a war, and set rules for which everyone to follow, IT'S NOT. It's a faith that provides a peace and understanding that there is a reason for things and that we are here to make a difference for the good of the world, not for the worse.


There would be no need for these wannabes but Jesus decided to play carpenter in heaven every time a new Christian needs real estate in heaven.

If comfort is all you seek from your God, then why bother treating him like the conqueror of evil as he should be? Apparently, he left it up to his son, who left it up to humanity. And then to whom should we leave it?

Why homosexuality and religion are incompatible? Men abusing God's tolerance for all sinners despite his rules and homosexuals challenging religious traditions. Like I said, a territory dispute. Sharing is caring. But religion doesn't care.
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by harrytruman 8 months ago
Who did you agree with before the debate? Con
Who did you agree with after the debate? Con
Who had better conduct? Pro
Who had better spelling and grammar? Con
Who made more convincing arguments? Pro
Who used the most reliable sources? Pro
I agreed with con before and after the debate because he was right.
Pro had better conduct
Their spelling and grammar was equal, but I put con because apparently I "can"t put "tie" in my RFV", so I just decided to vote con because I had to vote someone right?
Pro makes more convincing arguments, because with con, I"m not even convinced he supports the con side of this debate.
Pro is the only one who used ANY sources, one URL, but it"s better than Con"s NO URL"s.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 9 months ago
Though both Debaters here are so wrong. One stereotypes all Christians based off the flaws of others. You need to realize the recognizing failure is exactly what Christianity is about, sorry if you met someone who misinterpreted it, but Christianity is all about love and forgiveness especially during failures. No Christian is a 'Saint' I hope you people realize this, Christian aren't perfect but that's why we strive for better. As for us not listening to logic, that would be the persons fault not the religion because God has told us to use our own minds and figure it out. Question everything and find the truth. I have questioned everthing I can think of about he bible and it always comes out good. And the homosexual stance: New Testament states it twice that I've seen just recorded here I bet after searching more we could find more verses that pertain to it but Romans and Corinthians are clear on the subject. However Christians are not suppose push away homosexuals as they are sinful like we are. Don't know where you got that from. Those who follow Jesus would never want to stone anyone. Jesus stopped the stoning of the adulter but told her to sin no more. This is the Christian way, love everyone, help others not to sin. Also homosexuality isn't solo to humans, monkeys do it as a punishment as well as many other animals. Just as animals kill each other doesn't make it right. You could say that because homosexuals choose of own will to be gay then it is miraculous but people also gain pleasure from killing, aswell as lying. Homosexuality is the same, it's a sin like the rest, and it is a choice, saying you were born that way is an excuse. We all have weaknesses but to be Christian is to try and overcome. Cant be Christian and openly embrace homosexuality and say its not a sin. That is corrupting others. But you can't be Christian if you are pushing away those who sin. You see a Christian must embrace and love those who sin because we sin too but we must try not to!
Posted by Stonehe4rt 9 months ago
Couldn't agree more Jelly, it's not being a homophobic, it's a fact. Homosexuality is indeed a sin, of course it's not like we are saying it's the biggest Sin ever! No every sin is equal and we can't judge others because we are just as bad. I think the reason Christians are so loud about anti gay is because they kinda attacked Christians. First the Rainbow (God's promise to mankind.) Next Marriage and Family (The sacred union representing God, the Faith and Jesus) The man is supposed to represent Jesus, the wife is the Church, and the Child is us. A man is suppose to love his wife and his wife is suppose to respect her husband. Jesus loved the Church and the Church or the Faith respects him. And we must be guided by these. You can't have two men in a marriage because that states there is two Gods but no way to salvation, while two women states there is two Faiths and no God. I understand some Christians are judgmental but they may fear for their children's future where Homosexuality is taught to them from a young age when children shouldn't have to worry about sexual things. There are too many elementary schoolers already talking about sex and how it's cool to be homosexual, don't need our Kindergarten kids doing it now.
Posted by Jellyx 9 months ago
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 1:26-27 NIV

Just saying, my "friends" who support LGBT which I don't mind, and are atheists started to dislike me ever since I started to tell people God etc. And especially when I just said I don't agree on gay marriage, they started to call me a homophobic but I didn't tease or laugh at gay people, I respect them as everyone, but they would argue with me and especially one girl who called me someone who wasn't a human, and trash and I was only saying my opinion but she would really hate me, she never said sorry though. But I think the world has come to like gays and hate ppl who disagree from what I have experienced.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 9 months ago
Actually the New Testament Coorinthian is about sexual deviants and it uses the word sodomizers in the actual text. It is very clear cut that Homosexuality is a sin however I will leave it at that because pushing this I can see will how no effect.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 9 months ago
I should've made less rounds for this post, are arguments are about to go in a circle lol
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 9 months ago
As for the Leviticus passage, I see now what you are talking about, but it is still within the Old Testament which was deemed no longer in affect once Jesus died on the cross.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 9 months ago
That says nothing about homosexuality Sophisto, it only talks about adultery. You're making an inconclusive argument.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 9 months ago
Actually you want New Testament? Try Coorinthian 6:9-10 New Living Translation is very clear on it.
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Whether or not you accept this is your choice but you can't nitpick what you want out of the bible. It's all or nothing my friend, and homosexuality is 100% a sin.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 9 months ago
New Living Translation
Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, it is a destable sin."

Pretty clear cut, God wants the best for us and homosexuality is indeed a sin. And not good for us.
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