The Instigator
TheChristian
Pro (for)
Winning
28 Points
The Contender
stephannoi
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Homosexuality has Little to No Correlation to Pedophillia

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
TheChristian
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 7/9/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 550 times Debate No: 93524
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (4)

 

TheChristian

Pro

Hello, all.

I will be debating with stephannoi, an individual who believes that homosexuality and pedophilia are linked, possibly genetically. If this debate goes well, I may consider another debate with him, and I look forward to a lively debate.

This debate is open voting, select winner. BoP is on me.

R1- Acceptance/reason for acceptance, if desired
R2- Arguments. To clairify, nothing can be refuted in this round.
R3- Refutations. No arguments, just refutations.
R4- Conclusions. No new arguments.

Definitions-
Homosexuality- being attracted to one's own sex
Pedophilia- sexual desire in an adult for a child

http://www.dictionary.com...
http://www.dictionary.com...

My reason for making this debate is fairly obvious, I am gay, and am adamantly opposed to pedophilia and am personally insulted by the accusation of homosexuals being tied to pedophilia.

Clarifications

This is not a debate on if homosexuality is good or bad, natural or unnatural, a mental disorder or not a mental disorder. I ask that any attempts to make it a debate on any one of these be ignored.

Good luck to my opponent, and I look forward to a good, lively, complete debate.
stephannoi

Con

Well for some people might argue that homosexual and pedophile has nothing in Common but in my opinion there is a strong Association between two since both are unnatural and sick.
According to recently study Archive Sexual behaviour publish by a sexologist Blanchard
Point to the fact that 80% of homo/bi sexual men are pedophile.
Anyway pedophile and homosexual are among the most Society hatred people.
In Saudi arabia for example they could be executed or beheaded.
Debate Round No. 1
TheChristian

Pro

Welcome to the debate, and I remind you, the rules explicitly say that arguing homosexuality is bad/unnatural is 100% banned.

Well, I found a report that says that 80% of pedophiles are gay/bisexual, but this has nothing to say that 80% of homosexuals or bisexuals are pedophiles. Anyway, my source debunks it and contains an excerpt from what I believe you got your source from.

You argued that pedophilia is a sexual orientation in one of your debates.

http://www.debate.org...

So, can you have two sexual orientations? The logical answer is no.

From my source (http://www.dailykos.com...)
"Fischer cites a study that says 86% of men who molest boys identify themselves as gay or bisexual with no breakdown of gay or bisexual perpetrators. The study Fischer references is strongly criticized by the consensus of experts in this field. The paper he's referencing is Erickson et al. (1988). Behavior patterns of child molesters. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 17, 77-86. The paper does claim in passing that 86% of molesters of boys identified as gay or bisexual, but the paper does not describe how this data was gathered, and how it ascertained the sexual orientation of these men."

So, there is no way to determine HOW this data was obtained, and it is both phrased incorrectly, and there is no way to determine the validity of an argument that has no source backing it up.

And, many pedophiles assault boys. Does that make them gay? No more than it makes a homosexual who has a heterosexual life heterosexual. Same source.

"Pedophiles are attracted, primarily, to children. The sex of those children matter less than that they are children. The sex of victim has more to do with access than sexual orientation."

In the book Mental Disorders of the New Millennium (2006), author and psychology professor Thomas Plante writes:

"Although the majority of clergy abuse victims are males, homosexuality cannot be blamed. First, many of the pedophile priests report that they are not homosexual. This is also true of many non-clergy sex offenders who victimize boys. Many report that they target boys for a variety of reasons that include easier access to boys ... pregnancy fears with female victims ... homosexuals in general have not been found to be more likely to commit sexual crimes against minors compared to heterosexuals. Sexual orientation is not predictive of sex crimes "

And, then there's this

Typologies of offenders have often included a distinction between those with an enduring primary preference for children as sexual partners and those who have established age-appropriate relationships but become sexually involved with children under unusual circumstances of extreme stress. Perpetrators in the first category " those with a more or less exclusive interest in children " have been labeled fixated. Fixation means "a temporary or permanent arrestment of psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of development" (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978, p. 176). Many clinicians view fixated offenders as being "stuck" at an early stage of psychological development.

By contrast, other molesters are described as regressed. Regression is "a temporary or permanent appearance of primitive behavior after more mature forms of expression had been attained, regardless of whether the immature behavior was actually manifested earlier in the individual's development" (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978, p. 177). Regressed offenders have developed an adult sexual orientation but under certain conditions (such as extreme stress) they return to an earlier, less mature psychological state and engage in sexual contact with children.

Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..."

And they tried YET AGAIN. And they failed.

"In yet another approach to studying adult sexual attraction to children, some Canadian researchers observed how homosexual and heterosexual adult men responded to slides of males and females of various ages (child, pubescent, and mature adult). All of the research subjects were first screened to ensure that they preferred physically mature sexual partners.

The researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children (Freund et al., 1989)."

Same source. Therefore, all scientific evidence states that homosexuals have no predisposition to pedophilia, and your own debate says pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

So, at the risk of violating my own rules, my opponent cites an incorrect statistic, rephrased from a paper from 1921, that has no credibility and no sources backing it up.

I now pass the buck to Con
stephannoi

Con

Well homosexual is a mental illness and sexual deviation similar to pedophilia. Alongside the DSM-I (first edition) has classified them as a one type of paraphilia it has not been declassified until 1970s where homosexual group lobbying to accept their sexuality.Since the time of lawrence v.texas decision ,struck down sodomy law in 14 states in 2003,child sexual abuse has been more prevalent and rising.I am personally against LGBT social movement because legalizing homosexuality would lead to acceptance of pedophilia too.
Debate Round No. 2
TheChristian

Pro

DSM-I first edition has been outdated for over 60 years. And, a defective document with no credible research created by biased doctors was the cause of the conclusion. And, I remember you saying in another debate, (http://www.debate.org...) that pedophilia is no longer considered a mental illness. You can't have it both ways. In fact, nervousness was seen as a disorder in those days. modern psychology has found multiple errors in DSM-I. This was before the pseudopatient experiments, which found many issues determining mental disorders and mentally ill from mentally stable, which took place under DSM-II.

http://www.psychologyinaction.org...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
https://en.wikipedia.org...

So, you want to have pedophilia declassified as a disorder and classified a sexuality, but homosexuality, declassified as a disorder almost 40 years prior, is not a sexuality, but a disease?

And, you expect criminals to obey laws preventing them from sexually abusing someone because of laws? Correlation does not equal connection. If ice cream sales go up, and pizza sales go up, are they linked?
stephannoi

Con

Anyway homosexual and pedophile are among hatred group by most people.Saudi arabia,and iran permit public execution for homosexual and pedophile.

Marriage and cohabiting suppose to be consist between adult male and adult female.Same-sex sexual intercourse is unnatural because your anus is not design for having sex,this could increase the change of sexual transmitted disease.Pedophile is unnatural as well because children are not physical mature for child bearing.Pregnancy complication death among adolescent girls are much more greater risk than older woman,

According to one study by kolarsky and colleague 54 examined the relationship between 'sexual deviation' age of lesion onset and localisation of lesion.It has been shown that homosexual has been link to frontal lobe injury which would be one reason why to be classified homosexual as a mental disorder and sexual deviation.It is also included pedophile as well.http://www.conservapedia.com...
Debate Round No. 3
TheChristian

Pro

Okay, so I realized that there are 5 rounds, instead of 4. Since resetting this is not an option, I have decided that we will keep the outline that was established, and we will both waive the final round, as this is the only fair solution. If my opponent does not waive the final round, I ask that you ignore his argument in the final round.

Firstly, let's dissect his rebuttal.

"Anyway homosexual and pedophile are among hatred group by most people.Saudi arabia,and iran permit public execution for homosexual and pedophile." (sic)

This is irrelevant, as it does not show a reliable link between pedophilia and homosexuality, just that they are hated in certain countries.

" Marriage and cohabiting suppose to be consist between adult male and adult female.Same-sex sexual intercourse is unnatural because your anus is not design for having sex,this could increase the change of sexual transmitted disease.Pedophile is unnatural as well because children are not physical mature for child bearing.Pregnancy complication death among adolescent girls are much more greater risk than older woman" (sic)

Opinion. Irrelevant to the resolution.

" According to one study by kolarsky and colleague 54 examined the relationship between 'sexual deviation' age of lesion onset and localisation of lesion.It has been shown that homosexual has been link to frontal lobe injury which would be one reason why to be classified homosexual as a mental disorder and sexual deviation.It is also included pedophile as well" (Sic)

Okay, use Spell Check!

Second, this is the third consecutive round he has committed an attack on homosexuals and broke the rules of the debate. Thus, this is rendered null and void by the rules regarding such insults. He attempts to connect separate things with a not so subtle forgery and connects pedophilia to homosexuality via "brain injury" which was banned in the first round.

My argument stands, I have proved that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, which was not my intent using that source, but was necessary, as well as prove that pedophilia is not connected to homosexuality. My opponent twisted an already incorrect statistic by claiming that 80% of all homosexuals are pedophiles, when his statistic was the other way around, debunked in R2.

My arguments stand, and are almost uncontested. Rules were violated in every round, and was insulted in the comments, my opponent resorted to ad hominim and straw mans, and poorly constructed ones at that.

For all these reasons, vote Pro.

Once again, my opponent and I MUST waive the last round. Any arguments made in that round are to be ignored in the interest of fairness.
stephannoi

Con

Well the truth fact that you have to accepted that homosexual/bi sexual molested children at far greater than heterosexual in their lifetime.According to national committee to prevent sexual abuse report :
1.Male account for 25 and 35 percent of child sex abuse victims.
2.The Gay report publish by homosexual researches Jay and Young in 1973 revealed that 73 percent of homosexual surveyed had sex with boys age 16 to 19 or even younger.
3.National Association for research and therapy for homosexual states :,,since homosexual pedophile victimize far more children than heterosexual it estimate that 80 percent of pedophile victims are boys
4.Dr Paul Cameroon found following :
153 pederast sexually molested 22,981 boys over an average period of 22 years in comparison
224 pedophile molested an average of 150 boys and each heterosexual pedophile molested an average 20 girls a ratio of 7.5 to one.
Debate Round No. 4
TheChristian

Pro

My opponent again violates rules. NOTE- My opponent MUST waive this round.Refusal to do so means that his argument is to be ignored.

Waive
stephannoi

Con

Well there are several known Propaganda from LGBT activitist that they promote sex with children for such as following below
According to Baldwin Report :
1.Journal of Homosexuality entitled :
Male integenerational intimacy Contain many articles portraying Sex between boys and men as loving relationship.Parent should look upon pedophile as someone who love their son not as a competitor or rival or a thieve.
2.National Lesbian Gay task force support abolish age of consent argue that children are sexual being since from birth .
3.Peter tatchell,a gay activist and human right campaigner argue :
It might be impossible to condone pedophile but it time Society have to acknowledge that adult-child Sex is not always abusive,harmful and unwanted.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: migmag// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Pro. Reasons for voting decision: There is NO comparison between the CRIME of pedophilia to the NATURAL sexual orientation of homosexuality

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD. The voter's view of the subject matter up for debate is not a substitute.
************************************************************************
Posted by TheChristian 10 months ago
TheChristian
And where's your evidence? And there is no evidence that homosexual priests do not abuse more than heterosexuals?

My source is "Conspiracies and Secret Societies: The Complete Dossier, by Brad and Sherri Steigler, page 394-396, article "Roman Catholic Church's Sexual Conspiracy of Silence" with such sources as Newsweek, New York Times, "The Changing Face of the Priesthood" by Donald B Cozzens, and Washington Times.

Also, next time you make an allegation, try to make it in the debate, backed by reliable sources, provide links, and give me something I have to go further than my bookshelves to find.
Posted by stephannoi 10 months ago
stephannoi
Well there are many incidents of gay roman catholic priest who abuse both girls and boys.
Posted by Phenenas 10 months ago
Phenenas
There is indeed a correlation between pedophilia and homosexuality, but people draw false conclusions from that fact. They assume that gay men have a tendency to lust for little boys, when in reality they are no more likely to do that than straight men are to lust for small girls. In reality, it's pedophiles that have a tendency to molest children of both genders. They're so depraved that they would treat a CHILD as a sexual being - it doesn't matter to them if the child is male or female.
Posted by stephannoi 10 months ago
stephannoi
There are also several report attempt that homosexual organization want to abolish age of consent,to liberalize sex with children.
Posted by stephannoi 10 months ago
stephannoi
the bibel interpretation say that you should not have anal sex it's an abominable sin.
Posted by Samcoder1 10 months ago
Samcoder1
The only correlation I could see is this: If homosexuality has a route in genetics, then why wouldn't pedophilia? If we are to say that sexuality is genetic rather than socially constructed, then surely pedophilia would be there too. The difference would be that one leads to harm, and the other doesn't.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by DeuceKaboose 10 months ago
DeuceKaboose
TheChristianstephannoi
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Pro used proper sources, cited them adequately and actually followed the rules
Vote Placed by MissLuLu 10 months ago
MissLuLu
TheChristianstephannoi
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Con did not follow rules, and used outdated and incorrect sources.
Vote Placed by Foodiesoul 10 months ago
Foodiesoul
TheChristianstephannoi
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Con breaks lots of rules, just like Pro stated. Con does not even bother to use proper grammar and punctuation, which makes Con's arguments very hard to understand. Pro strictly stated that no new arguments can be used in round 4 but Con still used new arguments in Round 4. Pro had more intelligent arguments than Con because unlike Con, Pro used proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation, and also used enough evidence to refute Con's arguments.
Vote Placed by Phenenas 10 months ago
Phenenas
TheChristianstephannoi
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gives a good, well-worded argument backed by numerous studies that debunk the supposed connection towards same-sex love and lust toward children. Con spends half the debate stressing how bad homosexuality is, which is off-topic and therefore misconduct. They blatantly break Pro's rule against debating the morality and mental stability of gay people, use almost exclusively faulty sources, and gave an argument in the final round when Pro made it clear that they would both waive it. Overall, Con showed very little respect for their opponent, had subpar spelling and grammar, and gave poor arguments. There is no contest: Pro is the winner.