The Instigator
alevan
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
Cowboy0108
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points

Homosexuality is a choice

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
alevan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/28/2013 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,147 times Debate No: 37110
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

alevan

Con

I am an advocate for gay rights only because I believe, through following scientific evidence, and my morals which I was taught from at home, at my catholic school, and from people I have talked to that homosexuality is without a doubt not a choice.

TOPIC OF DISCUSSION
We are not debating whether or not Gay's should be allowed rights or whether or not its their rights to begin with but rather we are debating the concept homosexuality being a choice. In hopes we can wrap up this debate fairly quick I have made it allow only 48 hours of time before our arguments will be do as opposed to the default 72 hours.

Please do not incorporate religion into the debate as we are not debating that. However, if you feel your point can only be made from a religous outlook or you feel its appropriate then I encourage you to use it.

As we get into the second round please try to use sources and reliable sources.(No bias fox or MSNBC reports) lets try to stay strictly with facts and studies that have been done to help prove one point or the other.

As I have set it to only four rounds of debate I will not waste any time and begin with my first round debate.

HOMOSEXUALITY A CHOICE?

It was often believed that for anyone who expressed the unusual way of love, homosexuality, that they chose to do so. However our great country which was founded to be simple has grown and changed and was never for one second a simple place. As our understanding of things change and as more and more people are becoming comfortable with their sexual orientation and advocating for rights we are left to wonder why they would choose this life.(this is of course in context as someone who believes homosexuality is a choice)

It seems like an odd thing. However I invite you to ponder upon this question; "When did you choose your sexual orientation whether it be gay, straight, bi, or if you have no desire at all?"
An odd question to think about but it brings up my next question perhaps even a little harder to answer, why did you choose this as your orientation. If your like most people and can't remember why you choose your orientation or when you did then maybe from just that question you can begin to understand or you can then fully understand.

However this may not suffice, and for all intents and purposes lets continue and examine the science of it all.

THE GAY GENE

Many supporters of gay marriage often mention a gene which can be found in unborn babies, toddlers, children, and adults who are homosexual.

Most researchers have found there is no such thing as a gay gene but rather what causes people to be gay is brainwaves that may come from genetics inherited my a mother.(In a homosexual male and vise-versa in a homosexual female)
http://www.pbs.org...

This is going to be the closing of my first argument, I look forward to a lively debate and your objections to my statements.
Cowboy0108

Pro

I am going to keep my first round short.
Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, as it is an abomination.
In the Bible, it clearly states that God creates all people. It clearly states that homosexual acts are an "abomination". Why would God create a person to be an abomination? Why would God make someone a sinner. God making a person gay is like a parent wanting their child to grow up to be a rapist or a murderer. Homosexual acts are a sin in the Bible, and sins are choices. Therefore, homosexuality is a choice.
I will wait on your response.
Debate Round No. 1
alevan

Con

Thank you con for your reply. Your reply makes sense but let me answer your question with another question do you think God would perhaps create someone to be homosexual in hopes they would eventually grow out of it, or as a test to their faith? I believe that this point

This is an ultimate question and you can not answer it but you could go further into it if you wish. If you think God wouldn't do that then why would he have children be born into atheist family? Or a family of another religion? This will be my only reply to you as you only posed one question and brought up one point.

Also I would appreciate if you directly replied to my arguments instead of avoiding them and just leaving them their because by that motion I am left to assume that's you agree with them.

Also being gay is nothing like being a rapist or a murderer, and being a rapist or a killer is a choice completely while I believe, along with a growing majority of people (Thanks to modern science) that homosexuality is a choice. In fact the evidence for it not being a choice is so overwhelming the Catholic Pope is even a supporter for gay rights!

Also it may help you to know that over 1,500 species have some members who display homosexual tendencies other than humans. Are you going to tell me animals engage in homosexuality because they chose too? Also homophobia is only found in one species, can you guess which one?
However that being said please visit the following link as it well help direct you to the many species who have homosexual members
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Once again though I will continue to prove to you how homosexuality is not a choice.

It is often found that in homosexual males their hormone production is much closer to that of a female than as a male. This wouldn't necessarily cause a person to become gay but it does lead to other things which will eventually have an effect on the orientation of the person but do play an important role. This link I will provide will show you in depth what I mean.

PLEASE VIEW AND READ THE ENTIRE LINK
http://www.apa.org...

One thing I would like to point out is in one of the earlier sub sections it says "Most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

TO THE VOTERS
So far my opponent has only supplied one piece of evidence in which I believe he has put the premise of his argument to ride upon. I responded to him with an ultimate question, a question with no definite answer, that is appropriate to his argument and is a reasonable thing we can assume.(Since we do not truly know if their is a deity.) My opponent is also yet to reply to my supplied information in the first round of the debate and really is not supplying any scientifically sound evidence to support his claims.

TO THE PRO
I look forward for the continuation of this debate and hope you can fully respond to all of my points with a valid argument. I hope you have prepared for a debate but quite frankly you have put yourself in a hard one to win and I suppose your courage does earn you respect however my real intention is not to win this debate but to show to you that homosexuality is not a choice and people wouldn't choose to be the outcasts of society and hated by very many people. I guess I just want you to respect the differences in people especially things that are out of our own control such as our gender, race, and yes sexual orientation.

Thank you
Cowboy0108

Pro

1. I am never going to change my opinion on the issue. It goes against my religion, Christianity, and I know psycologists who specifically say that, despite popular opinion, there is no concrete evidence supporting this idea, the only "evidence" is completely biased information recording how some people are different, even though many people with these same differences, even more different, are not homosexual.
2. The primary point made, isn't a change in chromosome, but a different amount of chemicals. Everyone has a different amount of chemicals as no one is the same. I am willing to concede that some boys may be more feminine than others, but they still choose to be gay. (I know many feminine boys that aren't gay and a masculine girl who pretended to be gay for the attention no doubt, but is now straight as an arrow.) The personality may be different, but crossing that line is always and will always be, a moral choice.

I am going to keep it short as I do not like to debate this topic, particularly over the computer, since this is a topic people will just believe what they believe, and they cannot be persuaded unlike issues like taxes, military, budget, and overall political affiliation.
Debate Round No. 2
alevan

Con

alevan forfeited this round.
Cowboy0108

Pro

My argument carries for if you come back. If not, oh well.
Debate Round No. 3
alevan

Con

alevan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Sitara 3 years ago
Sitara
I can speak to this. I am bisexual and I did not choose to be bisexual. I would die early just to be straight.
Posted by Liberalismisinsanity 3 years ago
Liberalismisinsanity
Homosexuality is a sin. Just like rape. Some people are born with a psychotic urge. They can overcome that. Liberalism and Homosexuality are similar.
Posted by CatholicTraditionalist 3 years ago
CatholicTraditionalist
no gays in heaven
Posted by alevan 3 years ago
alevan
I suppose that would be fine as long as you keep your promise that your not gonna be using religion to debate the morality of homosexuality
Posted by Cowboy0108 3 years ago
Cowboy0108
I am still considering accepting this debate. If I accept, understand that my arguments will be based on religion, not whether or not being gay goes against it, but how it is not possible that people are born gay given that religion.
Given that this is my only condition, accept it, then I will accept your challenge.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
alevanCowboy0108Tied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Not a very good debate on this issue. Con gave weak evidence. He should have not only pointed to evidence of homosexuality in other species, but argued that it would be inexplicable for humans to be an exception. The APA article vacillates on whether the cause is "nature or nurture." There are stronger references, including a genetic mechanism triggered in the womb. Pro, however, only quoted scripture, and made the very weak argument that God wouldn't make the behavior other than a choice. That's a belief about the nature of God, not proven as fact. Pro could have cited the ambivalence in the APA article and claimed Con didn't meet the burden of proof. As it is, Con's weak science prevails over unsupported religious belief. Con's citing the Pope was a good counter. Con's forfeit loses conduct.
Vote Placed by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
alevanCowboy0108Tied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: FF conduct to pro, but in the few rounds Con said something, it was far more compelling than Pro. Pro cited bible verses, did not really debate.
Vote Placed by wiploc 3 years ago
wiploc
alevanCowboy0108Tied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Persuasion: Secondguy dropped all arguments. Conduct: Firstguy forfeited rounds.