The Instigator
DucoNihilum
Con (against)
Winning
88 Points
The Contender
rnsweetheart
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points

Homosexuality between consenting adults should be illegal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,642 times Debate No: 3316
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (32)

 

DucoNihilum

Con

I'm curious who on this website, if anyone, actually supports this. If you do support making homosexuality illegal, I would be glad to debate you.
rnsweetheart

Pro

Homosexuality is wrong in a theocracy and thus will be the center of this debate. In a theocracy homosexuality is illegal. I win.
Debate Round No. 1
DucoNihilum

Con

I'm honestly having issues understanding what you're trying to say.

Firstly, we are not under a theocracy.

Secondly, even if we were, that is NOT justification for it to be outlawed.

What reason, logical reason, should homosexuality be outlawed?
rnsweetheart

Pro

Firstly we is not in the debate, I am the Affirmitive and I can define the country it would be illegal as a theocracy. I'm sorry, you didn't get the memo. I win.
Debate Round No. 2
DucoNihilum

Con

Just because you are pro doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. You have to follow the proposition, if you don't, you concede by default. You're pro so the burden of proof is on you, you mus prove why you believe homosexuality should be illegal.
rnsweetheart

Pro

The burden of proof is easy, I defined the government under it to be illegal is a theocracy. You say I have to have illegal as morals, no legal, means laws, what has laws a theocracy. Then fine I will give two example of why a theocracy will have homosexual behavior of any kind to be illegal.
1. And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD:
19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
19:27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
19:37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
19:38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

, this was in the land of sodomites, those who committed sodomy, so sodomy is against a christian theocracy.
2. Islam, just ask Mahmoud Adminejad what he thinks, he lives in a theocracy. Vote Aff.
Debate Round No. 3
DucoNihilum

Con

Pro believes that she can simply make the debate any way she wants it, changing the entire concept to the context of a theocracy. She does not really have the ability to do this, however, I will humor her. Even in a theocracy in which homosexuality was illegal, does that mean that it SHOULD be illegal? Not at all. Just because it is a policy of the party does not make it right.

My opponent bases her argument on several logical fallacies which discount her argument entirely.

She assumes that simply because something is policy of a theocracy at the time, it is correct for that theocracy.

She mentions the bible, which is an argument to authority

She mentions Adminejad's point of view, which is also an argument to authority.

Just because in totalitarian christian theocracies like Adminejad's homosexuality is illegal does not mean that it SHOULD be illegal.
rnsweetheart

Pro

Yes it does mean it should be illegal, I have posted scripture of the bible showing sodomy to be wrong. Laws are based on the bible in a theocracy, thou shalt not kill, etc. Sharia law as well look it up, It should be that you vote for me, because I have proven and he cannot rebut what I posted. Vote for my side.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kleptin 8 years ago
Kleptin
Pro's scope was unjustifiably narrow. I'm all for finding clever loopholes in arguments, since I find it to be more fun than beating horses that have long since died. However, this one didn't really work out since there's no justification for narrowing the scope. Why? There are no absolute clauses in the title.

Con's the winner. Though it would have been nice for him to counter with

"Except in a theocracy where homosexuality is one of the key ways to pleasing the gods. I win".
Posted by ellyphant 8 years ago
ellyphant
As tempting as it is to try to find a loophole in the topic of the debate, don't do it unless it's a really big loophole. Please, rnsweetheart, address the issue that's intended, not your own interpretation. Theocracy is entirely irrelevant to what DucoNihilum was talking about.

And I would like to know what the exact verses of the Bible were that you cited above.
Posted by nebosleeper 8 years ago
nebosleeper
rnsweetheart.....u cant be serious can u? You presented no argument whatsoever, please for the sake of debate.org stop making this a place of ignorance, but a place of logical conversation.
Posted by dmill2010 8 years ago
dmill2010
Oh yeah the bible also advocates slavery and rnsweetheart's rights as she is a woman. its true.

If we should take homosexuality literally from the bible than we should also be having slaves doing our work and only allowing women to be cooking in the kitchen. We have to see here is that you can't take the bible literally and word for word like she does here. The reason the civil rights movement happened was not because of the bible, but in spite of it.

If that doesn't change ones perspective on using the bible as an advocate nothing will.
Posted by brittwaller 8 years ago
brittwaller
This part of the story always makes me laugh, and cringe:

"19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof."

So I assume in your theocracy that rape (at least of virgins) is permissible, but consensual sex between adults is not?
Posted by Harboggles 8 years ago
Harboggles
If I wrote in a magic book that all people with debate.org screen names of rnsweetheart were retards it wouldn't make it true.

Quoting scripture to prove a point doesn't work often.
Posted by SweetBags 8 years ago
SweetBags
pro, your argument is based not on a theocracy, but upon ONE type of theocracy, specifically a Conservative christian one (although a islamic one would also apply, you only cited the new testament). there are many other types of theocracy in the worlds history, Israel for example. not to mention not all Christian sects consider homosexuality to be a crime, only the more Conservative ones (i cant list the ones that don't considerate a crime off the top of my head). I'm sorry, but you didn't debate, you argued, there's a big difference.
Posted by Shorack 8 years ago
Shorack
you can't call this a debate.
not that Con didn't try to create a serious one, Pro just screwed up any chance on having one.
Posted by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
Sweetheart, Sharia is not based on the bible. Look it up...

You cannot reference any theocracy other than Iran, and you don't even know where those laws come from. I provided a Christian Theocratic example- Vatican City- in which homosexuality is not against the law, rather is "fround" upon as a non-productive sexual act akin to masturbation. Vote for my side! (That's so childish)
Posted by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
Sweetheart- if you invoke the President of Iran's name in your defense you must learn to spell his name or risk sounding like a fool. Second, you can't appeal to Iran as "proof" that homosexuality "should" be illegal without defining how it came to be illegal in Iran, why is it illegal, and why it should be illegal in the country you live in. You can't just say "oh, because so and so says so"... that's laymen's terms for Duco's statement: "argument (appeal) to authority".
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