The Instigator
ScottyDouglas
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
class_freak
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Homosexuality has no virtue.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
ScottyDouglas
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/28/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,726 times Debate No: 23837
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (4)

 

ScottyDouglas

Pro

The argument is: Homosexuality has no virtue.
I am FOR this argument.
Rules:
1. Debate must stay on topic.
2. All links and information for references must be provided.
3. Pro/For must provide the arguement.
4. All material must be in a respectful manner.

I agree to these terms if my opponent does then GL to them.
class_freak

Con

Challenge Accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
ScottyDouglas

Pro

I want to thank my opponent for his acceptance in this debate, GL and TY!

I must provide reasons why homosexuality has no virtue. My opponent must try give homosexuality has virtue and dispose of my reasons.

* Note: It is not a question that someone who is homosexual has no virtue. I think all have some virtue and lack virtue. The question is does homosexuality itself have virtue?

Lets take a look at what it takes to have virtue:

http://dictionary.reference.com...

The common definition of virtue is, Moral excellence; goodness; righteousness. Conformity of one's life and conduct to moral and ethical principles. Chastity; virginity. A particular moral excellence. With good admirable quality.

1. To have virtue you have selfless service to humanity. Protection to humankind and the earth. Respect for the natural way of the universe. No one can deny that the natural order of the universe is man and woman - male and female. If not then many species would die off or drastically decrease in number. This is in opposition of natural.

2. You must have restraint and moderation in all things. Homosexuality has no restraint in that they must go to unatural means to have a physical relationship. This product of natural means shows the inability to stop thier physical perverseness.

3. Biology does not support homosexuality. There no natural biological reason for homosexuality. It provides no advancement for the greater good of mankind.

4. You are required to be honest with not only yourself but with all humanity. Though many are and were in fear of persecution, and understandable. No one deserves to be persectued in todays society regardless their preference. But that fear still does not justify those in the closet or dishonest behavior. This also does not apply all homosexuals or non-homosexuals are liars or not liars.

5. You must not only have outer cleanliness but also inner cleanliness. Although homosexuality is sometimes presented as healthy and sometimes superior, the truth is it represents a serious threat to the individual and public. Homosexuality is associated with dangerous behaviors and increased rates of disease.

http://www.ncfpc.org...

6. Showing tolerance for everyone. You must always conduct yourself in a peaceful manner. Having proper conduct in society. To behave and appear as a respectful member of society. All people must abide this rule.

7. Having reference to elders and traditions. Most certainly homosexuality does not show reference to traditions nor does science. Admitted that times and laws must procede. This is not a subject that directly refers to just homosexuals.

7. A sense of importance. Courage and valor. Many on any side portrays courage and importance.

8. Forgiveness and clemency. Even homosexuals or any creed or gender deserves this.

I will wait and see how my opponent chooses to include homosexuality in this definition of virtue. But there are also other traits that can be considered to have virtue.

*We should note that historically cultures were there where same-sex relationships was not universally frowned upon,' For example, acient Athens.' Same sex marriages never have became accepted practice though.

9. It is emperical that same-sex marriages would damage the institution of marriage which is a bond between man and woman. The handbook 'Notes and Queries'(1951) defined marriage as "union between a man and a woman such that children born would legitimate recognized offspring of both partners."

10. I suggest that homosexuality is instead a vice, the opposite of virtue. That homosexuality is a mental illness for most pertisapents. On another hand it is also a rebellious spirit against the natural order of things. Many can also be confused about thier gender. So by either the personnel choice, mental disorder, or confusion leads to homosexual activity and relationships.

Gender identity disorder: Is a condition in which a person has strong and persistent cross-gender identification. These feelings are of sufficient intensity to cause social impairment and distress. They also experience feelings that he or she is, or should be, the other sex.

http://emedicine.medscape.com...

However evidence and professional norms do not support that homosexuality is a form of mental illness. Though it should not be presumed that a sexual minority are free from mental disorders and distress. The stresses that the sexual prejustice provokes would cause distress and enhance disorders.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu...

Rebellious against the norm. Refusing to allegiance to and oppose by force an establishment. This is not just a characteristic for the homosexual community but it lerks within.

11. Homosexuals are on a decline because of non-reproduction. We are in a tolerance society that will bring younger and younger people feeling stronger about their feelings. The shame and obligation for society to replenish will lessen and lessen. Direct results of sexual diversity in societies will bring more sexual idenity confusion. In this increasing acceptance of homosexuality will decrease the amount of homosexual genes within gay married couples. Leaving them to adopt. By this less and less reproduction of homosexuals effectively puts a stop to thier transmission of genes.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...

12

. Common Law- Sir William Blackstone, whose authored extensive Commentaries on the laws of England from 1765-1769 became the preeminent legal authority that were admired and used by America's Founding Fathers stated:

"

IV. WHAT has been here observed..., which ought to be the more clear in proportion as the crime is the more detestable, may be applied to another offence, of a still deeper malignity; the infamous crime against nature, committed either with man or beast.... But it is an offence of so dark a nature...that the accusation should be clearly made out....

I WILL not act so disagreeable part, to my readers as well as myself, as to dwell any longer upon a subject, the very mention of which is a disgrace to human nature. It will be more eligible to imitate in this respect the delicacy of our English law, which treats it, in it’s very indictments, as a crime not fit to be named...This the voice of nature and of reason, and the express law of God, determine to be capital. Of which we have a signal instance, long before the Jewish dispensation, by the destruction of two cities by fire from heaven: so that this is an universal, not merely a provincial, precept.

[10]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-10"[11] "


I want to thank my opponent again and GL!

http://www.conservapedia.com...

http://briarcliff.academia.edu...

http://plato.stanford.edu...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

class_freak

Con

TWO THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT FIND ANNOYING IN THIS ROUND:
A. My Bad English and B. My Informal Way of Debating.

Ok this round for me would only focus on opposing my opponent’s claims. These rebuttals that I shall present for this round can also so serve as my arguments.

Begin Round 2.
I agree that the universe has a natural order on things and that we should all respect. But I firmly disagree to the opponent’s claim that the natural order is only between man and woman. No, it is not. Before I further substantiate my argument, I shall first give the true definition of the natural order.

“In philosophy, the natural order is the moral source from which natural law seeks to derive its authority. It encompasses the natural relations of beings to one another, in the absence of law, which natural law attempts to reinforce.” http://en.wikipedia.org...

“Natural law, or the law of nature, is a system of law which is purportedly determined by nature, and thus universal” http://en.wikipedia.org...

So in simple terms, natural order is the way how nature works, it is how we interact with one another. And did you know that over 1,500 species in the animal kingdom has been practicing homosexual behavior and obviously, humans also practice it. (http://en.wikipedia.org...) If species throughout the animal kingdom have been practicing homosexual acts from the past few years then it is safe to say that homosexuality is/has been a part of the natural order. Homosexuality never opposes the natural order because it is part of it. Those who say that homosexuality is unnatural are the ones who truly oppose the natural order. And also God is not nature, so please don’t say that homosexuality is not normal because God didn’t create it or intended it.

I would also like to discuss the remarks and comments made by my opponent to the gays. Like in #2, he said that gays have no restraint to their sexual impulses or to their perverseness. A person’s sexual activeness doesn’t depend on their sexual orientation but it depends on the person itself. If someone grew up on an environment where sexual activity is rampant then that person maybe more sexually active but if a person grew up smartly then he will definitely have less sexual impulses.

#3. Like what I’ve said, homosexuality is a part of the natural order. 1,500 species practice it, so biology has to support this. We can’t just dictate what a certain animal should normally do; it’s in the animals’ nature to be gay.

Also in #4, honesty and dishonesty are not influence by a person’s sexuality. Like what I’ve said earlier, character traits like these are heavily more influence by the person itself not the person’s gender. But if you’re trying to imply that gays tend to lie more because it is common for them to lie about their sexuality for fear that society might judge them, then we should not blame the gays for their actions rather we should blame society for being rude and judgmental.

Now we move on to the stereotypical claim that gays carry dangerous diseases like HIV and AIDS. Yes, gays may have a share in the high rate of HIV/AIDS infections but let me tell you something, they are not the only one who have this kind of diseases. Look at those slutty prostitutes in the streets who literally sell their body for money or the pervert men who would spend their money just to have sex with a stranger. Didn’t it ever occur to you that straight people may have contributed to the high rate of HIV infections? And also, gays/straight people who carry HIV/AIDS are not serious threats to the individual and the public, people who have these diseases are only serious threats to dumb people.

#6. Ok first of all gay men are more well-mannered than straight men. They are more sophisticated because homosexual men tend to act in a classy behavior. They are also more self-conscious, they worry more when it comes to their image and look, and gays know everything about fashion trends while straight men don’t even care about the clothes that they wear. Well-dressed homosexual men outnumber straight men. Also, people have this wrong perception that all gays want to be a girl. No, not all gays want to dress up as a woman and be a drag queen. There’s a huge difference between being gay and being transgendered.

#7. Gays do have some reference to traditions and science. Gays are also human beings; they did not come from another planet. The only thing that makes the homosexuals different from other kinds of people is their culture. They have their own way of living their life. It is for a fact that the world has its own subcultures. Black people have their own kind of culture, Asians also have their own culture but whether you came from a culture of African-American people, Asian people or may even from the gays, all of us are still the same because we’re human. And why make such claim that gays don’t have reference to the elders?
Gays are brave. Why? Because it takes a great deal of bravery and courage to admit in a harsh society that you’re gay.

#8. Despite of your sexual preference, all of us have forgiveness and clemency. It is up to us whether we wish to be forgiving or not.

#9. Now we move on to marriage. First of all, same-sex marriage will definitely not destroy the institution of marriage because the true foundation of a true marriage is love. When you say that marriage is only between man and woman, well you’re wrong, that is not based on the institution of marriage, that my friend is rather based on the institution of the church. The true idea of marriage is to unite two people in a bond that will lasts until death but the idea of marriage by the church is that only man and woman should have the privilege to marry each other due to the fact that only a man and a woman has the capability to produce an offspring .

#10. Homosexuality has no cause if it does then being straight also has to have some sort of cause. And also, homosexuality is not a vice, because you’re practically saying that all gays in the world are bad even though you haven’t met one of them.

A mental illness is something that disrupts a person's ability to reason and perform everyday activities. Homosexuality does neither of these. There are plenty of intelligent, successful homosexuals that contribute to society. They can still drive their cars, go to work, and do everything else a heterosexual person can do. They can even have sex with the opposite gender, they just don't prefer that. Homosexuality is far from a mental illness. This should really be a morality issue, not a mental health issue.
http://conservapedia.com...

It is so ironic to say that homosexuality is rebellious against the norm. Gays are the ones who want to be a part of the norm while some people are just being selfish and unwelcoming. I mean, you are the one who is trying to eliminate all the gays in the world and refusing to form an allegiance with the gays. Right?

#11. Ok first of all, homosexuality is not transmitted through genes. Second, there is no guarantee that a heterosexual couple will have a straight child and a homosexual couple will have a gay child. Homosexuality is not found in genes. Also, I don’t think gays will be disappearing soon.
http://www.avert.org...

#12. Homosexuality is not a crime of nature and absolutely not a disgrace to mankind. I mean, what did they do to be called like this?
End Round 2.

I repeat, my rebuttals for this round will also be my arguments.
I would also like to rebut the person’s claims found in the comment section but unfortunately there’s no time left so I’ll be doing that in the 3rd round.
Debate Round No. 2
ScottyDouglas

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for this debate.

Thank you for your wise comments.

My opponent come right out and claims that homosexuals have more manners and style than striaght people(men specifically.) This is a outrageous claim that He can not verify but by oersonnel assumption. He further is claim that homosexuals know everything about trends and fashion. We are left to think all homosexuals are well-mannered and oozing with style. Obviously straight people have no class or style.

"The universe has a natural order on things and we should all respect."

Me and my opponent agree here.
But He then declares that it is natural to be homosexual.
He continues with these comments :
"In philosophy, the natural order is the moral source from which natural law seeks to derive its authority. It encompasses the natural relations of beings to one another, in the absence of law, which natural law attempts to reinforce."

"Natural law, or the law of nature, is a system of law which is purportedly determined by nature, and thus universal"

Simply put, the male body is sexually made for the female body. Sperm are by their design oriented toward the egg. Same-sex intercourse cannot fulfill the purpose written into our physical form.

Today natural law theory offers the most common intellectual defense for differential treatment of gays and lesbians, and such as such it merits attention.
We see many philosophers talked about homosexuality:
In Book One, Plato, writes about how opposite-sex sex acts cause pleasure by nature, while same-sex sexuality is "unnatural" (636c).

Aristotle, with his emphasis upon reason as the distinctive human function, and the Stoics, with their emphasis upon human beings as a part of the natural order of the cosmos, both helped to shape the natural law perspective which says that "True law is right reason in agreement with nature," as Cicero put it. http://plato.stanford.edu...

My opponent claims that:
"And did you know that over 1,500 species in the animal kingdom has been practicing homosexual behavior and obviously, humans also practice it. If species throughout the animal kingdom have been practicing homosexual acts from the past few years then it is safe to say that homosexuality is/has been a part of the natural order."

If this was natural explain Examples Such as:
"If we looked at an eyeball and did not know what it was for but could learn everything about its biology, we could pretty well figure it out. It is nearly spherical and moves around in its socket. It has a clear opening which seems to grow and shrink in response to light. It has a light sensitive inner lining connected to nerves which go to the brain, etc. etc. This thing clearly has something to do with receiving light and it seems aimable–it has something to do with gathering light, and converting it into signals, perhaps it is for vision or something closely related. The structure of the eye tells us what it is for. The eye is not the proper tool for catching a baseball, which I have learned personally. That is the hand whose structure is apparently designed for grasping things. The obvious point here is that physical structure indicates its purpose."
http://theblackcordelias.wordpress.com...

I think it is clear the the natural order is male and female. My opponent shows no declaration to hold weight to make homosexuality have any virtue. He says:
"I would also like to discuss the remarks and comments made by my opponent to the gays. Like in #2, he said that gays have no restraint to their sexual impulses or to their perverseness."

Lets really see what perverse is:
Perversion is a concept describing those types of human behavior that are excessive or deviated from what is considered to be orthodox or normal. Although it can refer to varying forms of deviation, it is most often used to describe sexual behaviors that are seen by an individual as abnormal, repulsive or obsessive.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

We see here the definition of perverseness is such acts as homosexuality. My opponent takes it further into marriage and says:
"When you say that marriage is only between man and woman, well you're wrong, that is not based on the institution of marriage, that my friend is rather based on the institution of the church."

I rebuttal with:
The word "marriage" has always been defined as a husband-wife relationship; so-called "homosexual" unions have never been included in this definition. Regardless of what laws (or lack of laws) relate to this, the word "marriage" should be reserved for the formal union of a man and a woman: traditional marriage. The formal union of husband and wife is central to the creation and preservation of human life and the backbone of human societies around the world. http://www.objectiveness.com...

My opponent would like to add gay marriage into the common term for marriage but it does not belong there.
The formal relationship of a man and a woman in marriage is most important to society. No other institution deserves more support. When a marriage is successful and children are reared in such a home, the benefits to society are greater than all the programs any government can create. No social program can compete with it.

"It is so ironic to say that homosexuality is rebellious against the norm. Gays are the ones who want to be a part of the norm while some people are just being selfish and unwelcoming."

Though the facts are homosexuality are against the norm. They have fought hard to rebel against laws and previous dogma. To call those that established laws and rules for thousands of years selfish, is to mock thier establishment of law and morality throughout the land.

I also think that my opponent has failed to show homosexuality(the act) has any virtue.

Round 4 i will be showing how homosexuality is a vice of nature and society.

Thanks to my opponent again.
class_freak

Con

class_freak forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
ScottyDouglas

Pro

Thanks for this debate.
My opponent chose not to respond last round. I seriuosly question his stance on the whole subject.

I do not think I need to post because my previous rebuttals and claims have yet to be reconized.

I hope that my opponent will provide us with a rebuttal in rd 4.

I look forward to it.
class_freak

Con

class_freak forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
ScottyDouglas

Pro

I Thank each and every person that has read thia. I also thank my oppoent for allowing to discuss this a little(wish we coulda gone further.)

I pull my arguement and points from the previous rounds to end.

1. Homosexuality (the act)has not virtue whatsoever.
2. Homosexuality does not improve society (as a act.)
3. Homosexuality is biologically wrong.
4. Homosexulity is morally selfish.

I thank you!

VOTE PRO~
class_freak

Con

class_freak forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Matthew3.14 4 years ago
Matthew3.14
I agree.
Posted by ScottyDouglas 4 years ago
ScottyDouglas
No it is a different set of beliefs and moral acts. Homosexuality has no virtue. And I will debate you about it too=]
Posted by twocupcakes 4 years ago
twocupcakes
Being gay is just a different taste. For example I don't like eating liver. However, if someone did like eating it, I would not hold it against them. Its just a different taste.
Posted by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
"Some people will say, "But I was born this way. Since I was a child I was attracted to members of the same sex." To that I will say no, you were born a sinner and that at a young age your sin started to manifest itself." Holy crap that is actually one of the most backwards and shortsightedly ignorant things I have ever heard. Especially when you immediately follow up by saying that you actually stole (Breaking both American and Christian law), but I'm still a good person even though all homosexuals are going to hell. (if you want a citation: http://www.apa.org...)

Furthermore, I'm going to restate what I use when I'm orally debating this topic with other Christian fanatics. "If Homosexuality really is a choice, like all sins, then do this" *I point to random actractive person in the crowd or in the general area where we're standing* "Become sexually attracted to that man/woman. After all, Leviticus states that you're only commiting a sin when you sleep with him/her[I normally insert a name if I know them, but normally I don't know them], so you won't be going to Hell for choosing to feel homosexual for a few seconds." When they know they cannot make themselves feel homosexual, the debate normally ends there, and they become just a bit less discriminatory in the long run, which is what I was aiming for.

Hopefully this doesn't give the con any tips, and it shouldn't because the round is over the virtue they hold, not the metaphysics around homosexuality.
Posted by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
Pink, don't argue the round for anybody even though you're not in the debate, that is just extremely rude. And Gileandos, well we just have to see how well he negates it ;). Furthermore, not only is there no scholastic or cultural consensus as gay rights is a highly disputed issue, there isn't even a religious consensus as I know several pastors and a couple of guys who are studying to become preachers who say that Homosexuals are just like Christians, they're just not going to Heaven unless they repent for their homosexuality.
Posted by Gileandos 4 years ago
Gileandos
@Class Freak,
I am stunned you would take this. You cannot possibly win this as the culture holds it as no virtue and any attempt would go against scholastic cultural consensus.
Posted by Gileandos 4 years ago
Gileandos
@Pink,
Is Homosexuality a sin for an unbeliever?
Posted by Pink1234 4 years ago
Pink1234
(5) CAN SOMEONE PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY AND STILL LOVE CHRIST?

Jesus said in John 14:15, 23-24, "If ye love me, keep my commandments. If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings."

So I would say that if you truly love Christ, you would want to do what pleases him. And as we have already read, homosexuality does not please the Lord.

And 1 John 2:4 reads, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." And 1 John 1:5-6 reads, "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth."
Posted by Pink1234 4 years ago
Pink1234
(4) DO GENETICS CAUSE HOMOSEXUALITY?

Some people will say, "But I was born this way. Since I was a child I was attracted to members of the same sex." To that I will say no, you were born a sinner and that at a young age your sin started to manifest itself. When I was perhaps six, I can distinctly remember going to a store and stealing from the store. I shoplifted for many years after that as well. Does that mean that I was genetically just a born thief or that my behavior should be accepted because I had had those feelings since my childhood? Of course not. Stealing was a sin I committed. It was not who I was.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Matthew3.14 4 years ago
Matthew3.14
ScottyDouglasclass_freakTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by K.GKevinGeary 4 years ago
K.GKevinGeary
ScottyDouglasclass_freakTied
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Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 4 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
ScottyDouglasclass_freakTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Four - Phitt
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 4 years ago
ConservativePolitico
ScottyDouglasclass_freakTied
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